62 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

APG and MAGSHOT just shouldn't benefit from any cooldown quirks or skilltree nodes.

They need to be at a set damage per second, and a hsl of 4 or 5 , so sync firing causes a little more heat.

We're talking about a 270 meter 1/2 ton AC2, with high velocity and pinpoint accuracy.

As usual, the problem is boating.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i don't know about AP since i don't use clan mechs but i find that Magshot has a trade off when comparing them to standard MGs. they have the same tonnage and roughly DPS. the Magshot does have longer range and its damage is all in one shot but it also takes up 2 slots (so say replacing all the MGs on my Creal just wont work without doing some other kind of tweak to free up space. (i run 8 MGs on my Creal and i only have the space for maybe 6 Magshots and i would have to strip the AMS for the slots to keep the same tonnage in ammo.) also none of the mechs i have looked at with ammo quirks have them for the Magshot (mostly was looking at my Urbies)

[Heat Skink]

Saved By The Bell, on 01 July 2024 - 05:39 AM, said:

These creatures are danger for all kind of mechs.

Usual lights die too fast against them. Big guys cant hit them properly and die too.

A bit too much, like it were cheat vipers some time ago.


Streaks can help, yes.

except clan streaks damage was nerfed because it has more range.

[Drenzul]

Cyborne Elemental, on 17 July 2024 - 09:57 AM, said:

APG and MAGSHOT just shouldn't benefit from any cooldown quirks or skilltree nodes.

They need to be at a set damage per second, and a hsl of 4 or 5 , so sync firing causes a little more heat.

We're talking about a 270 meter 1/2 ton AC2, with high velocity and pinpoint accuracy.

As usual, the problem is boating.

So the problem is a highly accurate 270m range, 28 alpha on a light?
Honestly less worried about Warthogs than say a PIR-B with 4HMLs + 4MGs....
40 alpha + 150kph speed + tiny target.
or for just 5 tons more, a Arctic wolf with ECM + 2HMLs + 4SRM6s, Not as pin-point sure,
but harder to kill and if you've already taken a few hits, don't even need to aim, just SRM crit
fishing.

Boating is just the easy option, doesn't mean its the best option.

[1453 R]

I am sharply reminded of when PGI dropped the Piranha and the forums exploded in nerd flames for, like...a whole *** year over a light 'Mech that could sling twelve machine guns at once. Hell, people still carp about the Doomfish being Ohh Pee. These days people (mostly, sometimes) just Shoot The Damn Fish(C) and move on with their day.

Sure, fourteen APG is significantly scarier than twelve machine guns. The Adder is also twice the size and half the agility of the Doomfish without all that much extra in the way of durability. It's a short-range ambush predator that only really excels when it gets the drop on unwary targets. Don't be an unwary target, especially in ground you know is good for concealing ambush predators. if you're in a tight warren like the middle of Polar Highlands or anywhere on the map in River City or Solaris, you know to keep a gimlet eye out for AP-bristlin' Adders. See one, weather the first few salvoes without panicking, blow its yabbos off.

Same answer as the Doomfish - see it, aim at it, shoot it, and try to avoid letting it get the drop on you. If it gets the drop on you anyways, then you done got outplayed and the Adder pilot deserves their munchies.

Edited by 1453 R, 22 July 2024 - 04:16 PM.

[w0qj]

Just in: Cicada CDA-M(TSP): 10xMagshot + JJ, goes at 100+ kph!
Is this IS's answer to the Clan Adder ADR-W(L)?

https://mwomercs.com...-supporter-pack

First, it was boating MG's (Piranha et al).
Now, it's boating...

Edited by w0qj, 24 July 2024 - 09:38 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

I don't think that makes it any better. Can we stop with the power creep?

[Drenzul]

Is there power creep?

I don't think the warthog is actually that powerful. Its just easier to play well.

One of the things I actually like about this game, despite having come back from a nearly 10 year
break, I actually found that most of my original mechs are actually still viable with a bit of rebuilding.

I've got a few light mechs which can happily core assaults from behind in a single volley, my warthog can't
do that and is slower and has no ecm.... 2HML + 4SRM 6 in the back from close range is far more
worrying to me. Warthog has great sustained fire, but unless its duelling other lights, it hasn't got the armour
or speed to sustain that vs heavier mechs. Literally the only mechs I have any real problem with gauss WHs
is other lights and those are generally faster so can run away.

[Ignatius Audene]

15 DPS with good not ez to track pin point and strong armor quirks.YES!. U dont even need to think fighting a good pilot in this as a light for example.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 25 July 2024 - 08:47 AM.

[Drenzul]

DPS is kinda irrelevant for a light unless only fighting other lights... cos you really shouldn't be exposing yourself for long enough for it to matter. Otherwise you are just going to lose what little armour you have very very quickly.

This sounds more like a problem with you running off solo tbh. Warthogs are very strong 1v1. This game isn't balanced around 1v1. They are far weaker in group fights where if they try and use that dps they can be focused down. Lights generally value burst damage much more highly and they can pop out, fire and relocate without taking return fire.

Warthog is a very good mech, but I wouldn't say its even the best light mech.

[Saved By The Bell]

magshot-gauss lights so arrogant now, they even dont afraid streaks

more streaks, more streaks

[Swamp Ass MkII]

Unlike a flew, a warthog is MUCH easier to hit, and honestly does not have that much armor. Sure, they can brawl a bit, try hitting in the face with a solid alpha.

Yeah, I'll give that Flack Viper a run... hmmm...

[Ignatius Audene]

Drenzul, on 25 July 2024 - 08:59 AM, said:

DPS is kinda irrelevant for a light unless only fighting other lights... cos you really shouldn't be exposing yourself for long enough for it to matter. Otherwise you are just going to lose what little armour you have very very quickly.

This sounds more like a problem with you running off solo tbh. Warthogs are very strong 1v1. This game isn't balanced around 1v1. They are far weaker in group fights where if they try and use that dps they can be focused down. Lights generally value burst damage much more highly and they can pop out, fire and relocate without taking return fire.

Warthog is a very good mech, but I wouldn't say its even the best light mech.

i know how to pilot lights. But this weapon doesn't have a lock on like streaks and the velo is instant. So its just an 300m radius of light leg death and since u are its natural prey good luck avoiding him over the match and still do something. Once hit and u are crippeled a 2nd hit and its gone. 'Unlike other weapon system this is on a platform fast enough so predictingand avoiding its posittion is hard. And its not the stare xpl type of dps. With 1,8 secs cooldown, its not uncommon u can get a 2nd shot out before there is cover available. Sure the warthog is no atlas hp wise, but we still talking 50 tonners level of armor).

This role was once for covered for example bye the two snub lights. Only this is double the dps, harder to spot, faster velo, easy to get a 2nd shoot in because of faaaaaster cooldown and less heat. Sure that is not a direct comparision, but i think u can notice a scheme.


Especilly since there isnt only potato que, but stuff like fp where currently 4th wave often has like 7+ warthogs (that should tell something alone) and u need to engage.

[Drenzul]

Ignatius Audene, on 29 July 2024 - 04:25 AM, said:

i know how to pilot lights. But this weapon doesn't have a lock on like streaks and the velo is instant. So its just an 300m radius of light leg death and since u are its natural prey good luck avoiding him over the match and still do something. Once hit and u are crippeled a 2nd hit and its gone. 'Unlike other weapon system this is on a platform fast enough so predictingand avoiding its posittion is hard. And its not the stare xpl type of dps. With 1,8 secs cooldown, its not uncommon u can get a 2nd shot out before there is cover available. Sure the warthog is no atlas hp wise, but we still talking 50 tonners level of armor).

This role was once for covered for example bye the two snub lights. Only this is double the dps, harder to spot, faster velo, easy to get a 2nd shoot in because of faaaaaster cooldown and less heat. Sure that is not a direct comparision, but i think u can notice a scheme.


Especilly since there isnt only potato que, but stuff like fp where currently 4th wave often has like 7+ warthogs (that should tell something alone) and u need to engage.

Magshot/Gauss is not instant. It has a definite velocity. Its just at 300m, minimum lead needed no matter how fast they are going.
Of all the warthogs I see, somewhere between 50-66% are running gauss. If it was that OP you wouldn't still get the machine-gun warthogs, let alone that kinda %.

Warthogs are absolutely designed to take down other lights, that is their main design role to guard the assaults/heavies from back stabby lights.
Honestly shooting at a light's legs at over 100m with gauss normally results in a lot of the shells missing entirely between the legs unless you have a really clean shot.

Lot a people who don't really light playing lights take the warthog in FP just because its the most 'heavy-like' of the light mechs. So they get something they enjoy playing for minimal tonnage.

Also a lot of people take them for if the enemy pulls out a few stealth fleas etc.

Don't think they are much more dangerous to a well designed light than any other mech. Lights should either be faster than the warthog or able to brawl roughly as well or shouldn't be getting in a position to let the warthog engage them.

Sure you run round a corner in a flea to find a warthog in your face, you are gonna have a bad time....
Then again, you run round the same corner and there is a heavy/assault doing the same, good chance
you are about to have your leg alpha'ed off even quicker anyway if the pilot is halfway decent (a big if!)
same as a bad warthog pilot will equally fail.

Lots of tactics to make warthogs effective with a bit of team-play, just do need to play carefully around them
and don't let them get the drop on you.

[Dark Fenrir the Fluffy]

Yeah, you can dance around it all you want, the armor they (WARTHOGS) have always spreads the damage insanely well, the legs are the only weak point I have found and the damage and dps they do quite pinpoint, just makes this build OP. Warthog pilots can take on any mech and win. They are OP plain and simple with the AP GAUSS, WAY past the level of what piranhas ever reached at there popularity.

[RockmachinE]

Warthogs are pushovers, don't panic and just focus them down.

[Saved By The Bell]

gauss-magshot light can kill any enemy at 1 to 1, its not panic problem

[1453 R]

Saved By The Bell, on 30 August 2024 - 08:12 AM, said:

gauss-magshot light can kill any enemy at 1 to 1, its not panic problem

The Warthog has 14 AP Gauss, which each deal 2 damage every 2 seconds (before skills) for a naked DPS of 14. 14 DPS is high, but it is hardly outlandishly high. Many other 'Mechs can match or exceed this value, and most of them are more durable than an Adder. An assault 'Mech that loses a duel against a Warthog, provided both 'Mechs start fresh, is an assault 'Mech that deserved to lose for whatever reason. Hell, most heavy 'Mechs are going to take that duel as well.

The Warthog is indeed a powerful machine. As others have said, it excels as an escort 'Mech, dissuading enemy lights from harassing the Blob and acting as a capable hunter-killer when combat has worn targets down and it can pursue and finish off wounded quarry. Provided it is itself still fresh enough to do so. It cannot be safely ignored, but it is far from infallible, nor is it invincible in duels. Remember that most of a Warthog's ammunition is by necessity in its arms - blow its fragile and relatively easily targeted arms off quickly and you can often deprive the eight remaining guns of anything to shoot.

The 'Mech can be beaten. Much like the Doomfish, the first step is not to treat it as an Invincible God of Battle that cannot possibly be contested. Treat it like any other 'Mech whose firepower you have to respect, and act to reduce that firepower as quickly and efficiently as you can.

By not panicking, and shooting it. Preferably more than once. With big guns.

[RockmachinE]

Saved By The Bell, on 30 August 2024 - 08:12 AM, said:

gauss-magshot light can kill any enemy at 1 to 1, its not panic problem

You must be really bad at the game if you honestly believe this.

[Saved By The Bell]

Its your best argument?