88 replies to this topic

[martian]

TELEFORCE, on 15 December 2024 - 02:23 PM, said:

If there is an Invasion version available for preorder, I'm getting it! Now that the Viper has an Invasion skin, I want one for the Firemoth too!

Wait until January.

[kalashnikity]

Ttly, on 15 December 2024 - 03:52 AM, said:

https://mwo.nav-alph...115e680d_CUSTOM
Maybe that is the case on BT where not nearly everything runs on max armor like on this game, not to mention it looks bigger than the Flea. Oh and the fact that hitting something is an actual diceroll instead and speed tanking is more reliable than it is here through that. Oh right, and the fact that 1t of armor isn't as big of a value of a mech's entire HP as it is here.
But unless it has special endo steel structure/armor type AND special Light C-MASC that is only 0.5t instead of 1t it's not really going to be run viably like that.
I mean if you want to go from 3.5t of armor to 3t, you would have to shave off like 19 points here, you can go with 0 head armor and then 1 off from other limbs (which actually represents a decent amount of percentage of the armor just because this is a 20t by the way, unless they're gonna give it a lot of armor quirks for its size) sure. But again, what you're getting out of it is just what? 2 micro lasers worth of free tonnage or 1 C-ERSL, or 2 C-SRM tubes more.
And if you want to go to 2t of armor just to be lore accurate? Well you gotta take off 38 points (because C-FF armor) total more.
And this would be the sort of armor count it would have without quirks:
https://mwo.nav-alph...b29baefa_CUSTOM



Well 2SNPPC MASC Commando would involve using XL and no MASC, pretty much not leveraging much of that variant's strength, and is hardly worth it over something like the trial Firestarter that runs similar loadout, similar speed and with JJs too. Oh, also the MASC Vulcan is a thing.
As for 2C-ERPPC ACH, well the Shadow Cat exists.

The trade off is that snppc are FLPPD (sort of) and don't have the face time required for lasers. At mid tier and above, peaking out in a light (and waiting for laser burn to finish) can be a death sentence. Yes, it drops the MASC, and uses a smaller engine, but the trade off of being able to poke with 30 damage in a 25 ton mech, which still has enough accel/decel to get back behind cover before the enemy can acquire target and fire, is well worth it.

[kalashnikity]

It's a meme build, but the Fle-20 with a single ERPPC is hell on poking. You can hang out at 1000 years poking and are essentially uninhabitable except by luck.

Christmas commando lets you do a close range version that with 2xSNPPC

[Meep Meep]

kalashnikity, on 15 December 2024 - 02:56 PM, said:

It's a meme build, but the Fle-20 with a single ERPPC is hell on poking. You can hang out at 1000 years poking and are essentially uninhabitable except by luck.

Christmas commando lets you do a close range version that with 2xSNPPC

Pirates bane does it better with the er ppc and the spider 5d is good too as both have quirks better suited to it. The commando also does it well due to the -40% cooldown which puts your er ppc rof at 2 seconds.

lct-pb

sdr-5d

com-2d

[foamyesque]

kalashnikity, on 15 December 2024 - 02:53 PM, said:

The trade off is that snppc are FLPPD (sort of) and don't have the face time required for lasers. At mid tier and above, peaking out in a light (and waiting for laser burn to finish) can be a death sentence. Yes, it drops the MASC, and uses a smaller engine, but the trade off of being able to poke with 30 damage in a 25 ton mech, which still has enough accel/decel to get back behind cover before the enemy can acquire target and fire, is well worth it.

The D03 had a -30% duration quirk, which when you stack the standard -15% nodes on top, means the MPL/small laser build finishes a burn quite quickly. A snapshot's always better, but when your lasers only need to be on target for a third of a second or less, most of your exposure time is already in target acquisition and aim anyway. And you can always abort mid burn if you really need to be in and out quick.

A single SNPPC or dual LPPCs is viable (if undergunned) if you really want the snapshot, and you can keep the strengths of the chassis.

Dual snubs, though, is a gimmick that'll get folded in half as soon as anyone looks at you. The Urbie R80 does it far better at only five tons heavier: it's the same speed, better armed, has far more armour, and ECM on top. It even has good mounts and excellent hitboxes!

Edited by foamyesque, 15 December 2024 - 09:06 PM.

[ESC 907]

Man, I was SOOOO upsetti spaghetti when Russ had that less-than-complimentary recording leaked where he promised the Firemoth back in 2018, only to have it reneged. This is a 'Mech I have been wanting to see since I first started playing regularly in 2015.

[Hawk819]

ESC 907, on 15 December 2024 - 09:01 PM, said:

Man, I was SOOOO upsetti spaghetti when Russ had that less-than-complimentary recording leaked where he promised the Firemoth back in 2018, only to have it reneged. This is a 'Mech I have been wanting to see since I first started playing regularly in 2015.

I'm right there with ya.

[SafeScanner]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 15 December 2024 - 01:43 PM, said:

Things made for MW5 get back-ported because at that point it is easy money as half the work has been done already (concept art, modeling, UVs, camos, etc). It'd be a different story if we were still getting exclusive content.

martian, on 15 December 2024 - 02:11 PM, said:

I think that this is not difficult to explain: The Dasher is probably planned to be included in some future MechWarrior 5: Clans expansion pack. And since PGI has already created the model of the 'Mech, it can offer the 'Mech here too, in case some MechWarrior Online player would be interested in the 'Mech.

After all, this is exactly what PGI already did with the Hatchetman two years ago. Originally destined to appear in the Call to Arms expansion pack for the MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries game, PGI offered it as a 'Mechpack for the MechWarrior Online game too.

Ahh so Not "New" least you can scream "DLC confirmed" then i don't know not following MW5 clans if thats already been announced what ever i am rambing now

besides that i had a thought that damn mechs is going to be a nighmare on ridgelines the reds are gonna see you before you see them thanks to those very high mounts and distance to your cockpit (using Image as reference)

[martian]

SafeScanner, on 16 December 2024 - 12:16 AM, said:

Ahh so Not "New" least you can scream "DLC confirmed"

Nothing has been confirmed so far.

SafeScanner, on 16 December 2024 - 12:16 AM, said:

then i don't know not following MW5 clans if thats already been announced what ever i am rambing now

MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries has got a half dozen of expansion packs, so my guess is that MechWarrior 5: Clans will get some expansion packs too.

SafeScanner, on 16 December 2024 - 12:16 AM, said:

besides that i had a thought that damn mechs is going to be a nighmare on ridgelines the reds are gonna see you before you see them thanks to those very high mounts and distance to your cockpit (using Image as reference)

This is a matter of the right perspective: The Mist Lynx (Koshi) runs the majority of weapons also in its arms, but if you want to use them, your entire 'Mech must crest the ridgeline.

When it comes to the Fire Moth (Dasher) a half of your 'Mech can stay behind the ridgeline.

[Stonefalcon]

LordNothing, on 13 December 2024 - 06:45 PM, said:

idk, they say its not possible, but they have done events in eq that pushes top speeds into the 200s easy, and i never had a problem.

And now you all know why the speed event occurred.

My only question is will the Alt-G variant come in?MASC + Supercharger for 250KPH armed with 4 Heavy Medium lazors.

Edited by Stonefalcon, 16 December 2024 - 06:38 PM.

[kalashnikity]

Meep Meep, on 15 December 2024 - 03:51 PM, said:

Pirates bane does it better with the er ppc and the spider 5d is good too as both have quirks better suited to it. The commando also does it well due to the -40% cooldown which puts your er ppc rof at 2 seconds.

lct-pb

sdr-5d

com-2d

thanks for the tips!

[Meep Meep]

foamyesque, on 15 December 2024 - 08:47 PM, said:

A single SNPPC or dual LPPCs is viable (if undergunned) if you really want the snapshot, and you can keep the strengths of the chassis.

You can fit three lppc with ease and still get max engine and masc.

com-d03

It's a great masc poker and if you max your heat skills you can fire for longer than you can typically expose.

[foamyesque]

Yeah, you can fit a third with an XL, but then you're a slow XL IS light. MASC helps, but you can't stunt like a Flea does. The unique point of the chassis is being able to be a zombie light, after all; if you're not taking advantage of that, what's the point of using the D03 in the first place?

[Ttly]

Anyway really though, what sort of quirks is the Dasher going to have?
The Flea for example doesn't have that much quirks on the MASC variants, only on the non-MASC ones, because that's how strong MASC is.
The Piranha doesn't have much as well, though its main point being hardpoint count, though I'd argue it could use more ammo/heat quirks.
The Locust does have a lot of quirks, but well, it needs them as it doesn't have the weight savings from C-MGs and or access to micro lasers.
The Fire Moth? It's even faster than the Flea, and has cXL engine. If it's going to have strong quirks, then wouldn't you just get a Flea+1? But then you could go with no/little quirks and people would probably complain about how they couldn't make use of the speed other than ramming the enemy and blowing themselves up.
Oh also something something map size and how moving at 200kph is overkill just like the SDR-5V's absurd jump jet capacity.

Edited by Ttly, 17 December 2024 - 02:45 AM.

[martian]

Ttly, on 17 December 2024 - 02:40 AM, said:

Anyway really though, what sort of quirks is the Dasher going to have?

We do not know.

Usually, PGI publishes the 'Mech quirks list right before the preorder period beginning.

[Void Angel]

I like how a mechanical limitation of the game engine becomes "cope" when certain people don't like something.

Clantech also plays differently than IS tech. Take the Clan Wolfhound out and compare with the Grinner. They're the same chassis with the same capabilities, but much different 'mechs. I'm looking forward to the new chassis, even though I can't really play right now. =]

[Ttly]

Void Angel, on 17 December 2024 - 06:08 AM, said:

I like how a mechanical limitation of the game engine becomes "cope" when certain people don't like something.

Clantech also plays differently than IS tech. Take the Clan Wolfhound out and compare with the Grinner. They're the same chassis with the same capabilities, but much different 'mechs. I'm looking forward to the new chassis, even though I can't really play right now. =]

Well for Grinner/WLF-C the really big difference is access to stealth armor/heavy lasers/weapon sustain because the Grinner has heat quirks for once then yeah sure, they're not that similar. And really? The "cope" part I had on #2 was just in regard of me looking up reasons from old posts as to why they weren't a thing already for a 12 year old game, you putting it up here is just being petty, and really assumptious to think I dislike them, me speculating that people aren't going to do well in it doesn't come from that either, it's just that MASC mechs naturally has higher skill floor (and ceilling) for once just from the fact that it has one, and well, I don't see them being that popular despite their effectiveness outside of ECM Shadow Cat spammers sniping.

Anyway, here on the Dasher, you get being faster than the Flea/Locust, and cXL, and if it's comparing to the Flea, well if it's already "better" in that regard, what about on its other department? Is it not only going to be faster but also more armor quirks? Real weapon quirks instead of none? I mean the Flea itself already has little/none on the MASC variants, and if the Dasher is going to follow that trend, so will it, otherwise it's powercreep and stuff, granted I wouldn't mind more lights getting buffed to "catch up" in that case albeit at the trickle drip pace of monthly updates, it would take might as well be forever.

martian, on 17 December 2024 - 06:02 AM, said:

We do not know. Usually, PGI publishes the 'Mech quirks list right before the preorder period beginning.

Well yeah, it's called speculating. I mean you can just go look around Sarna to check the sort of loadout it would have (even if on stock configuration, at least it'll give an idea of the hardpoint count if nothing else) and mess around the MechDB's custom builder to see what sort of numbers this thing would have already. And then compare it to other mechs that runs similar loadouts with similar playstyle (ie LRM Locust to the LRM Fire Moth, ECM Flea to the Aletha, etc.) and the game's balancing history/statements regarding it (for example, that Tiyos said it'll have Mist Lynx level agility and a nerfed MASC).
Granted we won't know if it'll get unique equipment like a 0.5t special C-MASC instead of a 1t one, etc. But still.
I mean look at this: https://mwo.nav-alph...115e680d_CUSTOM
You could mess around on this thing and ask stuff like: "Oh so that's the sort of damage, armor, and ammo count the Prime variant would have! Is it going to have as much quirks as the SRM/LRM Locust (LCT-3S/1M) or the Romeo-5k Flea too?" And then go "Oh, well if it's going to have as much quirks then it's a power creep of the Locust/Flea isn't it?" or something followed by argument such as bla bla bla but it has bigger hitbox (something that can be vaguely assumed just from the screenshot for once), bla bla bla less agility, bla bla bla but it has MASC, so on. Which would've been way more productive than "Oh wow, thanks PGI for adding the nostalgia bait vehicle that I remember running for only couple times back on MechWarrior 2, I love it despite not being able to play it!" times ten.

Edited by Ttly, 17 December 2024 - 09:17 AM.

[Void Angel]

Ttly, on 17 December 2024 - 07:36 AM, said:

Anyway, here on the Dasher, you get being faster than the Flea/Locust, and cXL, and if it's comparing to the Flea, well if it's already "better" in that regard, what about on its other department? Is it not only going to be faster but also more armor quirks? Real weapon quirks instead of none? I mean the Flea itself already has little/none on the MASC variants, and if the Dasher is going to follow that trend, so will it, otherwise it's powercreep and stuff, granted I wouldn't mind more lights getting buffed to "catch up" in that case albeit at the trickle drip pace of monthly updates, it would take might as well be forever.

It'll depend on its hardpoints and architecture. It doesn't have to be better or worse than the Flea to be a viable offering - just different. With the vast difference between the tech bases, particularly with small-tonnage energy weapons, I see plenty of space for that with the Fire Moth. How that will look in practice is more than I'll guess at. They may actually lower its max engine cap to compensate, or they may have found a work-around for the speed breaking the game engine. We'll really just have to see.

PS: If you didn't dislike like the reason given for the delay on the Fire Moth, you wouldn't have used a pejorative to describe it.

[Meep Meep]

foamyesque, on 17 December 2024 - 02:39 AM, said:

Yeah, you can fit a third with an XL, but then you're a slow XL IS light. MASC helps, but you can't stunt like a Flea does. The unique point of the chassis is being able to be a zombie light, after all; if you're not taking advantage of that, what's the point of using the D03 in the first place?

With 621m optimal why would you need a zombie fit? Sure a standard engine will allow you to live a bit longer with the laser fits when you knife fight but you are just as slow as with the lppc fit and easy meat for anyone that doesn't panic aim. But the greater question is why run it at all? There are other mechs that do what it does waaaay better so why not have some fun with it?

[foamyesque]

Meep Meep, on 17 December 2024 - 11:55 AM, said:

With 621m optimal why would you need a zombie fit? Sure a standard engine will allow you to live a bit longer with the laser fits when you knife fight but you are just as slow as with the lppc fit and easy meat for anyone that doesn't panic aim.

You don't. But if you're not doing a zombie fit, why are you running the DO3 in the first place? Take an Urbie or a Firestarter or a Raven or something. The D03 has the strengths of the Commando chassis in being small and difficult to hit properly, but if you're not doing a zombie the only other thing it really has to offer is... a big laser duration quirk?

Heck, for a triple LPPC build, you can do that on the COM-1D and be basically as fast (~6kph slower with full speed tweak) as the D03 under MASC and still have full armour. And better quirks for the PPCs to boot.