101 replies to this topic

[SockSlayer]

Flamers still keep getting ignored despite:
1. You can't score even if you cause the enemy to overheat and die. Only counts as a kill assist.
2. Most new light variants have an absolutely meta amount of mg since no heat penalty.
3. The few that do have quirks for flamers are all lights and the highest is 25% on a firestarter...
4. And yet, its ok to do 65% small laser range for a non-hero charger, or 80% ATM Range on a hero timberwolf?
5. Small lasers on IS don't even have a penalty at all even at 16 lasers, Flamers capped at a low 4?
6. Piranha was a stupid basis to determine overpowered state to begin with, no one considers the mech overheats quickly, and at most will only be a problem for a few seconds for a good flamer pilot.
7. Almost everything can solo flamer mechs, except those who boat large lasers or high heat weapons, and in quick play, who doesn't have a mg light?
8. The field has changed, and so has every other weapon, if the heat damage was too high of a value to set, then why do all the higher players whine its overpowered once the change was made? Why was the heat damage not scaled back and directly resolve the issue, instead they nerfed it with dismal regular damage of 0.1, terrible range, exponential overheat, plus the 4 Limit. I get they were trying to resolve the overpowered issue, except they never really did because the heat damage is still 4.5, but now the weapon just sucks to use in almost every case.
9. So few designs can even properly mount flamers and actually get a benefit, most times its better to just add small lasers.
Conclusion: No weapon has been nerfed more than the flamer, and it was all unnecessary, all they had to do was lessen the heat damage, but no, instead they made a sucky weapon with terrible stats, and players like me have to deal with how awful it actually is, the higher players who don't want it fixed don't actually use the weapon hardly at all, so how can they understand just how awful it is to use? Give the flamer the changes it should have had all the way back then, as they don't even work like the lore anyway.

[Will9761]

Thinking about the Gauntlet and the Men Shen, I can understand why PGI chose the Gauntlet instead of the Men Shen. Although, both of them can be the answer to the Black Lanner, in a more practical standpoint The Bushwacker was used to create the Gauntlet. Given the limited resources of PGI, it make sense to recycle that Mech to make the OmniMech with less resources than making new art for the Men Shen. Given how most of these designs were meant to serve as upgrades, reverse-engineered or Omni versions of pre-existing mechs it's understandable to use these existing chassis to refurbish them as prototypes, especially in the world of MWO.

Edited by Will9761, 20 June 2025 - 10:04 AM.

[Rhaelcan]

Mayhem Lewis, on 18 June 2025 - 11:39 PM, said:

ECM on the GTL-10B but no stealth armor, bad call. You can't even switch up the armor for it with the locked in light ferro, which is a waste of slots for such small weight drop.

Bummer, this could have been awesome.


On the bright side I see the Black Lanner's full body armor buff was dialed back a bit to 14, but otherwise continued which validates that they were intentional and not a mistaken implementation like some boneheads tried to infer. Looking at you sucking heaven.

Are you mad at PGI cause Catalyst made that variant? Bummer. Lmfao

[Rhaelcan]

Will9761, on 19 June 2025 - 01:11 PM, said:

Thinking about the Gauntlet and the Men Shen, I can understand why PGI chose the Gauntlet instead of the Men Shen. Although, both of them can be the answer to the Black Lanner, in a more practical standpoint The Bushwacker was used to create the Gauntlet and give the limited resources of PGI it make sense to recycle that Mech to make the OmniMech with less resources than making new art for the Men Shen. Given how most of these designs were meant to serve as upgrades, reverse engineered or Omni versions of pre-existing mechs it's understandable to use these existing chassis to refurbish them as prototypes, especially in the world of MWO.

Menshen would of needed a new model. Gauntlet didn't.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mayhem Lewis, on 19 June 2025 - 12:15 PM, said:

Maybe that's the case in the Rarefied air of Tier one mate, but for the rest of us at tier 3 or below, its just fine and has more than a few excellent applications.

Yes, but saying its bad just because it lacks stealth is straight up stupid, ESPECIALLY knowing that stealth much like a few other bad mechanics have varying degrees of impact. ECM is typically good enough (just ask the Wolfhound IIC or basically any ECM mech) for what you want if you dump skills into it without costing you precious DPS, even for "the rest of us".

Also spare me the "we the people" nonsense. I know it's common in the brown sea for people to think they speak for the rest, but you dont so save your breath.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 19 June 2025 - 02:19 PM.

[SockSlayer]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 19 June 2025 - 02:16 PM, said:

Yes, but saying its bad just because it lacks stealth is straight up stupid, ESPECIALLY knowing that stealth much like a few other bad mechanics have varying degrees of impact. ECM is typically good enough (just ask the Wolfhound IIC or basically any ECM mech) for what you want if you dump skills into it without costing you precious DPS, even for "the rest of us".

Also spare me the "we the people" nonsense. I know it's common in the brown sea for people to think they speak for the rest, but you dont so save your breath.

I agree, stealth does have its downsides too, in most cases, base ecm will do, stealth has an enhanced weakness against flamer mechs or if they have equipped too many lasers.

[LavaDa1shi]

Mayhem Lewis, on 19 June 2025 - 12:15 PM, said:

Maybe that's the case in the Rarefied air of Tier one mate, but for the rest of us at tier 3 or below, its just fine and has more than a few excellent applications.

I know its hard to grasp that what the mid-to-low tiers think and like matters just as much as tier one pilots like yourself. Dirty potatoes that you love to talk down to and sneer at, but mate its 80% of the population. We are the majority of the fellas buying mechs, MC, premium time, even Cbills in some cases that you top-end Gents don't have to anymore either because you have such a huge stockpile from all the winning, the comps, or just being given mechs because you are Cauldron members. So save a little thought and a thank you for all us dirty little potatoes, mechdads, noobs, and farm animals for funding the servers, electricity and dev time that makes your super duper elite on elite lives possible eh?

See I can't possibly see how every loadout, mech, tactic, etc... that kicks *** or is the de rigueur at tier one works or why because I don't play there, totally different game. Just as the matchmaker makes it so you can't visit our dirty little matches very often unless its on a seal clubbing account, and see what does and doesn't fly. Honestly I feel a bit bad for you fellas stuck in Meta-hell where you are expected to run X, Y and Z or get crap from your team and unit. Who knows? maybe there are some great applications for Stealth armor on bigger stuff in Tier one matches that will never be known because everyone has already decided what is good and what is potatoe.

God speed son, we will be thinking of you while we have wacky, insane, unpredictable, unique and above all friggen FUN matches where you can't be sure what everyone is going to drop or what's gonna happen.

Sounds like you have a misunderstanding of how tier 1 players behave, there are tons of super casual players in tier 1, I know multiple people who very often play stock builds or meme builds and very easily stay in tier 1, now people who play meme builds aren't the majority but the people who play only the turbo meta farmers are in the minority in tier 1. I mean you have probably played in tier 1 games before since tier 3 is the tier that can get put in games with players from every tier.

There is small couple of people that in my honest opinion take QP way too seriously and get salty when people throw but they are a minority ime.

Anyway, point is the people who only play the turbo meta stuff are a minority in tier 1 and tier 1 is actually pretty casual.


Also stealth is bad not because it doesn't work in tier 1 but because ECM is good enough at a fraction of the costs.

Edited by LavaDa1shi, 20 June 2025 - 01:33 PM.

[Ilostmycactus]

I would definitely like flamers to get buffed.

[SockSlayer]

Ilostmycactus, on 19 June 2025 - 08:13 PM, said:

I would definitely like flamers to get buffed.

I would too, its just ugly all the way around, too short of range, no regular damage like it used to have, and a heat damage that works and yet doesn't since its capped at 90%, if you look earlier, I posted what the issue is. Instead of dealing with the fact the heat damage was raised too much, which caused the complaining, they nerfed it in almost every way imaginable, and the stupid part was programmers wasted their time on that when they could have just taken the heat damage to 1.0 or 2.0 instead of going all the way to 4.5 and all the elite players who don't use them freaked out, and thus the sorry nerfs were added.

And with so many game and weapon changes, most players are far more alert now, meaning flamers don't have enough time to work, and even if they do, its too easy to get killed trying since you only have 90m.

[KursedVixen]

LordNothing, on 19 June 2025 - 12:22 PM, said:

you think streaks have it bad. make rocket launchers great useful again for once.

As far as I know Clan streaks are kinda worthless, especially if you can aim, as they do less damage per missile are slower to cooldown slower velicoty and weigh more i really don't think the extended range warrented a damage drop considering the other downsides.

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 June 2025 - 10:20 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

OK, why the Gauntlet, though?

You meant it as a herald of IS omnis coming in the next months? Like BlackJack, Firestarter and the likes?

Then flip the coin and add omnis for Clans like the Night chanter or Spirit walker. Existing models in all cases, minimal effort, new content (kinda, like the Ghost Bears DLC announced). None of these (include the Gauntlet) adds anything new to the game but increase the number of mechs (and may yield some income, I guess)...

And for the sake of the vile, Dark Gods! MW5 Clans + DLC for GoG at last!

[Void Angel]

Rhaelcan, on 19 June 2025 - 01:39 PM, said:

Are you mad at PGI cause Catalyst made that variant? Bummer. Lmfao

No, he's mad at someone else because of another thread. Bear that in mind when you engage with him; his emotions and desires matter more than factuality - or the forum rules.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 19 June 2025 - 02:16 PM, said:

Also spare me the "we the people" nonsense. I know it's common in the brown sea for people to think they speak for the rest, but you dont so save your breath.

How DARE you, sir! You cannot silence the Voice of the People!

Edited by Void Angel, 19 June 2025 - 11:11 PM.

[LordNothing]

KursedVixen, on 19 June 2025 - 10:20 PM, said:

As far as I know Clan streaks are kinda worthless, especially if you can aim, as they do less damage per missile are slower to cooldown slower velicoty and weigh more i really don't think the extended range warrented a damage drop considering the other downsides.

i only install streaks when quirks are present, then i remove them because they still suck. i dont care what tech base they are in.

[LordNothing]

Void Angel, on 19 June 2025 - 11:10 PM, said:

No, he's mad at someone else because of another thread. Bear that in mind when you engage with him; his emotions and desires matter more than factuality - or the forum rules.



How DARE you, sir! You cannot silence the Voice of the People!

my take on this is that new players start in tier 5 and if they see a bunch of useless weapons they think "hmm this game is not balanced at all, and its over a decade old, maybe i will find something else to play". not everybody wants to play meta or even know what that is. balancing the low tier play is good for new players. then maybe we dont have to whale so hard to keep the game alive.

[Void Angel]

Talking to new players as I haunt the New Player Help forums, I don't find that to be the case. Most players don't evaluate weapons as useless or not, and in fact I've talked to a number of people whose loadouts were simply abysmal, but worked for them in Tier 5. And unless you're going up against people with a combination of experience and some tactical understanding, you can make shoddy builds work for a long time - it's actually a strength of the game's core gameplay design. Skill matters more than weapon loadout, as any top player will tell you. Even the "bad" weapons like Flamers and Streaks are situational (and I've been seeing more LRM loadouts lately in Tier 1, as well.)
And yet: if we balance weapons based on their performances in low-level play, we're going to get a certain result - Tier 1 play will become actually more constrained than some people now imagine that it is, as only a certain number of overpowered weapons/mechs will be even viable. Match variety will go down, and tournament play will become a homogenous contest of who is best with a small pool of builds, with less emphasis on build strategy and 'mech choice. So while it's not good balance design to make decisions based only on (for example) the Championship Series match data, or something like that... It's also not good to make balance changes based on how weapons act in the hands of those who don't know how to use them well yet. Doing so seems like a good idea at a glance - but it will damage, or even destroy the game.

LordNothing, on 20 June 2025 - 12:22 AM, said:

i only install streaks when quirks are present, then i remove them because they still suck. i dont care what tech base they are in.

Vix commonly ignores facts and distorts the truth when she's arguing for Clan supremacy in the guise of "fixing" balance. Case in point: Clan Streaks do indeed produce less damage per missile. In addition, the Clan version has a longer cooldown time to boot! #ThePoorClanners. But what Vix conveniently leaves out is the Inner Sphere versions weigh half again what their Clan counterparts weigh, and are out-ranged by a third. Having been chased by both weapon systems, I will hands-down take on an Inner Sphere Streakboat over a Clanner, when I'm in a Light.

You are correct, however, that both tech bases' Streaks are lackluster if you can aim. They're literally only good against Lights - which is why buffing them to be competitive against SRMs when shooting larger chassis would break balance.

Edited by Void Angel, 20 June 2025 - 07:12 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

The Gauntlet has some of the worst hardpoints ever given how THIS game functions. The quirks are average at best and the paintjob isn't appealing. I'll wait for quirk rebalance or a sale even. Thanks.

[Saved By The Bell]

I could win Mercenaries 2 only with flamer may be, it was so broken.

[KursedVixen]

FRAGTAST1C, on 20 June 2025 - 07:13 AM, said:

The Gauntlet has some of the worst hardpoints ever given how THIS game functions. The quirks are average at best and the paintjob isn't appealing. I'll wait for quirk rebalance or a sale even. Thanks.

it's an omni it's gotta have quirks that are lower than that of a battlmech to compensate for the ability to swap the hardpoints... (even though I fully believe omnis are totally customizable)

[Mayhem Lewis]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 19 June 2025 - 02:16 PM, said:

Yes, but saying its bad just because it lacks stealth is straight up stupid, ESPECIALLY knowing that stealth much like a few other bad mechanics have varying degrees of impact. ECM is typically good enough (just ask the Wolfhound IIC or basically any ECM mech) for what you want if you dump skills into it without costing you precious DPS, even for "the rest of us".

Also spare me the "we the people" nonsense. I know it's common in the brown sea for people to think they speak for the rest, but you dont so save your breath.

Once again as a tier one guy you don't know mate, its different game for the majority of us playing 3 or lower, sorry that upsets you. As for speaking for the rest? you tried that when you make broad blanket statements what is good or bad and you only play at the tier one with a fraction of the player base.

Hey that brown sea comment, that's an insult right? calling lower tier S&^t? right? hmmm here I thought insulting folks like that, bullying, and implied language was against the COC, not to mention not really mature behavior. Be sure to let me know if I took it wrong and 'brown sea' means somethign else.

Its really been great chatting with you, getting a exchange ideas with such an interesting person.

Edited by Mayhem Lewis, 20 June 2025 - 01:21 PM.

[Mayhem Lewis]

Void Angel, on 19 June 2025 - 11:10 PM, said:

No, he's mad at someone else because of another thread. Bear that in mind when you engage with him; his emotions and desires matter more than factuality - or the forum rules.



How DARE you, sir! You cannot silence the Voice of the People!

You will have to forgive our angelic friend folks, he got out over his skis on another thread and is still a bit cranky for being caught out. I've heard he is a delightful drop-mate so I guess we should all give him a pass okay? I mean sure he is trying to link one thread to another, by stalking another poster who showed him up on a thread that moderation had to come in and clean up, hoping to come over to this thread in an effort to establish forumwarrior dominance over someone with a small post count, is he doing that? sure, but I think we can give him a little grace and just hope that given some time he will remember the COC regarding that kind of posting behavior and the sting to his ego will fade enough to the point that he just gets back to spamming the forums overall instead of stalking other posters he has a beef with.

God speed

Rhaelcan, on 19 June 2025 - 01:39 PM, said:

Are you mad at PGI cause Catalyst made that variant? Bummer. Lmfao

More bummed than mad really, its kinda at the same level as the guys bummed that the visual is a bushwhacker instead of a bulldog'ish bushwhacker, no more. And really at this point we can't be too picky and I'm excited for another mech, so I'll still buy the booster set for sure.