136 replies to this topic

[martian]

nanashi0110, on 11 January 2025 - 06:01 PM, said:

By the way, when will this patch be available?

My guess would be on 21. I. 2025.

[w0qj]

Yeah, usually the 3rd Tuesday each month for MWO...

Really looking foward to this 21/1/2025 patch!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

CSJ Edward, on 12 January 2025 - 01:19 AM, said:

38 people just got laid off, since MW5 did not do as well as the publisher wanted. PGI should have stayed independent and focused on MWO. I love MW5, but it would not appeal to a younger audience. PGI needs to realize that it is only us Middle-aged players who are the audience.

......as one of those said middle-aged folks, this is such a stupid argument. The reason this game even has a healthy population is because of all the zoomers running around that have been playing this game since they were teenagers (or still are one). This game would likely have been dead long ago without a younger generation being turned to MWO so yeah, if they want to make a good game, it does have to appeal to people outside that stupid demographic you tried to lay out, but it also doesn't mean it has to sacrifice what you think it does.

martian, on 12 January 2025 - 01:57 AM, said:

I have got some bad news for you: Russ Bullock himself said that MWO is not making money. He continued with that not even buying all those 'Mechpacks, Legendary 'Mechs and all that other junk would not help.

To be clear, while he said that, it definitely isn't losing money or hemorrhaging money. It's still making a profit for them per their financials afaik. It just isn't making the big bucks. If it was losing them money it would've been shutdown.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 12 January 2025 - 11:39 AM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

If PGI had stayed independent, the last content to be put out would've been MW5 Mercs Heroes of the Inner Sphere DLC. The reason why so many hero mechs were dumped into one DLC was because they had no financial runway past that. Russ has stated as such publicly. So, being bought by EG7 gave them the ability to put out the full slate of DLCs we have today along with Clans and the ongoing content from MWO.
As to the implied statement that EG7 is the instigator behind the recent layoff, I don't know either way (none of us do). EG7 is the holding company so corporate statements will come out from EG7. Whether the layoffs are at their nudging or a decision by Russ, we can only speculate until someone confirms either way.
Finally, MWO is barely in the black. Russ has stated it makes all year less than what it did in a month at peak MWO. It gets updates because it pays for itself and in doing so keep around the MW fan base / playerbase for coming MW titles. That would be standard business practice. Even if it were losing money (barely), there would need to be a judgment call of whether to keep it up or shut it down, again due to keeping the playerbase around.

[martian]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 12 January 2025 - 11:39 AM, said:

To be clear, while he said that, it definitely isn't losing money or hemorrhaging money. It's still making a profit for them per their financials afaik. It just isn't making the big bucks. If it was losing them money it would've been shutdown.

Russ Bullock said pretty clearly that the "profit" from MWO is tiny.

I think that EG7 has kept MWO alive just to keep the fans of the MechWarrior franchise occupied between various MW5:Mercs expansion packs and before the MW5: Clans release.

The same situation just like ten years ago: The release of the Mektek's MW4:Mercs mod, that served just one purpose: To keep the MechWarrior fans occupied and to build up the hype before the arrival of the then-upcoming MechWarrior 5 / MechWarrior Online.

[w0qj]

+1
F2P (as some seem to expect) is a mirage

BlueDevilspawn, on 12 January 2025 - 12:00 PM, said:

If PGI had stayed independent, the last content to be put out would've been MW5 Mercs Heroes of the Inner Sphere DLC. The reason why so many hero mechs were dumped into one DLC was because they had no financial runway past that. Russ has stated as such publicly. So, being bought by EG7 gave them the ability to put out the full slate of DLCs we have today along with Clans and the ongoing content from MWO.
As to the implied statement that EG7 is the instigator behind the recent layoff, I don't know either way (none of us do). EG7 is the holding company so corporate statements will come out from EG7. Whether the layoffs are at their nudging or a decision by Russ, we can only speculate until someone confirms either way.
Finally, MWO is barely in the black. Russ has stated it makes all year less than what it did in a month at peak MWO. It gets updates because it pays for itself and in doing so keep around the MW fan base / playerbase for coming MW titles. That would be standard business practice. Even if it were losing money (barely), there would need to be a judgment call of whether to keep it up or shut it down, again due to keeping the playerbase around.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

martian, on 12 January 2025 - 12:20 PM, said:

Russ Bullock said pretty clearly that the "profit" from MWO is tiny.

I think that EG7 has kept MWO alive just to keep the fans of the MechWarrior franchise occupied between various MW5:Mercs expansion packs and before the MW5: Clans release.

I mean profit being tiny for a game that you aren't really doing active development isn't nothing either, even if the monetization is a bit exploitative.

That said, considering the size of the layoffs (as well as who was laid off) and the wording, it's highly likely that they'll finish out the year doing whatever DLCs they had planned and then axe the studio with MWO included.

[PurplePuke]

Tiy0s, on 09 January 2025 - 10:37 AM, said:

Back on this topic though, for the Trebuchet 10% velocity nerf. This month I brought up the Trebuchet and Champion and how those two mechs had sort of been "left behind" and needed some touch ups. The Trebuchet is an interesting mech because all of the variants are mediocre/bad except for the TBT-7M. For years the TBT-7M has remained as one of the most powerful LRM mediums in the game. Agile and amazing DPS for its size, the only downside was its fragility.

When we decided to give the Trebuchet extra armor, we felt that the TBT-7M should lose something as it's already a powerful LRM skirmisher. It got armor, it lost velocity. Simple as that. A phrase in Cauldron I've heard thrown around a lot is that a mech can't have firepower, armor, and mobility all together. So when the Treb 7M got an armor buff, it had to lose a bit of firepower.

It will still be a powerful missile skirmisher.

I appreciate this explanation and insight into the thinking behind the change. Thanks.

RockmachinE, on 09 January 2025 - 10:57 AM, said:

Skewing game balance is bias not vision. A vision, for example, would be a game that can be played by people of various skill levels with differently powerful hardware in diverse ways. Nerfing certain weapon systems to the point that they've become trivial is just preference and bias.

I don't agree with your viewpoint. I think you're just mad and looking for something to complain about.

[kalashnikity]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 12 January 2025 - 11:39 AM, said:

......as one of those said middle-aged folks, this is such a stupid argument. The reason this game even has a healthy population is because of all the zoomers running around that have been playing this game since they were teenagers (or still are one). This game would likely have been dead long ago without a younger generation being turned to MWO so yeah, if they want to make a good game, it does have to appeal to people outside that stupid demographic you tried to lay out, but it also doesn't mean it has to sacrifice what you think it does.


To be clear, while he said that, it definitely isn't losing money or hemorrhaging money. It's still making a profit for them per their financials afaik. It just isn't making the big bucks. If it was losing them money it would've been shutdown.

The ONLY problem IMHO with MW5/Clans is the lack of ability to LAN.

Make it so I can host even a 4 or 5 man team at my house and I would be ecstatic.

[martian]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 12 January 2025 - 04:28 PM, said:

I mean profit being tiny for a game that you aren't really doing active development isn't nothing either, even if the monetization is a bit exploitative.

That said, considering the size of the layoffs (as well as who was laid off) and the wording, it's highly likely that they'll finish out the year doing whatever DLCs they had planned and then axe the studio with MWO included.

Russ Bullock mentioned that there is still one semi-completed expansion pack for MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries. He said that he can imagine PGI completing it and offering it one day.

I wonder if PGI does that.

[kalashnikity]

martian, on 12 January 2025 - 01:57 AM, said:

I have got some bad news for you: Russ Bullock himself said that MWO is not making money. He continued with that not even buying all those 'Mechpacks, Legendary 'Mechs and all that other junk would not help.

Oh, almost forgot, since you have mentioned the maps: PGI/EG7 fired their map designer two weeks ago.

This game is not exactly easy to play, that surely limits the player base.

It's literally about as complicated as one of the old school 1980's combat flight simulators on PC, where almost every button ont he keyboard needs to be mapped.

MW5 tried to simplify it somewhat, but it's still got a seriously intimidating learning curve.

[kalashnikity]

martian, on 12 January 2025 - 09:39 PM, said:

Russ Bullock mentioned that there is still one semi-completed expansion pack for MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries. He said that he can imagine PGI completing it and offering it one day.

I wonder if PGI does that.

I'm saddened to hear that.

There is a hardcore fan base of several thousands people, still here after all these years.

I still play World of Warcraft (Burning Crusade, and WOTLK) on free private servers, (donation only), and I hope MWO does not come to that. but I keep it in the back of my mind as a last ditch alternative.

[Cyborne Elemental]

IMHO, PGI screwed up the moment that they stepped away from MWO-2 to make Mercs-5 and then Clans.

MWO has kept the lights on for them for what, nearly 20 years now?

Enough so to get the money together for a big budget game like MW5 and then even more for a successful failure in CLANS.

When the playerbase wanted MWO, or a Mercs style planet hop like Faction play, but much more refined.

We wanted MWO on a newer engine that wasn't a spaghetti noodle mess of soiled old bandaids for code, and onto something that was easier to actually maintain and grow efficiently.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Cyborne Elemental, on 12 January 2025 - 09:57 PM, said:

MWO has kept the lights on for them for what, nearly 20 years now?

MWO doesn't really keep the lights on, as Blue mentioned it's in the black but barely. That doesn't mean it's helping fund their other projects clearly considering they got bought out (either for an injection of cash, and/or so Russ could plan a comfy exit strategy).

Cyborne Elemental, on 12 January 2025 - 09:57 PM, said:

We wanted MWO on a newer engine that wasn't a spaghetti noodle mess of soiled old bandaids for code, and onto something that was easier to actually maintain and grow efficiently.

Porting MWO to a newer engine wouldn't fix anything......there as old of games that have done so, but they had solid growth leading up to that (looking at you CSGO/CS2), MWO does not. So clearly it needs more than just an engine upgrade (ie it needs to be completely redone, not just ported).

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 12 January 2025 - 10:04 PM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

May largely depend on how MW5: Clams is reviewed, how many copies are sold and what plans PGI has for future expansions.

Sooner or later 'em - and or EG7 - gotta evaluate the companies portfolio and may come to the conclusion, that time and money may justify another iteration of MWO Online.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 13 January 2025 - 12:22 AM, said:

May largely depend on how MW5: Clams is reviewed, how many copies are sold and what plans PGI has for future expansions.

Sooner or later 'em - and or EG7 - gotta evaluate the companies portfolio and may come to the conclusion, that time and money may justify another iteration of MWO Online.

Crossin' ma fing'rs

[Arcadinal]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 12 January 2025 - 10:03 PM, said:

Porting MWO to a newer engine wouldn't fix anything......there as old of games that have done so, but they had solid growth leading up to that (looking at you CSGO/CS2), MWO does not. So clearly it needs more than just an engine upgrade (ie it needs to be completely redone, not just ported).

Does MWO advertise at all though? I've heard other people bring this up, and between the time I left the game (a little before Clans stuff came out) and rejoined a few months ago...I basically didn't hear about the game at all except when I deliberately looked it up to see how things were going. I've bought all the other Mechwarrior and Battletech games have come out, and I'm surprised I never see any adverts for the game. I mean, I can't mention to my spouse that I need to do the laundry without seventeen adds for detergent popping up the next time I open a browser, how is it I never see anything about MWO when I aught to be as close to the ideal audience target as you could find? Maybe other folks have had a different experience, but it seems like some marketing might help...

Edited by Arcadinal, 13 January 2025 - 05:10 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Arcadinal, on 13 January 2025 - 05:09 AM, said:

Does MWO advertise at all though? I've heard other people bring this up, and between the time I left the game (a little before Clans stuff came out) and rejoined a few months ago...I basically didn't hear about the game at all except when I deliberately looked it up to see how things were going. I've bought all the other Mechwarrior and Battletech games have come out, and I'm surprised I never see any adverts for the game. I mean, I can't mention to my spouse that I need to do the laundry without seventeen adds for detergent popping up the next time I open a browser, how is it I never see anything about MWO when I aught to be as close to the ideal audience target as you could find? Maybe other folks have had a different experience, but it seems like some marketing might help...

I mean they somewhat used to, but you could say the same about MW5 Clans as well which outside of PGI's websites I didn't see really anything and I'm pretty sure one of the people let go was the head of their marketing. Marketing is money spent that only stems the bleeding because MWO has historically had several influxes of players its just never been able to keep them which speaks to larger issues.

[Cyborne Elemental]

That is a good point, I don't think MWO has had much PR or any kind of solid publicity for the game itself.

WOT, Warthunder, and even DCS have had good publicity, I've seen plenty of commercials on TV, and Ad campaigns.

MWO just never put a big flag up to say "Hey we're here!"

Battletech on the other hand, as a board game has been around forever, with Novels, Model kits, Figurines of Battlemechs.
and has a massive universe of backstory to pull from.

I grew up playing Mechwarrior, MW-2, and then MW-3 felt like the Pinnacle of the franchise until MWO came along.

[sycocys]

Hard to believe they have/had a marketing director or person when people's pets literally have a bigger social media presence than any of their games.

-This is meant to be sarcastic, but sadly also true.