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Can Matchmaker Be Even Worse?


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#121 martian

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 06:21 AM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 05:58 AM, said:

K/D fetish - is unhealthy behavior
Still hating light and medium 'Mechs that you can not kill easily?

LOL

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 05:58 AM, said:

K/D fetish - is unhealthy, when guys play PVP game PVE way, i.e. don't like to die.
You wrote probably the most comical post in this thread: Blaming enemy players who keep refusing to show up and stand still, in order for you to kill them ... Posted Image

So when you play MechWarrior Online (PvP), do you like to die? Or do you rather prefer to stay alive and keep contributing to your team's possible victory?

And, since you mentioned it: When you play MechWarrior 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 (all PvE), do you like to die and lose the mission?

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 05:58 AM, said:

Do you think it's correct way to play this game?
I would guess that many MWO players play to stay alive, kill enemy 'Mechs and win (or die trying) rather than to be killed and lose.

Edited by martian, 27 December 2024 - 12:41 PM.


#122 Void Angel

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 09:47 AM

View Postepikt, on 27 December 2024 - 04:46 AM, said:

I haven't read the whole thread (who is crazy enough?)


I am!

The Cicadas got some much-needed boosts a few months back, but they're still not overpowered death machines.

Edited by Void Angel, 27 December 2024 - 09:49 AM.


#123 Void Angel

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 10:01 AM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 05:58 AM, said:

K/D fetish - is unhealthy behavior, when guys play PVP game PVE way, i.e. don't like to die. Do you think it's correct way to play this game?


You don't see whole picture. It was something like 11:6 and then this guy killed 4 'Mechs one after one, turning it into 11:10. It's just wrong, when some player can solo-win match for his team. We had such problem back in poptart abuse times. One Victor could solo-win match for his team. Guess what? JJs were nerfed after that. ER-LL/ER-PPC mediums are harder to nerf. Because it's not MW4 and we don't have sized hardpoints. May be negative quirks? Devs refuse to do it even in case of Piranhas.


What a load of nonsense - you tell him he "doesn't see the whole picture," then proceed to demonstrate what that looks like! This statement is idiotic; you're propping up a Cicada as some kind of hyper-powerful death machine, and pretending that it's "wrong" for someone to get killing blows on damaged 'mechs at the end of the match! As if the Cicada just chugged a pot of coffee and insta-merked four fresh 'Mechs like the Flash or something - rather than finishing off damaged 'mechs as they tried to hunt him down. Are you trying to come across as a complete idiot?

Same thing with the poptart meta. No Victor was going to "solo-win" any match. I know, I was there; one poptart didn't make much of a difference. The problem with the poptart meta was that no other strategy could compete with it, giving the team with the most poptarts a distinct advantage - not because a poptarting Assault was some kind of Gundam pilot merking people left and right.

It's amazing how deeply you're willing to embarrass yourself just to keep arguing. You don't actually think that refusing to admit your many defeats makes you credible, do you? Seriously, if your builds suck that bad, and you refuse to learn anything to improve - go play one of the MechWarrior 5s! Both Mercenaries and Clans are excellent single-player games where you won't have any matchmaker to "persecute" you.

Edited by Void Angel, 27 December 2024 - 10:03 AM.


#124 Bassault

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 12:02 PM

Let's say 1 guy did solo carry the game... he must've made some very good decisions and have a significant amount of skill to do so. Why should he be barred from success if he does everything correctly and his opponents fail to stop him? It's a pvp game, a competition between players.

Edited by Bassault, 27 December 2024 - 12:08 PM.


#125 pbiggz

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 12:52 PM

View PostBassault, on 27 December 2024 - 12:02 PM, said:

Let's say 1 guy did solo carry the game... he must've made some very good decisions and have a significant amount of skill to do so. Why should he be barred from success if he does everything correctly and his opponents fail to stop him? It's a pvp game, a competition between players.


I mean its pretty cut and dry. In order for other people to win madguy sometimes has to lose, and madguy never wants to lose, therefore in his view anyone else winning is unfair, unacceptable, and illegitimate. Its the same thing he screamed to the heavens in the last thread where he claimed the matchmaker was making him lose. No matter what happens madguy is not allowed to win, and if you ask him about why he thinks that he'll deny it.

#126 MrMadguy

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 01:38 PM

View PostBassault, on 27 December 2024 - 12:02 PM, said:

Let's say 1 guy did solo carry the game... he must've made some very good decisions and have a significant amount of skill to do so. Why should he be barred from success if he does everything correctly and his opponents fail to stop him? It's a pvp game, a competition between players.

Very good decisions? Significant amount of skill? Playing ER-LL boat is as no brain, as playing poptart. Good thing - not all such players are successful. While may be they farm their own score, they gimp their team in most cases. Because they sit 1000 meters away and it's easy to avoid their fire, while their team lacks one player. Not all of them are sneaky enough to solo-kill half of enemy team. I didn't make screenshot, but my last match today was very similar. I'm not sure, how many kills that guy farmed, but he killed 2-3 my teammates before being killed by me. Again, yeah. He was that ER-LL sniper, who was sitting on a top of hill for whole match and then started to run away from 5-6 enemy 'Mechs. Thanks god, he wasn't Light, so it was easy to catch him. And such guys think, that they're skillful, cuz they play their own Rambo style, while in realty they actually non-participate.

But it's offtopic. We shouldn't discuss each and every case of abusing/exploiting something, that leads to one single player outplaying 23 others. What we discuss here - is that it shouldn't happen in Tier 3/4. Matchmaking should protect us from such abuse. Otherwise it's pointless.

#127 martian

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 01:56 PM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 01:38 PM, said:

Very good decisions? Significant amount of skill? Playing ER-LL boat is as no brain, as playing poptart.
How do you rate players running Clan assault Lurmboats? How much skill does it take?

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 01:38 PM, said:

Good thing - not all such players are successful. While may be they farm their own score, they gimp their team in most cases. Because they sit 1000 meters away and it's easy to avoid their fire, while their team lacks one player. Not all of them are sneaky enough to solo-kill half of enemy team. I didn't make screenshot, but my last match today was very similar. I'm not sure, how many kills that guy farmed, but he killed 2-3 my teammates before being killed by me. Again, yeah. He was that ER-LL sniper, who was sitting on a top of hill for whole match and then started to run away from 5-6 enemy 'Mechs. Thanks god, he wasn't Light, so it was easy to catch him. And such guys think, that they're skillful, cuz they play their own Rambo style, while in realty they actually non-participate.
I would say that if somebody gets 2-3 kills or more AND keeps 5-6 enemy 'Mechs busy, then he kinda participates.

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 01:38 PM, said:

But it's offtopic. We shouldn't discuss each and every case of abusing/exploiting something, that leads to one single player outplaying 23 others. What we discuss here - is that it shouldn't happen in Tier 3/4. Matchmaking should protect us from such abuse. Otherwise it's pointless.
No, MWO players - in Tier 3 and 4 - can employ various tactics. Your attempts to call various playstyles that you dislike "exploiting" and "abusing" can not change that.

Nobody is obliged to play the way that would let you kill him easily.

#128 MrMadguy

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM

View Postmartian, on 27 December 2024 - 01:56 PM, said:

How do you rate players running Clan assault Lurmboats? How much skill does it take?

I would say that if somebody gets 2-3 kills or more AND keeps 5-6 enemy 'Mechs busy, then he kinda participates.

No, MWO players - in Tier 3 and 4 - can employ various tactics. Your attempts to call various playstyles that you dislike "exploiting" and "abusing" can not change that.

Nobody is obliged to play the way that would let you kill him easily.

It's not skill. It's having fresh 'Mech at the end of match vs several damaged opponents, who are stretched due to having various speeds.

This is exact reason, why I don't like PVP. Too much room for abusing/exploiting, because devs can't do anything to fix it, so only thing they can do - to call it legit tactic.

No. I don't want to play game, where player X gets fun at expense of other players. It's, you know, unfair. If he doesn't respect other players, then may be it's HE, who should play against bots in PVE game then?

As soon, as event is completed - I'm done with this game.

#129 martian

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 02:34 PM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's not skill. It's having fresh 'Mech at the end of match vs several damaged opponents, who are stretched due to having various speeds.
LOL

So having a battered 'Mech "at the end of match vs several damaged opponents" would be a sign of a skilled player?

And of course, such "skilled player" should charge the entire enemy group head-on to prove his skill, right?

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

This is exact reason, why I don't like PVP. Too much room for abusing/exploiting, because devs can't do anything to fix it, so only thing they can do - to call it legit tactic.
Running light or medium 'Mechs is no "abusing/exploiting", no matter how many times you repeat it.

Arming 'Mechs with ER Large lasers is no "abusing/exploiting".

Refusing to park their light or medium 'Mechs in front of your assault 'Mech, so you can kill them, is no "abusing/exploiting".

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

No. I don't want to play game, where player X gets fun at expense of other players. It's, you know, unfair. If he doesn't respect other players, then may be it's HE, who should play against bots in PVE game then?
So instead of "you" adapting the game, you expect that everybody and everything will adapt to your playstyle, so you have an easy work with them? I am afraid that you will be disappointed, since this is not going to happen.

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

As soon, as event is completed - I'm done with this game.
As you wish.

Here are the links that you will need:

#130 Vxheous

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 02:49 PM

I lost braincells reading this thread

#131 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 03:10 PM

This is giving me "legging is dishonorable" vibes from previous mechwarriors. There's a BIG difference between an actual exploit (a bug/glitch that gives people advantages, that is, it is unintended behavior of the game) and exploiting the advantages of your build (high mobility + high range) against others who might lack the range, speed, or armor to really contend with you.

If the PGI considered it problematic, they would've looked into a way to fix it no different than they attempted with poptarts, otherwise it's fair game. I skimmed this, but no, the Cicada isn't OP, in fact I'd consider it pretty meh given how fragile it is thanks to its glass jaw. If you think it's OP you're only showing people the lack of skill you have.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 27 December 2024 - 03:11 PM.


#132 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 03:52 PM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

As soon, as event is completed - I'm done with this game.


It's as if I have read this line from you before ...

#133 An6ryMan69

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 05:32 PM

For the OP -the matchmaker is quite poor, but it CAN be worse than it usually is.

Just look at how it is when it is turned off because of EQ events...the game is pretty much unplayable.

Then it's literally full groups of elites vs random solo cadets...that's what's just inexcusable.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 27 December 2024 - 05:35 PM.


#134 pbiggz

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 07:07 PM

View PostAn6ryMan69, on 27 December 2024 - 05:32 PM, said:

For the OP -the matchmaker is quite poor, but it CAN be worse than it usually is.



Its really not that bad. People who think its really bad are ones who tend to be more eager to externalize their losses rather than trying to understand what actually happened in each match.

View PostAn6ryMan69, on 27 December 2024 - 05:32 PM, said:

Just look at how it is when it is turned off because of EQ events...the game is pretty much unplayable.

Then it's literally full groups of elites vs random solo cadets...that's what's just inexcusable.


Ah, that's your angle.

It's been literal years can you guys find a new boogeyman instead of continuing to imply everyone who has friends is a cheater?

Edited by pbiggz, 27 December 2024 - 07:08 PM.


#135 Arnetheus

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 09:56 PM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

This is exact reason, why I don't like PVP. Too much room for abusing/exploiting, because devs can't do anything to fix it, so only thing they can do - to call it legit tactic.

No. I don't want to play game, where player X gets fun at expense of other players. It's, you know, unfair. If he doesn't respect other players, then may be it's HE, who should play against bots in PVE game then?

As soon, as event is completed - I'm done with this game.


The levels of copium and entitlement are off the charts.
And all of this coming from a simple inability to recognize oneself being bad at some videogame, as if it's some unrecoverable stain on your character as a person.
Must come up with a dozen of lies and nonsensical takes as to why you are being "held down", instead of learning how things work.

By all the looks of it, you're the one who should stick to PvE games.

View PostMrMadguy, on 18 December 2024 - 02:28 AM, said:

I have been playing broken game for all those years. So, I guess, it's better to just do what other players do. To quit.


This was written on 18th^
Why this thread is still going on? It's clearly not good for your mental, according to your own words.

Edited by Arnetheus, 27 December 2024 - 09:56 PM.


#136 Davegt27

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 10:24 PM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's not skill. It's having fresh 'Mech at the end of match vs several damaged opponents, who are stretched due to having various speeds.

This is exact reason, why I don't like PVP. Too much room for abusing/exploiting, because devs can't do anything to fix it, so only thing they can do - to call it legit tactic.

No. I don't want to play game, where player X gets fun at expense of other players. It's, you know, unfair. If he doesn't respect other players, then may be it's HE, who should play against bots in PVE game then?

As soon, as event is completed - I'm done with this game.


Its rough out there
and if you say anything you get what I call shouted down
(basically players line up with baseball bats to take wacks at you, sort of like Airplane)


lol
finding ways to enjoy the game has become key for me but don't tell anyone what it is because well reasons

as a kid we made up our own rules for football, kickball and others the games where always fun
mostly because we made up the teams and we would object if the teams where unbalanced

I mean we played with ages 8 thru 16 (street football), we would never allow 2 top players on the same side

MWO you can some what mitigate the match making problems by making a group on 4 top players (or even just a group of 4 will do the trick)

one player even had a count of games won to how many lost but I think PGI made him take it down since he had well over 200 wins (I think)

MWO seems to celebrate every player that leaves the game (with the "get good")

its a Bizzaro MWO world

we used to say at least the mech on mech combat is good (well that was a mistake to say that out loud)

try to play just a few games a day it seems to ease the pain
take your best killers (like FP)

there is more advice just let us know
good luck

Edited by Davegt27, 27 December 2024 - 10:26 PM.


#137 MrMadguy

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Posted 27 December 2024 - 11:51 PM

Don't misinterpret what I say. I don't say, that ER-LL Lights/Mediums are illegal. What I say, is that playing against 93% rating players, who can solo-kill half of enemies and solo-win match for his team - is illegal. No matter, what build he uses. Is it poptart Victor, ER-LL Cicada or some sort of Piranha. It's about matchmaker, not build. And I don't want to "learn" to counter anything. Because abuses/exploits can only be countered via abuses/exploits. Would game be fun, if everybody would play poptart or ER-LL Light/Medium? No. It's arms race, that can't be won.

Again. I don't want to say, that such tactics are illegal. They're legal. Finding smart tactics to become top player - is 100% legal, yeah. I just try to say, that player, who uses them, should only play against players, who also do it - not seal club players, who play normally. It's not normal, that street football player should play against Messi. It's not fun, you know.

Yeah. Players, doing what they want and abusing/exploiting mechanics - is cancer of any online game. Street baseball example is actually good one. Back in old days, when we were playing with our friends via LAN, they were sitting near you and you could always tell them not to abuse unfun tactics. Like "No AWP" rule in CS, because camping and point'n'click insta-deaths aren't fun. Or "No bunker" rule in HL1. Unfortunately we can't do the same in online games.

TL;DR Not having amateur league and pushing amateur players into pro league instead - is wrong and has always been. This is major reason, why online PVP games flop.

Situation is actually even worse. Majority is sacrificed to satisfy minority. Once game has already flopped - it's pro players, who don't have enough opponents to play with. And, you know what? It's their problem. Wanna play in amateur league? It's you, who should learn to be amateur. Not me, who should learn to be pro. Forget about your pro tactics. And till then you should sit in 30min queues.

Edited by MrMadguy, 28 December 2024 - 12:28 AM.


#138 Void Angel

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Posted 28 December 2024 - 02:03 AM

No one claimed that you said those legitimate builds were illegal. That is a lie. In the world of honest people, you've said many things like:

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 01:38 PM, said:

We shouldn't discuss each and every case of abusing/exploiting something, that leads to one single player outplaying 23 others. What we discuss here - is that it shouldn't happen in Tier 3/4. Matchmaking should protect us from such abuse. [emphasis added]
So, you claimed that the matchmaker is "not protecting you" from the "abuse" of people using good builds, and using tactics you dislike - and that one player using these "abusive" tactics can outperform the rest of both teams combined. You can try to pawn off the first lie as just your opinion, but the second is an obvious falsehood that just... boggles the mind. You are literally making up or repeating a lie in every post now.

And then there's this whopper:

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 11:51 PM, said:

Situation is actually even worse. Majority is sacrificed to satisfy minority. Once game has already flopped - it's pro players, who don't have enough opponents to play with. And, you know what? It's their problem. Wanna play in amateur league? It's you, who should learn to be amateur. Not me, who should learn to be pro. Forget about your pro tactics. And till then you should sit in 30min queues.

You're lazy. And because you are also spoiled, you feel entitled to your laziness because you believe that you (and only you) have the right to succeed at a complicated game without spending any effort. But you're also dishonest, and not smart enough to conceal it - because that up there? That tipped your hand. You know why the matchmaker is set up the way it is; you know that it's the best compromise available between skill separation and matchmaking - given that people want to play with their friends. Barring groups actually would damage the game and drive people away, but you don't care about that - you just want easy matches so that you can feel skilled without being skilled.

You're trying to manufacture moral high ground by claiming that the matchmaker (which would work fine with more players, even by your self-serving standards) is "why online games flop," but that's just another lie. You made that up to justify your sense of entitlement, but you've been told in this very thread that many online games have a similar matchmaker (or no skill-based matchmaking at all) and are still doing fine. The real reason MWO has declined (not flopped) is that Faction Warfare wasn't engaging enough to serve its intended role as a progression endgame - but don't let facts distract you from your self-absorbed claims of victimhood!

It takes a Very Special kind of mind to suggest that punishing players for being better than you choose to be is a viable solution to anything. It's just the rationalization of a spoiled, coddled child: "Those people who learned to play instead of throwing forum tantrums should have to wait a half an hour per match! Yeah! They should learn to be crappy players like me - punishing people for getting better as they play couldn't have any negative consequences!" You honestly just flat-out claimed that because you are lazy and don't want to play better, other players should be punished with half-hour wait times for getting into Tier 1. No game would survive implementing your suggestion that the top players be punished in this way.

Good news! There is an Amateur League! It's called Tier5! It's you who should learn to be amateur - until then, you should sit in matches with your betters and be farmed like you deserve. The matchmaker is working as it should - and as intended.

#139 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 28 December 2024 - 09:18 AM

View PostArnetheus, on 27 December 2024 - 09:56 PM, said:

This was written on 18th^
Why this thread is still going on?


Because for some odd reason he has to finish the current event before finally quitting the game - but this time for real ... like the 2 or 3 times he wrote something to that effect before (and not just this year).

#140 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 28 December 2024 - 11:00 AM

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 11:51 PM, said:

TL;DR Not having amateur league and pushing amateur players into pro league instead - is wrong and has always been. This is major reason, why online PVP games flop.

I hate to break it to you, but some of the most successful PvP games actually had MORE relaxed matchmakers. One of which was Halo 2 where one of the developers from those days has actually been on record of saying SBMM has gone too far. Link

View PostMrMadguy, on 27 December 2024 - 11:51 PM, said:

Yeah. Players, doing what they want and abusing/exploiting mechanics - is cancer of any online game.

Thanks for proving me right about my feeling. TL;DR if PGI found it to be cancer (like they did with poptarts), they would've done something about it. It honestly just sounds like you want a PvP game to placate your ego like a power fantasy PvE game would and that's just not how it works if you aren't willing to adapt to the way the game is actually played.





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