42 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

Overall the mechs are not particularly powerful especially in their stock form. But. Certain fits are incredibly stronk with the right driver. Mainly the red lasvomits but not always. However getting them to perform is going to take a very savvy light pilot and average players are simply not going to have the skill set to mine copious salt in them.

[GreyNovember]

Can confirm, I'm in all likelihood a sub average Firemoth jockey. Main thing that seems to work, but not throw up any real numbers, is 4x CERML/HML and then just scoot around with it.

MASC and the Engine, plus ECM and max armor means you only really have like 4 tons of weapons to play with.

Swapping the LRM variant for ATM3s oddly enough works reasonably to buzz people at short range with lock on while MASC is shaking. Still have to be mindful of min range, but you're usually the one moving twice as fast as they can.

Would probably still get better games in a Cheetah or Piranha.

[Meep Meep]

The ecm hero is fun with just four er meds because you do get to scoot around and just constantly shoot shoot shoot. Also the so8 quirks seem aligned with that as they boost range, cooldown and sustain so you get 500m optimal and can pew off lots of full alphas before going to cycle fire. Coolshots help loads here if you decide to spend the points. The main drawback is that the masc is nerfed on accel and decel stats over normal masc so it not nearly as nimble as other masc lights. You can counter this somewhat but it takes pretty much the full mobility tree so points are really tight.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

It's nothing to really make this "special". It's armor is it's speed, and what it lacks in weapon tonage, makes up for it in quirks. Hit and run that's what this is really about...

[Djinnhammer]

It seems to be a scapegoat as well currently. Just had a match on colosseum. Team goes to C5 blobs up and then...fails to move or make a single aggressive action. Whole team stops when it sees 2 stone rhinos....
Guy on voip whining about nerfing the moth. He actually thought because enemy team had one of them that's why we got rekt.
It's that type of mentality and cognitive dissonance that ruins all the nice things.

[wargnome]

As mentioned before, Streak SRMs (even with many JJs) are not effective against FMTs: lock times, missile velocity and range are easily countered by a 200+ kph mech that is using terrain and its speed.

My experience so far is that their time-to-kill is way out of proportion considering how aggressive and out in the open many are played. No other lights can play that 'ballsy' and get away with it. The server tic rate seems to exacerbate this problem.

Right now, it seems to be one of the most unbalanced additions. This is especially noteworthy considering the patch notes explicitly addressing power creep and proclaiming the aim for balance and measure with game additions and changes ("We try to be as fair and balanced as possible").

[Flash Riprock]

wargnome, on 21 February 2025 - 03:22 AM, said:

As mentioned before, Streak SRMs (even with many JJs) are not effective against FMTs: lock times, missile velocity and range are easily countered by a 200+ kph mech that is using terrain and its speed.

My experience so far is that their time-to-kill is way out of proportion considering how aggressive and out in the open many are played. No other lights can play that 'ballsy' and get away with it. The server tic rate seems to exacerbate this problem.

Right now, it seems to be one of the most unbalanced additions. This is especially noteworthy considering the patch notes explicitly addressing power creep and proclaiming the aim for balance and measure with game additions and changes ("We try to be as fair and balanced as possible").

I disagree. I get away with being ballsy most of the time in my stealth Flea and stealth Spider.

The Fire Moth is just the flavor of the month right now.

Pay attention to how much damage they are actually doing. Not much. The biggest impact they have is drawing attention, NOT DAMAGE or kills.

I play almost exclusively lights, and bought all of the Fire Moths. So far, my impression is that anything I can do in a Moth, I can do in some other light.

Again, it comes down to the players. If you and/or your team decide to get distracted by a light, and get hammered by bigger mechs , that isn’t an OP light issue, that is a teamwork issue.

This is the REAL issue….Quick Play does not lend itself to REAL teamwork. So when heavies and assaults get attacked by a light, everyone wants to blame the light. When in actuality, what should be happening is the big boys should have escorts screening for them.

LIGHTS ARE THE SCAPEGOATS FOR BAD TEAMWORK.

[GreyNovember]

Flash Riprock, on 21 February 2025 - 06:32 AM, said:

LIGHTS ARE THE SCAPEGOATS FOR BAD TEAMWORK.

This.

We can't do ANYTHING to people who have their head on a swivel and don't get left behind alone 500m behind a cliff so that they can't be helped by anyone.

...Well, we can.

We can run in, guns blazing, and come out crippled or dead in exchange for MAYBE taking off one of your STs, assuming you have something resembling close range firepower and the ability to keep a burn on target or lead with a ballistic.

Or we can keep you pinned down/ retreating towards your team VERY slowly, because you try to keep your back away from us while you move.

Light mechs are like LRMs. We only really work on people who screw up.

[WTFlo]

I'm certainly not the most experienced and involved player out there. In fact, I only picked up MWO again in 2024 after almost a decade of inactivity (performance issues when the switch to 24 players happened). But MW5 got me hooked again and now I'm here, complaining about a mech. So take it with a grain of salt.

I can only speak from the POV of an assault-only player: This thing feels WAY to tanky for a 20t mech that can move at over 200kph and bring light weight clanner weapons. And I'm not talking about tracking/ping issues, I'm talking about legged Fire Moths taking several volleys of an assault mech point blank and still standing. No Flea or Locust can do that.

The last few days have been a huge pain in the a** literally and almost made me uninstall the game. The NASCAR mentallity of most players was already hard to deal with as an assault and something I don't understand. But now you're getting swarmed by a handful of 200kph mechs that feel as tanky as mediums, while everyone else is running away, like the problem of being chased by faster mechs will magically solve itself somehow? Can someone with more experience please explain to me what the thought is behind running in circles until the faster mechs shoot the slower ones in the back and then murder the rest of team? How did this become the meta and what was the reason behind it? Why not just turn around and fight, take down those few pesky lights as a whole team and then kill the rest?

Peak moment was yesterday when I called for help and someone actually turned around... but then shot me in the back trying to hit this thing, taking out my side torso in the process. At this point, I just gave up, let them kill me and closed the game. Only hope I have at this point is that Fire Moth players will soon get bored with their new toys and instead of 3-4 per team, you get 1-3.

[Djinnhammer]

WTFlo, on 21 February 2025 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm certainly not the most experienced and involved player out there. In fact, I only picked up MWO again in 2024 after almost a decade of inactivity (performance issues when the switch to 24 players happened). But MW5 got me hooked again and now I'm here, complaining about a mech. So take it with a grain of salt.

I can only speak from the POV of an assault-only player: This thing feels WAY to tanky for a 20t mech that can move at over 200kph and bring light weight clanner weapons. And I'm not talking about tracking/ping issues, I'm talking about legged Fire Moths taking several volleys of an assault mech point blank and still standing. No Flea or Locust can do that.

The last few days have been a huge pain in the a** literally and almost made me uninstall the game. The NASCAR mentallity of most players was already hard to deal with as an assault and something I don't understand. But now you're getting swarmed by a handful of 200kph mechs that feel as tanky as mediums, while everyone else is running away, like the problem of being chased by faster mechs will magically solve itself somehow? Can someone with more experience please explain to me what the thought is behind running in circles until the faster mechs shoot the slower ones in the back and then murder the rest of team? How did this become the meta and what was the reason behind it? Why not just turn around and fight, take down those few pesky lights as a whole team and then kill the rest?

Peak moment was yesterday when I called for help and someone actually turned around... but then shot me in the back trying to hit this thing, taking out my side torso in the process. At this point, I just gave up, let them kill me and closed the game. Only hope I have at this point is that Fire Moth players will soon get bored with their new toys and instead of 3-4 per team, you get 1-3.

I feel the same way about assault mech alpha alpha alpha alpha gameplay.
Horses for courses, when you are having fun I generally am not as I hate having half my mech blown away from one single touch.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

How to deal with a Firemoth! Sweep the legs. Streak's, shrug, by the time you get a lock you may have lost a few compnents. SRM 4's or 6's. No Artemis, no point in reduced spread on the 4's seem to work best. Aim low! LRM's, forget it, Ive already outran the last possition. LB's, 10's and 20's seem to work well too... Otherise, take time to aim! I've gotten PPC'd, Streakss, SRM'd, Laser'd, but I can't say I've been Lurm'd, or ATM'd yet! The big thing is, take your time to make a good shot, don't just spam, you will not hit a damn thing!

As a friemoth fighting one. I come to a dead stop, take aim at a leg, fire and masc on!

I almost feel sorry for the assault's, and I do not. Change up your trees to include anchor turn, and torso speed, this will help dramtically in being able to trwist enough when fighting any light 1 vs 1!

As I previously mentioned, it's armor is it's speed as it doesn't have any! It's firepower is in it's quicks for it doesn't have any of that either!

[GreyNovember]

WTFlo, on 21 February 2025 - 09:32 AM, said:

legged Fire Moths taking several volleys of an assault mech point blank and still standing. No Flea or Locust can do that.

This one's a bit of a contentious point, because what an "Assault mech alpha" is varies.

2x LBX20 and 4X CSRM6? 40+24 damage, spread across probably the whole mech. Let's say you only hit the torsos, and every single part of that alpha hits. Looking at maybe 20-ish damage on each component, if you did this whlie they were standing still and within optimal range. Less, naturally, if the spread is greater or you miss pellets.

6 CERML + 2 CLPL? 36 + 26 damage. Realistically let's say maybe 75% of that total burn is on target on a single torso. 45+ Damage, which should be enough to pop it, if it isn't twisting or moving at all to counter the burn. If it is, 20 damage sounds more reasonable, assuming none of that burn misses.

Twin heavy Gauss in optimal range? 50 damage straight up in one location, if you hit. Ends us instantly if you get the CT. Rips off a leg otherwise.

[CFC Conky]

So far I've done thirty drops in the FMTs and down where I play (T4/3), they're pretty strong due to their ability to reposition so quickly. In my opinion they make the PIR redundant at my current Tier level. While the PIR can carry more weapons, the FMT's mobility more than makes up for it. Four HMLs and ECM are a dangerous combination as are the SRM bombers.

Right now a lot of players are running the FMT so there are usually more than one on the team which can make for brutal wolf-packing.

While not OP, I wouldn't be surprised if the thing gets nerfed in a future patch, either by reducing armour/structure bonuses and/or reducing the overheat damage reduction %.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, Yesterday, 01:21 PM.

[Flash Riprock]

Just watched Sean Lang play about 10 matches in the Fire Moth.

The first few games with all laser build he averaged about 300 damage. In one game he got 600 damage and 4 kills. In the next two games, he got about 200 damage in each.

Switched to SRM 4 x3 build for 3 games and averaged about 450- 500 damage.

Switched to ATM 3 x2 build and averaged 500-550 over 3 games.

KEEP IN MIND HE DROPS AS A 4 MAN AND HAS HELP AND COMMUNICATION.

During these games I noted all the other Fire Moths performance on both teams. A couple of known good players averaged 400-500 over a few games. All others (probably 12-15 total) averaged about 200 damage, with several never breaking 100.

This mech is not OP.

Edited by Flash Riprock, Yesterday, 01:22 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Flash Riprock, on 21 February 2025 - 01:19 PM, said:

Switched to ATM 3 x2 build and averaged 500-550 over 3 games.

How the man manages to go through that much ammunition AND land those shots consistently while zipping around an ECM laden battlefield at close range to maximize damage is beyond me.

[kalashnikity]

Flash Riprock, on 20 February 2025 - 07:21 AM, said:

These mechs, I believe, are pretty balanced. I bought all of them and have played at least 50 matches, at this point, with most of them.
I believe the best AVERAGE damage for an AVERAGE player will be in the 250-300 realm.
Better players who know how to play lights will AVERAGE 350-400.
These mechs are not game-breaking. They are scary right now because they are fast and there are lots of them running around.
VERY few of them are getting multiple-kill games.
I pilot lights almost exclusively and enjoy the high speed. An average game for me is 2 kills and 500 damage. I have multiple 6,7 & 8 kill, 900-1000 damage games. For every one of those, I have a game where I die with no kills and 200 or less damage. It is the nature of lights.
Give it until the end of summer, after they go on sale for Cbills and the excitement wears off. Then you will see fewer of them because they will not appeal to any but the dedicated light player.

It's wonderful to see a bunch of lights, instead of the constant power creep of the last year.

And I just ran into a vulture with streaks, and it was scary, scary!

As fragile as these Dashers are, they are not game breaking.

Not at all.

[kalashnikity]

Flash Riprock, on 21 February 2025 - 06:32 AM, said:

Pay attention to how much damage they are actually doing. Not much. The biggest impact they have is drawing attention, NOT DAMAGE or kills.

^^^

I've had several matches already where I was basically just a distraction, waiting for the team to get there.

Same role that many lights play.

Next?

The Wasp...

We've already dug through sarna, plenty of variants to work with

[GETREKT4K]

There definitely is something going on between 170-200 kph that is making damage spread way more than it should. I have had match after match where they just shrug off 25-30 damage alphas from ppc or ap-gauss fire like it was a small laser. People spectating me also commented on how ridiculous it looks to get 4-5 direct hits and their armor barely turns orange.

Then there was the time I shot at one that was literally standing still. Direct hit. 0 damage. Also someone else saw it on voice chat and was like wtf?

[TELEFORCE]

I'll get Firemoths at some point. In the meantime, I'm having fun smacking them around with my fully-skilled AWS-9M. They really don't do well against 30 PPFLD at 5.2 km/s travel time

Edited by TELEFORCE, Yesterday, 04:35 PM.

[GreyNovember]

GETREKT4K, on 21 February 2025 - 03:21 PM, said:

There definitely is something going on between 170-200 kph that is making damage spread way more than it should. I have had match after match where they just shrug off 25-30 damage alphas from ppc or ap-gauss fire like it was a small laser. People spectating me also commented on how ridiculous it looks to get 4-5 direct hits and their armor barely turns orange.

Then there was the time I shot at one that was literally standing still. Direct hit. 0 damage. Also someone else saw it on voice chat and was like wtf?

I will gladly test this with you if we happen to come across each other on opposite teams. Won't even bother to shoot back.

Turn recording software on, and we'll test what happens from both perspectives.