176 replies to this topic

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 21 December 2024 - 01:34 PM, said:

Will it help?

In theory, it should help.

MrMadguy, on 21 December 2024 - 01:34 PM, said:

This is the biggest question for me now. Because if it won't - then there is no reason for me to keep playing. Tier 4 - is noob tier. Players with 0 skill should play here. If matches are so hard here, then why do you think Tier 5 would be better?

Tier 4 is not a noob Tier.

Each Tier reflects player's in-game performance - not only skill, but 'Mechs and their loadouts, tactics, map knowledge, situational awareness, etc.

[MrMadguy]

martian, on 21 December 2024 - 01:45 PM, said:

Tier 4 is not a noob Tier.

Each Tier reflects player's in-game performance - not only skill, but 'Mechs and their loadouts, tactics, map knowledge, situational awareness, etc.

It's noob Tier, because, as I know, new players start there. And if they're truly new, they would stay there for long time, cuz Cadet bonus wouldn't help them.

[foamyesque]

MrMadguy, on 21 December 2024 - 12:46 PM, said:

Why it happens so slowly?

Because, according to Jarl's, you aren't actually doing as bad as you say you're doing.

[MrMadguy]

foamyesque, on 21 December 2024 - 07:50 PM, said:

Because, according to Jarl's, you aren't actually doing as bad as you say you're doing.

Jarl's doesn't show current season. I do my best to improve it, but W/L is still around 0.5. It has never been that bad. Prior to that I wasn't expected to carry my team. I.e. no matter how bad my own match was - my team was winning anyway. So, W/L was still ~1 no matter what. But for now situation is completely different. Something is really wrong with matchmaking. Because almost every match starts with something like 1:5 and no matter how I do - my team loses anyway, because enemies stomp us.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 December 2024 - 10:01 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

I floating Tier1-2 all time. I terrible suck this weeks. Because I refuse to run for others, who run for others, who run for light.

Hope, you feel better now.

[Void Angel]

MrMadguy, on 21 December 2024 - 10:32 AM, said:

It's just warning. You can keep pretending, that everything is ok and that it's my fault. That I'm idiot, yeah. But I'm 100% serious. There are many players like me. They just aren't vocal enough to tell real truth.

MrMadguy, on 21 December 2024 - 12:46 PM, said:

Why it happens so slowly? If I'm obviously the worst player in this game, then may be it would be reasonable to just move me to Tier 7 already?

Defensive whining with begged questions and straw men isn't doing you any favors either. There are a handful of players like you; and they have been predicting MWO's imminent demise for TEN YEARS. You're not a prophet, you're not courageously sounding the alarm - you're not even correct about how the matchmaker works. You are. just. whining. And raging about the game and at the players who really would help you - if you wanted help. But you don't want help, and you don't want to "save the game." You just want to scream about a matchmaker that you do not - and do not want to - understand, all in order to salve your ego.

Sure, sure, you did 1400 damage for only 3 kills with LRMs that one time. Good for you; it wasn't terribly hard. And it's absolutely not proof that you're being punished by the mean matchmaker, having bad games because it saddles you with bad teammates - even though you're really so much better.

The reason your performance, not the matchmaker, has decreased since the Clan Invasion days is that you refuse to learn. Literally, and explicitly: "I don't need that, I play what I want, and if I fail the 'mech is gimped!" We've seen that just in this thread - and in all the duplicate threads you've made every few months before this. You didn't adapt to changes in the game, you didn't learn how to play better, and you've made it very clear that you don't want to start now. You want the game to cater to your arbitrary wants, without any effort on your part to actually work within the game's systems to succeed.

I'll say it again: The matchmaker is working. It is moving you toward the rating that you deserve, and the only reason you're mad is that you incorrectly think you're better - despite being unwilling to do the work to become so.

[MrMadguy]

Void Angel, on 22 December 2024 - 12:40 AM, said:

Defensive whining with begged questions and straw men isn't doing you any favors either. There are a handful of players like you; and they have been predicting MWO's imminent demise for TEN YEARS. You're not a prophet, you're not courageously sounding the alarm - you're not even correct about how the matchmaker works. You are. just. whining. And raging about the game and at the players who really would help you - if you wanted help. But you don't want help, and you don't want to "save the game." You just want to scream about a matchmaker that you do not - and do not want to - understand, all in order to salve your ego.

Sure, sure, you did 1400 damage for only 3 kills with LRMs that one time. Good for you; it wasn't terribly hard. And it's absolutely not proof that you're being punished by the mean matchmaker, having bad games because it saddles you with bad teammates - even though you're really so much better.

The reason your performance, not the matchmaker, has decreased since the Clan Invasion days is that you refuse to learn. Literally, and explicitly: "I don't need that, I play what I want, and if I fail the 'mech is gimped!" We've seen that just in this thread - and in all the duplicate threads you've made every few months before this. You didn't adapt to changes in the game, you didn't learn how to play better, and you've made it very clear that you don't want to start now. You want the game to cater to your arbitrary wants, without any effort on your part to actually work within the game's systems to succeed.

I'll say it again: The matchmaker is working. It is moving you toward the rating that you deserve, and the only reason you're mad is that you incorrectly think you're better - despite being unwilling to do the work to become so.

Learning to play video games? Is it some sort of useful skill, that would pay off IRL? If not, then why should I become pro gamer? Not all players are streamers. And I don't even talk about E-Sport. That is for very small % of players.

It's warning, because there is simple principle. If you as game dev design game for small % of your playerbase - you end up with this small % of playerbase. I'm average player. Jarl's clearly shows it. I have 51% rating. While it's also not super accurate, as AvgMS can also be as relative, as W/L is, but at least it's something. Average players are majority. If game is unbearable even for average players, then I have bad news for it. It can count on 10% of playerbase max.

I clearly understand, that devs have abandoned development of this game. Because their initial goal - was to make MW5 instead, that is more reasonable, as PVE game suits much wider auditory. So, they simply used MWO to pump money from us. And they still do it. But now it's more outright, than it was back in old days. May be we should save MWO? I don't ask something extraordinal. We already have all tools to do it. Just make sure, that players are distributed more evenly among teams according to PSR. Why it's so hard?

[Void Angel]

Again, this is a straw man, and you're trying to use it to beg a question - this is dishonest, and you should not argue this way. No one told you to become a "pro gamer," and pretending they did is a lie. Heck, you don't even realize how badly you've just embarrassed yourself. You are literally blaming the matchmaker for creating bad matches and unfairly tanking your match results - and then you say "why should I learn to play the game? That's just insane. You are the reason you have bad matches.

"PGI always just wanted to make MW5, so they milked MWO for the money," is not just a lie - it's a recycled lie. You're not even making up your own falsehoods! People told the same lie about IGP's shoddy "MechWarrior Tactics" game^*, and about Transverse, too. Similarly, now you're presenting self-contradicting fantasies as truth! Which is it? Is the game not balanced correctly (and thus your refusal to play what works is the problem,) or is the matchmaker somehow doing things that it is literally not able to do in order to create bad matches just for you? Seriously, pick a fantasy and stick with it - I'm annoyed at trying to figure out which one of you I'm talking to.

And your whole thought process about why you think the matchmaker is "broken" is one of the longest-recognized logical fallacies in the history of humankind. The Book of Job was written between the 7th and 4th centuries BCE - and in it, Job's friends use your exact logic to claim that Job had done something evil: because obviously bad things were happening, thus he must be getting punished. It's a stupid argument of literally Biblical proportions.

Don't think that you're making any points by shotgunning nonsense at us. What you are demanding is that PGI use resources that are not available to add a layer of matchmaker coding that may not be useful, and isn't even a standard for the industry. And you are doing this - and all of your previous nonsense arguing - just to avoid the fact that you are terrible at this game because you do not wish to learn how to play it. If I don't learn the rules and strategies of any game, I can expect to be trounced - and you get trounced in MWO because you have chosen not to learn.

At the end of the day, everything you've claimed is false. You're not "sounding a warning;" the matchmaker isn't broken; PGI isn't syphoning off some imaginary pot of money that they owe to MWO in order to make Clans - and you are definitely, definitely not an average player. You rely on your own subjective stories even when it's explained to you that there are literally no mechanisms in the matchmaker to do what you're claiming it does.

What all of this boils down to is written right in your forum signature - you think that you are entitled to win, and that bad matches are a moral crime against you. And that's just not going to fly with the people who use grown-up logic.

*: IGP was rumored to have used profits from MWO to fund development of the Battletech gacha game no one wanted, but this was never proven to my knowledge - and in grown-up land, we have to prove things we say to accuse people.

Edited by Void Angel, 22 December 2024 - 03:38 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I didn't read all 5 pages, but in a nutshell, the OP seems to be complaining that it's hard to get all the challenges or loot bags completed because it's based around damage done and match score, and his is typically lower because he's not a Tier 1 player. He's fine with that. But it would at least be better if he actually faced weaker opponents more his skill level and blames the matchmaker for not doing that.

The issue might be that there just aren't enough players in the queue that are worse players to produce this result. Consider that the better players (say tier 1-2) are more likely to play the game and be in the matchmaker at any given time. Also consider that the best players tend to play in groups at least some of the time. We all know that those that play in groups are more likely to win (regardless of tier) because of the coordination and communication of those groups. These are the players more likely to have a positive w/l ratio.

Perhaps some events can be tweaked so it's not always about winning a match, but playing in x number of them, win or lose. I can sympathize with the OP on this point at least. If you're not that great of a player or get bad matches, it may take you a long time to get all the loot bags. I have mostly mediocre matches with some really bad ones and occasionally a really good one.

As far as events go though, players tend to play more seriously for events such as this. Plus, some of the population is doing the faction play event. The OP is probably just going to have to switch mechs or loadouts or playstyles to find something that is more effective. It doesn't have to be meta builds--I don't play meta--but it has to be effective enough while being fun enough. And time of day also has a big impact on what kinds of players you are matched with, and what servers you play on might also contribute.

[BlueDevilspawn]

A couple of facts to present -
1. The most populous tiers are 5 and 4. Something like just under 50% of the population is tier 5. Small population mainly affects tier 1s.
2. Noobs start their tier 3/4 of the way through tier 5. No one starts in tier 4. Therefore, OP being in tier 4 is a reflection of movement and probably accurate for his skill level. PSR/matchscore working as intended.

[Void Angel]

TheCaptainJZ, on 22 December 2024 - 10:13 AM, said:

I didn't read all 5 pages, but in a nutshell, the OP seems to be complaining that it's hard to get all the challenges or loot bags completed because it's based around damage done and match score, and his is typically lower because he's not a Tier 1 player. He's fine with that. But it would at least be better if he actually faced weaker opponents more his skill level and blames the matchmaker for not doing that.

He's not worried about the event; he's just playing bad builds, refusing to learn anything, and insisting the matchmaker is broken because he has bad matches, and his Jarl's isn't high enough to reflect his self-image. He makes these complaint threads every few months...

[MrMadguy]

TheCaptainJZ, on 22 December 2024 - 10:13 AM, said:

The issue might be that there just aren't enough players in the queue that are worse players to produce this result.

Bingo! But what you can't understand - is that it's dead loop. Not enough players = bad matchmaking = players quit = even fewer players play this game = even worse matchmaking. I pointed at this problem 10 years ago, when situation wasn't so bad, as it's now. We still had plenty of time to fix things. And fix is actually very simple. Yet all devs in this world hate this simple solution. Mostly because all F2P games work according souvenir shop principle: if you're "bad" player - you should pay for things, instead of actually earning them via playing the game. Famous "git gut" and "streamers can do it - so you also should" are usually used as excuses to push this faulty design. And it's usually better for devs to close project, than to make "good" game instead. Because devs always have fear, that if game would be good by default - players wouldn't be motivated enough to pay for it.

You should clearly understand one thing. I don't play this game. Technically, I've quit. Sometimes I play it during big events, when I'm bored. But I no longer play it continuously. Major reason - bad matchmaking. And problem is - it doesn't improve. It only becomes worse and worse with time. And it's clean indicator, that number of players playing this game decreases and decreases. For now I already see some players in almost every match. I remember just 2 of them, but that's because they have memorable nicknames. May be there are much more.

Edited by MrMadguy, 22 December 2024 - 11:40 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Void Angel, on 22 December 2024 - 03:37 AM, said:

Again, this is a straw man, and you're trying to use it to beg a question - this is dishonest, and you should not argue this way. No one told you to become a "pro gamer," and pretending they did is a lie. Heck, you don't even realize how badly you've just embarrassed yourself. You are literally blaming the matchmaker for creating bad matches and unfairly tanking your match results - and then you say "why should I learn to play the game? That's just insane. You are the reason you have bad matches.

"PGI always just wanted to make MW5, so they milked MWO for the money," is not just a lie - it's a recycled lie. You're not even making up your own falsehoods! People told the same lie about IGP's shoddy "MechWarrior Tactics" game^*, and about Transverse, too. Similarly, now you're presenting self-contradicting fantasies as truth! Which is it? Is the game not balanced correctly (and thus your refusal to play what works is the problem,) or is the matchmaker somehow doing things that it is literally not able to do in order to create bad matches just for you? Seriously, pick a fantasy and stick with it - I'm annoyed at trying to figure out which one of you I'm talking to.

I don't beg anything. What I try to say - is that any "git gut" argument always boils down to "If you want to play football - learn to play as Messi". Question is - why? Only reason to invest large amount of effort into learning something - to become pro and earn money via it. People study at university for several years to find good job and be paid well. Why should I learn to play video game? I play it as I can, as I want and as I like. Nobody should tell me, how I should play it. It's my business.

Lie about MWO release? I clearly remember that moment. At exact moment, when MWO announce trailer was released - it was expected, that MW5 announce should have happened instead. And it's obvious, why it happened. Devs didn't have enough money to develop MW5 back then. PVP games are much easier to develop and therefore more profitable. When you make PVE game - you ask 50, 60, 70$ for whole game. When you make PVP game - you charge 50$ for every 'Mech pack, that is just 1% of whole content. So, if you would need to buy game as whole - it would cost 5000$ for you.

Edited by MrMadguy, 22 December 2024 - 11:53 PM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

MrMadguy, on 22 December 2024 - 11:50 PM, said:

I don't beg anything. What I try to say - is that any "git gut" argument always boils down to "If you want to play football - learn to play as Messi". Question is - why? Only reason to invest large amount of effort into learning something - to become pro and earn money via it. People study at university for several years to find good job and be paid well. Why should I learn to play video game? I play it as I can, as I want and as I like. Nobody should tell me, how I should play it. It's my business.

Lie about MWO release? I clearly remember that moment. At exact moment, when MWO announce trailer was released - it was expected, that MW5 announce should have happened instead. And it's obvious, why it happened. Devs didn't have enough money to develop MW5 back then. PVP games are much easier to develop and therefore more profitable. When you make PVE game - you ask 50, 60, 70$ for whole game. When you make PVP game - you charge 50$ for every 'Mech pack, that is just 1% of whole content. So, if you would need to buy game as whole - it would cost 5000$ for you.

Mate, nobody wants to tell you how to play a game in general or MWO specifically. People just try to let you know, that doing things your way - which is a totally legit approach in life - does not necessarily imply to be "rewarded" in a way that you deem "fair". There will and always will be situations and/or circumstances setting certain boundaries for goal-attainment and it is up to oneself how to adapt within them. So in the end it is all about "adapt" or "accept"!

Legitimizing why someone wants his specific, individual, hedonistic, snow-flakeish, [insert whatever subjective reason here] approach to something be rewarded the same way is a really odd pattern of behavior that develops in a lot of western societies lately, since it tends to forget that individual rights and liberties do not exist in a vacuum space, but are granted and sustained by a "frame-setting" society - implying to play by the rules most of the time.

Anyhow ... have some nice and heart-warming christmas (or any other) festivities with your beloved ones and just the best - especially good health - for 2024 and enjoy that beloved space-opera-mech-game the best way you can do.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 23 December 2024 - 03:05 AM.

[Void Angel]

MrMadguy, on 22 December 2024 - 11:50 PM, said:

I don't beg anything. What I try to say - is that any "git gut" argument always boils down to "If you want to play football - learn to play as Messi".

You are begging all the things. "Begging the question" is when you assume that something unproven is true, simply to support your argument - and that covers just about every argument you've made. Take MWO's development. Everything you've said was made up, sophistry, or both. The next thing you do after saying "I'm not begging the question" was to perpetrate yet another Straw Man. That's when you make up an argument to respond to that nobody made, instead of actually answering your opponent. Nobody has told you that you have to "play like a pro." You have said that before, and been corrected, so you have no excuse for repeating the falsehood. You were told that if you want your matches to improve, you should improve your skillset - to which you responded "no, no, no!"

Another fun fallacy is the Mot and Bailey defense. That's where someone says something unsupportable, like:

MrMadguy, on 22 December 2024 - 02:29 AM, said:

I clearly understand, that devs have abandoned development of this game. Because their initial goal - was to make MW5 instead, that is more reasonable, as PVE game suits much wider auditory. So, they simply used MWO to pump money from us. And they still do it. But now it's more outright, than it was back in old days.

and when they're challenged, they try to retreat to a more defensible position, like:

MrMadguy, on 22 December 2024 - 11:50 PM, said:

Lie about MWO release? I clearly remember that moment. At exact moment, when MWO announce trailer was released - it was expected, that MW5 announce should have happened instead. And it's obvious, why it happened. Devs didn't have enough money to develop MW5 back then. PVP games are much easier to develop and therefore more profitable. When you make PVE game - you ask 50, 60, 70$ for whole game. When you make PVP game - you charge 50$ for every 'Mech pack, that is just 1% of whole content. So, if you would need to buy game as whole - it would cost 5000$ for you.

which is not only incorrect, but also tries to pretend it's responding to my critique of the first quote. So not only did you repeat a lie about PGI supposedly "pumping" money from us to fund a new game - as if all the profits from MWO rightfully have to go to continued development, because reasons - you also tried to hide from the criticism that your accusation engendered.

Meanwhile, in the real world where facts happen, PGI didn't have enough money to develop either MWO or MW:3015! They needed a publisher for either option, and since they were trying to develop the game during the 2009 financial crisis, they couldn't get backing for a full PvE game - even from Microsoft, who still owned the IP. Now is the part where you say, "see, I was right, MWO wasn't their first choice!" And sure - that was the only true thing you said; but it doesn't prove that PGI has been sneakily squirreling away money for ten fracking years just to make MW5. And they didn't have to: EnadGlobal7 is their current publisher. PGI didn't fund MW5: Mercenaries or MW5: Clans by stashing money in their mattress - that's a lie made up by salty forum trolls, and you should stop repeating it.

What all of this dishonesty and shoddy thinking demonstrates is that you refuse to be swayed by the facts. You have decided that the matchmaker must be broken, because you are having bad matches - and your emotional desire to find a reason for that problem that does not rest with you is far stronger than your respect for truth. All of your nonsense flows from there.

"To give truth to him who loves it not, is merely to give him more multiplied material for misinterpretation."

[pbiggz]

You can boil this whole thread down to OP thinking he deserves to win more, being told if he wants to he needs to improve his game, then OP getting mad about gatekeeping while simultaneously denying that he wants to win more (which he manifestly does).

Its hard to have a conversation with someone who constantly lies about their own position whenever defending it becomes inconvenient, only to come back to it as though they never abandoned it only a few posts later.

Madguy, dont expect people to even want to talk to you when you're not even willing to acknowledge the same material reality as the rest of us. Lose your games or don't, you've been told many a time its in your hands, nothing has changed since the last time you made this thread, or the time before that, or before that, or before that.

[MrMadguy]

Back to Tier 3. But my W/L is still 0.55. I have to push 2x harder to compensate broken MM. This is exact problem, that is unfair. Why should I push 2x harder to compensate broken matchmaker, when other players just relax and get fun?

I have to use 'Mechs, that can deal lots of dmg before dying quickly. It's a little bit different approach, than using LRMs. Playing LRM boat is similar to playing Light 'Mech. You deal your dmg slowly, so patience is your friend. Playing 100dmg alpha 'Mech is a little bit different. You have to expose yourself and therefore die quicky, but at least you manage to deal enough dmg before dying.

Edited by MrMadguy, 24 December 2024 - 04:40 AM.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2024 - 04:29 AM, said:

Back to Tier 3. But my W/L is still 0.55. I have to push 2x harder to compensate broken MM. This is exact problem, that is unfair. Why should I push 2x harder to compensate broken matchmaker, when other players just relax and get fun?

Then do what other players do: Just relax and get fun in Tier 4 or Tier 5. Your playstyle is your own choice.

MrMadguy, on 24 December 2024 - 04:29 AM, said:

I have to use 'Mechs, that can deal lots of dmg before dying quickly. It's a little bit different approach, than using LRMs. Playing LRM boat is similar to playing Light 'Mech. You deal your dmg slowly, so patience is your friend. Playing 100dmg alpha 'Mech is a little bit different. You have to expose yourself and therefore die quicky, but at least you manage to deal enough dmg before dying.

See? You can make a good decision when you try.

And thanks for giving me a good laugh with this: "Playing LRM boat is similar to playing Light 'Mech."

[Void Angel]

You're not carrying your team. You're just using bad builds out of stubbornness and trying to compensate with effort. And - seriously - I'll hand it to you for sticking with the bit and working back up to T3. But it's not going to last, and it's not the matchmaker. Not at all.

PS: as a serious bit of advice, learn to play Lights and Mediums. Even if they never eclipse your existing favorite weight classes, knowing how they work will make playing the large 'mechs you currently run against smaller adversaries.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Void Angel, on 24 December 2024 - 05:26 AM, said:

PS: as a serious bit of advice, learn to play Lights and Mediums. Even if they never eclipse your existing favorite weight classes, knowing how they work will make you better at playing the large 'mechs you currently run against smaller adversaries.

Good advice.

I like to make sure I know what killed me. With the new mechs still coming out and quirk changes, it is helpful to know what is out there.
Recently I got lit up by an Ice Ferret. I spectated and then checked the end screen to see what it was. I knew I got killed by heavy mediums and the pilot that got me. Found out that you can have an IFR-J that sports 8xHML with a range of 310 meters and it can hit 171.4 kph. Understanding the mobility and that you can get backstabbed from out of seismic sensor range in less than 1.63 seconds is critical information.

And knowing is half the battle. The other half is hitting masc'ing and jump jetting lights or mediums that spend a lot of their time inside the geometry of your mech.

https://mwo.nav-alph...59bb7377_IFR-JL