41 replies to this topic

[BigSteel]

Unfortuntely it has become an absolute game breaker for me.

Its not the idea of force first person... its the aspect of a COMPUTER forced first person and the computer flat screen is so bad its makes the game un-fun. Im totally heart broken over it. Its like watching the world through a paper towel cardboard funnel.

Im a Battletecher from table top and MechWarrior through out all the MW versions via [Hels Elite Legion] and the complete lack of fluidity is a death sentence to the fun aspect.

I do like that the poptarting/hillhuimnping aspect is largely removed by not having the vision 10 meters above the actual cockpit level, but the camera could have been set behind the mech (transperant) at eye level and obtained the same result without the absolute suffocation of vision impairment.

I was so very ready to jump neck deep into this.

If you see the very same post 2-3 times a day... it tells you just how massive an issue this is. People are well aware what happens with forced cockpit with overly limited vision spectrums, does to a game. Remember this is still a GAME. Games are meant to be fun, not just simulators that feel like work and wear you down.

Edited by BigSteel, 03 August 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[Noth]

BigSteel, on 03 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Unfortuntely it has become an absolute game breaker for me.

Its not the idea of force first person... its the aspect of a COMPUTER forced first person and the computer flat screen is so bad its makes the game un-fun. Im totally heart broken over it. Its like watching the world through a paper towel cardboard funnel.

Im a Battletecher from table top and MechWarrior through out all the MW versions via [Hels Elite Legion] and the complete lack of fluidity is a death sentence to the fun aspect.

I do like that the poptarting/hillhuimnping aspect is largely removed by not having the vision 10 meters above the actual cockpit level, but the camera could have been set behind the mech (transperant) at eye level and obtained the same result without the absolute suffocation of vision impairment.

I was so very ready to jump neck deep into this.

If you see the very same post 2-3 times a day... it tells you just how massive an issue this is. People are well aware what happens with forced cockpit with overly limited vision spectrums, does to a game. Remember this is still a GAME. Games are meant to be fun, not just simulators that feel like work and wear you down.

Even 10 feet behind with the mech transparent is an advantage as you have a wider field of view. Overly limited spectrums of a game is a game design choice and as such will attract people or push them away. you can't make everyone happy while making a balanced game.

[Pht]

Noth, on 03 August 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Even 10 feet behind with the mech transparent is an advantage as you have a wider field of view. Overly limited spectrums of a game is a game design choice and as such will attract people or push them away. you can't make everyone happy while making a balanced game.

*cough*

Pht, on 03 August 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

All that has to be done is to simply not render anything that cannot be seen on the 'mechs sensors (visual or otherwise) or through the cockpit view screens by the pilot. That way, you have the level of information available to a 'mechwarrior in a 'mech cockpit ... and nothing more... and you get to see the coolness that is your 'mech (or trashcan, in the case of the lovable urbie!)

[Noth]

Pht, on 03 August 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

*cough*

Which would cause massive complaints by the majority of people that want 3rd person, not to mention cause really odd issues with pop-in would occur.

[Bansheedragon75]

BigSteel, on 03 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Unfortuntely it has become an absolute game breaker for me.

Its not the idea of force first person... its the aspect of a COMPUTER forced first person and the computer flat screen is so bad its makes the game un-fun. Im totally heart broken over it. Its like watching the world through a paper towel cardboard funnel.

Im a Battletecher from table top and MechWarrior through out all the MW versions via [Hels Elite Legion] and the complete lack of fluidity is a death sentence to the fun aspect.

I do like that the poptarting/hillhuimnping aspect is largely removed by not having the vision 10 meters above the actual cockpit level, but the camera could have been set behind the mech (transperant) at eye level and obtained the same result without the absolute suffocation of vision impairment.

I was so very ready to jump neck deep into this.

If you see the very same post 2-3 times a day... it tells you just how massive an issue this is. People are well aware what happens with forced cockpit with overly limited vision spectrums, does to a game. Remember this is still a GAME. Games are meant to be fun, not just simulators that feel like work and wear you down.

The problem is not with the 3PV in and of itself, but the unfair advantage it gives over those that dont use it.
By your words, adding 3PV would essentially be the same as forcing those who prefer 1PV to use 3PV, because if they do not use 3PV they would be handicapped over those who does not use it.
What the community here wants is a Mech simulation, not an arcade shooterr, and adding 3PV would make this game too much like an arcade shooter like mechassault, than the mech simulation it is intended to be, which would drive away many of the MW/BT fans.

If the game feels flat and unfun to you in 1PV, I dont see how adding 3PV would change that as the game would be no less flat on your screen than it would be in 1PV.
And if you feel the game is more like work than fun for you then I dont see how adding 3PV would change that for you.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds to me as if your problem is not so much the 1PV thats the issue, but rather the view angle being too narrow for you.
Would it help to add a 1PV option without the cockpit and a wider view angle?

And it still dont answer the question I originally asked.
Why keep creating new threads instead of posting in already existing threads?

Edited by Dragonlord, 03 August 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Ragz]

Dymitry, on 03 August 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Yes but people like seeing what they are driving, flying or riding. As in a game perception is done mainly with visuals, it takes imagination that not everyone has otherwise to get immersed.

Personally I have said it once already, I rather have the devs spend time on more important stuff, or replays at the very latest, but that does not mean that I consider everyone that wants 3rd person view a cheater or whatever.

If someone wants to stare at their mech rather than shoot other mechs with their mech well
Theres a mech-bay for that.
I doubt race car drivers or tank operators would rather stare at their vehicle than operate
It so people can pretend they're actually piloting the mech and then they wont worry about what it look like either AND they'll get "immersion"
And maybe even a kill.

[Tribune]

I think the main thing is, you can't please everyone. Some people prefer 1st person, some people prefer 3rd person. As previously stated, the problem with even adding the option of 3rd person is that it provides a "view" advantage that would put those using 1st person view at a disadvantage. While people could still "choose" 1st person, they would find that they need to use 3rd person just to be on an even advantage to others using 3rd person. The end result would be the whole concept of simulation/immersion game would be gone with the wind.

If having the cockpit feels confining, I believe there is and/or will be a zoom option that removes that cockpit (like leaning forward inside your cockpit), so that would fix that problem. Wanting to see your mech and watch it in action is more of a distraction, unless of course you want it so you can see where exactly your enemy is when next to/behind you. In which case, I believe radar and directional damage sensors should be able to assist with that. Although an idea/suggestion for the game (as this is a suggestion thread), would be to add a "behind you" screen inside the cockpick that you can view via "free look" (like a rear-view mirror, or those new rear-camera screens that are now appearing in cars/vans today), or via a 2nd monitor (if/when this game supports multiple monitors).

[Pht]

Noth, on 03 August 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Which would cause massive complaints by the majority of people that want 3rd person,...

... You've talked to the majority of the people that want to have 3rd person?

Quote

not to mention cause really odd issues with pop-in would occur.

Nah. Non-visual contacts render like they do in mech-commaner 2, related to your sensor hardware and pilot skill on reading the sensors.

As for any other visual oddities? ... To those who want the unfair advantage, ala mw4? ... um, I don't care if they complain, and even if they did, that still wouldn't be a good reason to have a valid, balanced, working 3rd person.

Dragonlord, on 03 August 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

The problem is not with the 3PV in and of itself, but the unfair advantage it gives over those that dont use it.

There is zero unfair advantage in 3pv if they set it to not render anything that doesn't appear as a sensor contact or that the pilot can't see visually.

[Strum Wealh]

Even though the MWO Lead Designer has already given an uneequivocal (and, for many, much-appreciated) "no" to near-term implementation of third-person gameplay, one possible compromise - supported by BT canon, no less! - may be to allow a third-person POV for a post-match review for those using 'Mechs equipped with a Beagle Active Probe.

Strum Wealh, on 31 July 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Of interest is that the Beagle Active Probe canonically "includes a memory unit that records the events of a battle and allows for later playback".
"This includes the ability for the user to "re-fight" the battle by making different tactical decisions, which are then analyzed and implemented by the system, allowing for the resulting consequences to be observed."
(This capability is described in TRO 2750, within the entry for the HTC-213B Hellcat II.)

This would be in addition to the "BattleROM" (data-recorder/"black box"/gun-cam system) that is a standard feature of BattleMechs.

However, the above is merely the fluff/canon justification for such a thing to be available as a "replay" to be made available only after a match has taken place.
It would remain to be seen whether the Devs have the interest to actually implement such functions...

If (eventually) implemented, this would allow players to watch their 'Mechs in action (what a number of the proponents of third-person POV purport to be their primary desire) while still removing/avoiding most/all of the potential balance concerns during actual gameplay (as it would be accessible only after a match has already concluded).

The BAP's "replay function", if (eventually) implemented and coupled with an AI system, could also satisfy those looking for an occasional single-player experience (whether for training purposes (especially in light of the MWO Lead Designer having explicitly stated that "private matches are a no") or just passing the time when no other teammates are available) by allowing a player who used a BAP-equipped 'Mech in a previously-concluded match to "'re-fight' the battle by making different tactical decisions, which are then analyzed and implemented by the system, allowing for the resulting consequences to be observed".

Your thoughts?

[Pht]

...

Wow. Geeze, people read NOTHING but the OP and post, I guess? I mean, i know there are a LOT of posts going on really quickly most of the time ...

SW: we don't need to do battle rom replays ...

http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__733762

[BCCanuck]

no third person view, ever.

[C E Dwyer]

Its what cam view is for, after you been blown to bits, backseat cockpit driver, no no faster faster..shoot him not him..OMG look out for that Jenner..

[Fezzwig]

This has been billed as a FPS. Never heard it described as a TPS. No 3rd person is my vote.

[Icebound]

If they added in 3rd person, nobody would play in 1st anymore. The extra visibility would be too advantageous to not take utilize constantly. You'd know EXACTLY what just shot you in the back, there wouldn't be any cockpit obstructions to add to realism, and it just wouldn't feel right for a simulator game in my opinion.

[Ransack]

I would like to see some sort of third person camera at some point. Not for anything cheesy, I'd just like to see my mech on the battlefield when it's not being trampled or in a smoking ruin. Hopefully they will implement some sort of recording feature that will allow you to replay a match in third person.

[Bansheedragon75]

Why is this thread still going?
There is no point in continuing this discussion, the devs have spoken and they have clearly no intention of changing their minds.

[Pht]

... apparently there are vocal group of people who really want to have some form of 3rd person.

This has been one of the recurring discussions in the MechWarrior Video game community for decades.

[Bansheedragon75]

Pht, on 07 August 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

... apparently there are vocal group of people who really want to have some form of 3rd person.

This has been one of the recurring discussions in the MechWarrior Video game community for decades.

I noticed, I lost count of the number of threads I have seen on the subject and they keep popping up.
Either old ones are necroed or new ones are being posted.

We should have a sticky on the top of the forums saying No 3rd Person

Edited by Dragonlord, 07 August 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[TizZ]

Actually you could say that if they made it possible to use 3 monitors , so you have the ability to see out of side windows that would also give an unfair advantage , They have to make it as uniform as possible if they are to achieve some sort of generic fair system so I have no problems playing how they want it to play because i will know everybody will be playing the same way .

[AzN HuMpa]

Hum....I've read a lot of excellent points on this thread and I say 3rd person view should be an option to switch to with, but with no added benefit to accuracy, but battle space visualization. I do agree it does detract from the realism of piloting a mech but damn it would be nice to see the little ****** light mechs swarming my assault mech's feet. They could just offer some sort of upgradable sensor suite package that displays in a proximity radar in your cockpit diplay (some what similar to Battlefield 3).