950 replies to this topic

[Melcyna]

for common purpose on earth, that's generally the case (ie: non scientific) since most branches outside science don't really deal with force anyway and the weight that is most commonly used on earth (ie: for business purpose usually) are only relevant for earth gravity so it's practical to use mass unit for weight there even if it is technically not right.

as far as BT setting is concerned though, they are not excused as they are supposedly living in an age where interstellar travel is not just uncommon but vital to the survival of the galactic empires that populate the lore...

Whereas for our non scientific purpose we can work with weight measured in the same unit as mass with no direct reference to earth's gravity constant, this is not logically the case for BT, in our case there's only earth as far as our most business practice is concerned... on BT case there's unknown number of planets out there...

Logically for an interstellar empire that has to shuttle materials frequently across space, the mass measurement unit would be the most reasonable choice since it's constant and the most vital information next to things like volume etc, needed by the ship transporting it across space...

the same applies to Battlemechs etc...

using weight as measured in mass unit for them would make no sense there since they r supposedly deployed in untold numbers of planets each of which have no guarantee of common gravity constant, and they had to be shuttled across space where the dropship would need to know it's mass and not weight in order to transport them properly.

[reign]

Brenden, on 04 August 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

- No one has made a 'mech heavier than 100 tons (Ares doesn't count)

Omega 150 ton WoB mech http://www.sarna.net...28BattleMech%29

Its tough as all hell on the battlefield... Our TT gm loves using them against us.

[zraven7]

I'm still stuck on Gauss Rifles having a max range under a mile.

[MeatForBrains]

- A smartphone could pretty much do all the "calculations" AND BALANCE of the gyro and neurohelmet.
- 100 tons is not NEARLY enough weight compared to the size of these 'Mechs. In real life 100 tons would probably be a medium size mech. An M1 Abrams weights 67 tons...

Edited by MeatForBrains, 08 July 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Wired]

I am not certain if it is listed here, but the reason they dont do things like use nukes and heavy aerial bombardments is a polite mutual accord between various people that EVERYONE needs factories, civilians, etc and to use certain weaponry which is guaranteed to absolutely obliterate a facility is counter productive.

Or, at least I think that is there. I am sure facilities get blown up all the time.

[Rawyn]

Wired, on 08 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

I am not certain if it is listed here, but the reason they dont do things like use nukes and heavy aerial bombardments is a polite mutual accord between various people that EVERYONE needs factories, civilians, etc and to use certain weaponry which is guaranteed to absolutely obliterate a facility is counter productive.

Or, at least I think that is there. I am sure facilities get blown up all the time.

It's called Ares Conventions

[Karl Streiger]

Rawyn, on 08 July 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

It's called Ares Conventions

And the 1st Succession War had shown that humanity can overthrown every rule or convention... not to mention the 3070s

[Allen Ward]

Don't know if this is a repost:

Missile weapons mystically reload although their dimensions and position totally deny that. Missile ammo can be placed anywhere on the Mech, usually in places where a) nobody sane would want them (next to the fusion plant) and they could never be transported to the missile firing device. Still it is no problem to fire volley after volley of dozens of them.

maybe it is some secret missile teleport reload mechanism...

[Allen Ward]

In BT Gauss rifles are considered to be complex and fragile weapon systems and use ammo that can explode.

Actually gauss weapon systems would be rather simple and sturdy, they have almost no moving parts and except for being "off power" or twisting/destroying the barrel (which is always displayed being way too short in BT/MWO) there is probably no way to destroy the weapon or stopping it from functioning. Gauss ammo should be some sort of super-heavy material slug ammo, no explosives required, they would only make the projectile LESS effective. It relies on speed and kinetic impact, the impact of a gauss projectile would create a huge amount of heat, melting through armor much thicker than displayed in BT and cause a huge explosion inside of the mech IS. Any ammo in the near vicinity would immediately explode. Gauss weapons would probably be the most devastating weapons available. They would need much less energy than lasers or even PPC, have more ammo available than stated (in MWO a gauss slugh weighs 100 kg, that is much more than this weapon system would need to penetrate and cause sufficient damage).

And the gauss ammo would most likely be highly radioavtice (after impact, not when loaded into the mech/gun), so probably not be allowed due to Ares Conventions or other agreements (?). The only downsides of the gauss weapons are size (by barrel length, very unpractical on a mech, no problem on tanks) and the huge cost for producing the ammunition (a lot of waste material to get super-heavy projectiles).

Edit: After reading a bit more on topic I found that gauss weapon systems are also very likely to create huge amounts of heat inside the weapon (due to the high acceleration of the projectile and air friction). FASA chose the complete opposite in almost any reasonable argument for or against gauss technology. Much of this was known in the eighties so I wonder if they mixed up everything by accident or if they just didn't care.

Edited by Allen Ward, 23 July 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Adridos]

Allen Ward, on 23 July 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

In BT Gauss rifles are considered to be complex and fragile weapon systems and use ammo that can explode.

And the gauss ammo would most likely be highly radioavtice (after impact, not when loaded into the mech/gun), so probably not be allowed due to Ares Conventions or other agreements (?).

Gauss ammo doens't explode at all and Ares Conventions have nothing to do with radioactivity itself (then mechs would be banned too), it's only Chancellor Liao's set of rules that turns warfare into a more orgnaised act to prevent civilian casualties and suffering when there is no need for it.

[Allen Ward]

Adridos, on 23 July 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Gauss ammo doens't explode at all and Ares Conventions have nothing to do with radioactivity itself (then mechs would be banned too), it's only Chancellor Liao's set of rules that turns warfare into a more orgnaised act to prevent civilian casualties and suffering when there is no need for it.

OK, I just guessed there could be something about using ammunition that creates radioactive dust over large areas ("...turns warfare into a more orgnaised act to prevent civilian casualties and suffering when there is no need for it").

Hmmm...ok it may not explode but in MWO I often get the info "Gauss ammo destroyed"... wonder what that means...it just fell out of the chassis? It's huge blocks of super-tight and heavy material (containing uranium or tungsten). Not necessarily shaped into conventional projectile slugs, it could actually be unshaped blobs. How do you destroy it?

[Adridos]

Allen Ward, on 23 July 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

OK, I just guessed there could be something about using ammunition that creates radioactive dust over large areas ("...turns warfare into a more orgnaised act to prevent civilian casualties and suffering when there is no need for it").

Hmmm...ok it may not explode but in MWO I often get the info "Gauss ammo destroyed"... wonder what that means...it just fell out of the chassis? It's huge blocks of super-tight and heavy material (containing uranium or tungsten). Not necessarily shaped into conventional projectile slugs, it could actually be unshaped blobs. How do you destroy it?

Radioactivity's realy not that much of a problem for them unless done in too big of a dose.

As far as that message is concerned, it's because BT has a counterweight for the lack of ammo destruction with gauss. That is, the capacitator in the gauss itself can explode and do said damage. And since it is for all intents an purposes the very sam as ammo explosion, they never bothered to change the message text.

Edited by Adridos, 23 July 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Allen Ward, on 23 July 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

Hmmm...ok it may not explode but in MWO I often get the info "Gauss ammo destroyed"... wonder what that means...it just fell out of the chassis? It's huge blocks of super-tight and heavy material (containing uranium or tungsten). Not necessarily shaped into conventional projectile slugs, it could actually be unshaped blobs. How do you destroy it?

Well tungsten or uranium alone will not work... you need a sabot of nickel or ferrum. - short a ferro magnetic material.
Inside of the bullet you can have - what material is available.

So you can create small arrow - APFSDS with a an arrow of tungsten
or a huge ball - with a mantle of nickel ferro and a core of concrete - or sand or rock.

If you ask me - based on the magical immunitiy to heavy weapon fire and the vulnerability towards physical attacks or falls...i would go fot huge projectiles with slow speed.

[KKillian]

If this was based on technology beyond the 80's I'd demand a Metal Storm mortar system mounted on my mech.

http://videos.howstu...storm-video.htm

Crazy aussies are gettin scary with the spam!

And whats with the oldschool phalanx AMS?!

http://www.neatorama...-missile-laser/

Fire one of these bad boys up on my sholder please!

[Jerod Symes]

ppl...really arguing over the plausibility of the concepts of this is beyond futile. I mean ffs a bipedal mech would be the world worst weapons platform ever conceived... It has by far too many weak spots, its far too complex and would probably be too expensive and thus would never be viable. I mean destroy the leg or knee joint and the whole thing is crippled. The entire thing can be taken out without even having to dent that impressive chest and torso armor...

[ValdnadHartagga]

Allen Ward, on 23 July 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

Hmmm...ok it may not explode but in MWO I often get the info "Gauss ammo destroyed"... wonder what that means...it just fell out of the chassis? It's huge blocks of super-tight and heavy material (containing uranium or tungsten). Not necessarily shaped into conventional projectile slugs, it could actually be unshaped blobs. How do you destroy it?

It seems possible for ammo to just leak out of the chassis. I believe in Blood Legacy, when Hollis is telling Kai about Yen-Lo-Wang's new Gauss Rifle, he talks about emergency muzzle loading and says something about "ammo spilling out your sides."

It's also possible that the ammo feed becomes damaged, rendering the ammo bin unusable (and thus "destroyed").

[GhostBear64]

Brenden, on 31 July 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

-They use metric still
-When a battlemech is cored, it does NOT go nuclear like most clear reactors do when damaged
-They can jump using jets, but not by crouching their legs and then suddenly flexing upward
-Pirates and Ninjas are still warring with eachother.

I don't get the Metric reference , of course they still use metric why mess with perfection !!

[GhostBear64]

Wired, on 08 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

I am not certain if it is listed here, but the reason they dont do things like use nukes and heavy aerial bombardments is a polite mutual accord between various people that EVERYONE needs factories, civilians, etc and to use certain weaponry which is guaranteed to absolutely obliterate a facility is counter productive.

Or, at least I think that is there. I am sure facilities get blown up all the time.

Actually nukes do exist in BT they just don't often get used because of the potential to kill oneself as well as ones enemy !!

[Elyam]

Actually, nukes are avoided in BT due to the need to not lose more critical infrastructure. The Inner Sphere by this point has a deep civilizational concern for loss of infrastructure (especially any nodes of science and technology)

[Skylarr]

Allen Ward, on 23 July 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

OK, I just guessed there could be something about using ammunition that creates radioactive dust over large areas ("...turns warfare into a more orgnaised act to prevent civilian casualties and suffering when there is no need for it").

Hmmm...ok it may not explode but in MWO I often get the info "Gauss ammo destroyed"... wonder what that means...it just fell out of the chassis? It's huge blocks of super-tight and heavy material (containing uranium or tungsten). Not necessarily shaped into conventional projectile slugs, it could actually be unshaped blobs. How do you destroy it?

The Gauss Ammo Bin does have HP. If it takes to much damage it can be destroyed. It does now blow up. You just loose acces to the ammo that was in that bin.