600 replies to this topic

[RynCage]

The game should have planetary mode [no-respawn esq matches take an active role in what faction controlls what planets], and a "instant action" mode. [respawn enabled slugfests for all the practice you could ever want].
Mad that you die early because of X reason and have to wait a round before you can fight again? Then don't play that game mode.
They can add more game modes or whatever they want from there based on how much the community likes/ dislikes how things are going.

Admittedly, if the game was ONLY no-respawn enviroments, new and ADHD players alike would get upset at how they spend the majority of the game dead instead of fighting.
But the other extreme is just as bad, If it was ONLY an unlimited respawn enviroment; Veterans and experianced players would get upset at the sheer number of teamates throwing the match since they had nowhere else to sharpen their skills, before jumping into the part of the game thats srs bzns.

[UncleKulikov]

I like how World of Tanks handles this. If you die in a match, you can leave but the tank that was used in the match can't be used to join in the next one (it's still a husk on the previous battlefield).

[xxREVxx]

I prefer no respawn. Makes for what I'd think would be a more realistic experience when players aren't charging into the center of the map and giving up kills to the other team over and over and over. With no respawn you see players utilizing teamwork, comms, and terrain features (at least the seasoned players do).
Just sayin

[osito]

this is a difficult problem to solve. i like the idea of no respawn in territory wars for more realism. they should also have a system set up for just fighting/training. those should be respawns. that way if you die early in game you can jump into a sim or solaris game and blast away. then when your team is done and the next territory fight is starting you are notified and can jump into the next team fight with your friends.

[ice trey]

I say "Get Booted", and get to find out the results later.

I think the respawn idea is rather silly and obviously eliminates some of the more immersive aspects of the Mechwarrior series, like concerning yourself with repairs (though I'd really like to see repairs being done at different locations resulting in increased/decreased probabilities of success, and no in-mission repairs).

But assuming that a death in the game doesn't have a respawn, dead players that remain on the server would, "mysteriously", be able to help team-mates from the dead through the use of voice chat. Even if it were blocked in-game, any clan or other such groups would be quick to use ventrillo or other software to circumvent that element.

If you kick the player after dying from the game in progress, there is no way they can help their team-mates.

Hopefully, TPTB will be tinkering with the game in a way that avoids people from making one-shot-kill 'mechs, so "Dying in the first 30 seconds of the match" would be something that could only be achieved by being stationary in the open while using a light 'mech.

Edited by ice trey, 10 January 2012 - 11:55 PM.

[Pharaoh]

with few exceptions, i don't see many advocating for re-spawns of any kind. it's almost inconceivable the way the game has been described so far that a particular match will see a pilot reappearing after any period of time if his mech has been destroyed/knocked out.

the first thing that came to mind for me is the game mechanic that has already been mentioned several times in this thread and seems to have no detractors so far: like world of tanks, you can either watch the match from the view of one of your teammates, or go back to your garage/hanger and queue up for a new match in a different mech.

i've had some bad nights where i still had a couple of dead tanks on the field when i started yet another match hoping for either better luck or tried a new tactic. there need not be much down-time, regardless. the only drawback is that very early on in careers, we may not have more than one or two mechs in the hanger.

i believe "early death in a 20 minute match" will be a non-issue, except of course when you see the repair bill.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

As I see it, respawn is out of the question, because you have a mech that can be damaged and must be repaired when damaged.
There is no line of identical copies of your mech in your backyard, so when your mech is taken out, you will have to wait until the match is over to recover what's left and repair it before using again.
Still, if you have more than one mech, maybe you may leave this particular battle to join some other in that second mech.

[Virgil Caine]

I think there should be respawns, but they should be costly. And it should require an active use of some sort of battlegrid thing.

Perhaps once your team completes a certain objective, another dropship of reinforcements deploys and you're in it.

Or perhaps if you eject from your mech, (rather than having it blow up from ammo explosion or engine failure) a salvage vehicle might be able to come in, and bring it back up to some semblance of working order, like in MechCommander.

Perhaps the commander or whoever can call in reinforcments at some point (his discretion) and you come in. Of course using whatever resource the Battlegrid requires. Perhaps in a different;possibly random; stock-configuration mech.

[renegade mitchell]

Dlardrageth, on 10 January 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Oh snap, I died only 5 minutes into the match, what to do, what to do?

• Get another (cold) beer from the fridge.
• Write down an actual note on a post-it and stick it to the screen's edge: "Leeroy Jenkins didn't get publicity for his awesome scouting skills..."
• Start to write an AAR for the unit... because whoever dies first gets that ****** job.
• Check the MWO forums for the newest troll outbreak.
• Go to my Mech hangar and fetch another ride to go into the next match.
• Make fun of the nOOb who died even before me because he thinks "tactics" is some sort of iPod applet.

And ultimately - make more fun of the nOOb who starts whining he died so fast and now has to totally waste 10 minutes of his real life doing something else. Then both teams utterly failed at understanding game mechanics and scouting and deservedly lost 20 minutes for nothing. What do you expect? Some PGI representative dropping in and handing out cookies because both teams were so incompetent that they couldn't even get the enemy spotted during 20 minutes? This is one of the occasions where the "Learn2Play" meme hits the point spot on. 2 teams of 12 Mechs each and noone managed to spot an enemy during 20 minutes? Sounds rather pathetic... and like completely the player's very own fault.

Listen troll, it happens to the best teams, especially when both teams are not camping.

[Dlardrageth]

Renegade Mitchell, on 11 January 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

Listen troll, it happens to the best teams, especially when both teams are not camping.

"It happens"? Not sure what exactly you are talking about, but in games I prefer to play such things only happen if both teams utterly fail. But then I'm obviously not a big fan of MW4, that might explain, amirite?

And even then... let's assume for the sake of the argument the map size in MWO would be roughly the same or a bit bigger than in MW4. And during 20 minutes, 24 players and their Mechs cannot make one single enemy contact? Yeah, right, sounds exactly like "the best teams"... just not for actual fighting. Or did you mean "best teams" for standing around and do Mech-posing?

You did by any chance read the part about "understanding game mechanics" and are aware the devs stated specifically Mechs will be crucial in different roles, this including scouting? Oh, and guess what, part of "scouting" is actually detecting the enemy, duh! Or did that one fly too far over your head? Okay, for some weird reason both teams might have been not smart enough to bring even one scout-capable Mech along. Well, classic failure then. To understand basic game mechanics.

So who's trolling here, huh? Guess another case of pot <->kettle...

[Barbaric Soul]

Elizander, on 10 January 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

If there is no respawn then a match probably should not last 20 minutes unless it is manually set up between two teams. People will barely have the patience to wait 2 minutes much less 20.

You think? I'll tell you from experience in running MWL. If people are playing a match that matters, they will do anything to win that match, whether that be camping and waiting for the other team to make a mistake(like the scout did in the scenario in the OP), run and hide to a totally defendable location where the other team has to come out of cover while they remain in cover,(seen this done plenty of times with over 20 minutes remaining in the game), I've even seen teams that will not engage and try to make drops be continually redropped until thier oposing team no longer has enough players to play the game. Whatever it takes to win is what some people will do, reguardless if the tactic is fun or not.

Edited by Barbaric Soul, 11 January 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Roughneck45]

i like the world of tanks method too.
they should let you drive a salvage truck around, picking up scrap from your downed mech and any others that go down, giving you increased credits/loot at the end of the mission. the trucks can be killed, and infinite respawns on them.
OR, you can just leave the match and start another one with a different pilot and mech that you have.

[Deltex]

Barantor, on 10 January 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

World of tanks style, that mech is out for you to use till that 20 min match is up but you can log out of that match and join another while you wait with a different mech.

Hopefully you learn from whatever mistake you made and keep playing. If you are in a match with friends you can talk to them while you wait for the round to be finished, probabaly in a spectator mode where you only see what they see.

Completely agree with this.

[Zyllos]

Honestly, I think the earliest you can die in a 20 minute match would be 15 minutes. The reasoning behind this is that it may take 5 to 10 minutes for players to find each other and begin fighting.

[T0RC4ED]

Sry guys, with no respawn or a long respawn timer your looking at a lot of one jump chumps (or drop in the case)...Dead...join new match rinse and repeat. I know most gamers play games to actualy play them, not to sit around waiting on the next round. Some of COD's game modes force a player to sit out for the rest of the round and I know I dont play those game types... and they usually have a limited following because noone wants to sit around reading a magazine wile waiting for the next match. More realistic... yes.... but not good for keeping players logged into the game.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Dlardrageth, on 11 January 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

"It happens"? Not sure what exactly you are talking about, but in games I prefer to play such things only happen if both teams utterly fail. But then I'm obviously not a big fan of MW4, that might explain, amirite?

And even then... let's assume for the sake of the argument the map size in MWO would be roughly the same or a bit bigger than in MW4. And during 20 minutes, 24 players and their Mechs cannot make one single enemy contact? Yeah, right, sounds exactly like "the best teams"... just not for actual fighting. Or did you mean "best teams" for standing around and do Mech-posing?

Try MWLL single-spawn play sometime, it is nothing like MW4. The maps are large enough where both teams can walk around for 20 minutes and not make radar contact, and that includes having a dedicated scout on each team. Especially because both teams will stick to the edges of a map and walk the perimeter. Walking into the middle of the map means you can be attacked on all aides. Along the edge of a map, you can only be attacked from one side.

It is also exceedingly common for one team to set up an ambush position and wait for the enemy to blunder into it. I've even played a 90 minute match where both sides set up an ambush and just waited.

Barbaric Soul nailed it. Players will do anything to win, that includes camping.

Edited by eldragon, 11 January 2012 - 06:46 AM.

[Korbyn McColl]

I definitely do not want the old standard respawn, where you're out of the fight for 20-30 seconds but then come right back in.

I can see four options:

1- If we were allowed out of our cockpits (which we aren't), running around on the field and visually spotting for our allies might work. But as slow as you'd travel compared to a mech, this would get boring fast.

2- Simply drop back to the lobby. You could opt to stay "in your mech" and possibly be able to communicate with your allies from there, but you could only give them short range visual information (kinda mimicking the above idea). Or you could simply say, "Good luck guys!" and drop out then, getting awarded for what you did while actually active.

3- Angry Mechs. Put in some mini-games to play while you wait for the match to end.

4- Reinforcements. You reappear on the drop ship. Reinforcement waves come in at X-Intervals in the match. So a 20 minute match may get one group of reinforcements at 8 minutes in and a second group at 15 minutes. If you die two minutes in, you have to sit on your hands till the first wave of reinforcements triggers, then you respawn. You die 12 minutes in, you respawn with the 15 minute reinforcements. I just don't want to have to kill the same person every 30 seconds or to be constantly fighting over the same objective. If your Lance destroys all enemy mechs surrounding your objective you should have time to secure that objective and move on to the next one before the guy you just killed comes running right back at you again.

[Mason Grimm]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeentlemen... Feed not your inner trolls!!! Can't we all just get along?

Allow me to play devils advocate....

Option #1 - Exit the Match and Find Another One (WoT Style)

This will appeal to the OCD type folks (of which I can be one, sometimes) who crave constant go go go go. You got popped? Great you log out, grab another mech (since this one is locked for the match) and drop on another match.

Good Points

• More matches = Faster money generation
  
• More matches = Faster experience increases (levels, mechs, whatever)
  
• We are entertained and so all is well in the unvierse

Bad Points

• You don't really learn as a team cause we are off doing other things/matches
  
• May reduce cohesive team situational awaerness since LoneWolfs will be like "I don't care, I'm off to another match)
  
• "Death" has very little real penalty. This affects the above point as well

Option #2 - Respawn While Match is in Progress

Again, this may appeal to those who crave constant action. You get popped? Oh well, you respawn and charge back in to action.

Good Points

• More matches = Faster money generation
  
• More matches = Faster experience increases (levels, mechs, whatever)
  
• We are entertained and so all is well in the unvierse

Bad Points

• Learning is hampered by the fact that death has zero meaning. Some may learn, most will not.
  
• "Death" has ZERO meaning
  
• Matches can only conclude once objectievs are met and not once no OPFOR remains
  
• May promote Spawn Camping!

Option #3 - Dagnabit, I Died!!! Now I've Gotta Sit This Out

This, despite my OCD, is the option I would support. At least the OPTION to remain (maybe a combo of option #1 and option #3 like WOT). This option would tend to meet the wants/needs of most people. There would, of course, have to be restrictions here like dead players can no longer interact through chat (verbal or text) to give away strategic information

Good Points

• Cohesive Unit Learning. See first hand what went wrong so you can avoid in the future
  
• For Merc Company or House Play you can learn the strengths of your unit members by observing them
  
• Fight Together, Die Together, Play Together.
  
• Death has REAL meaning other than "Oh well, so sad". You died so sit it out, grab a beer and watch
  
• Would allow you to take sexy screenshots of your boys in action with a floating camera!!!! Just sayin!

Bad Points

• This would bother those who don't care who they fight for as long as they fight (LoneWolf type players)
  
• Death actually has meaning now other than "Oooops, RESET button".
  
• Less Matches = Less Money and Less experience = longer climb to larger mechs

Edited by Mason Grimm, 11 January 2012 - 07:25 AM.

[Dlardrageth]

eldragon, on 11 January 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

[...]It is also exceedingly common for one team to set up an ambush position and wait for the enemy to blunder into it. I've even played a 90 minute match where both sides set up an ambush and just waited.

Barbaric Soul nailed it. Players will do anything to win, that includes camping.

I'm well aware of the camping issue and some people having a fancy for trying to "sit out" matches. But that is their decision and accordingly their problem if they opt do so. The point is they can do differently. It is neither PGI's job nor anyone else's fault if some players cannot be bothered to try to detect the enemy. The premise I initially replied to was:

Renegade Mitchell, on 10 January 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

[...] I was in a bunch of no respawn matches that lasted an hour or more. What happens when the limited 20 minutes are up on these large maps and neither team have found one another? It does happen.

It is not about not trying to find the enemy here. It is stating a premise that effectively they could not find them. And that taxes my suspension of disbelief somewhat (avoiding to say it's outright stupid). Especially if I assume players that have half a clue what they're doing. Your points are totally valid, eldragon, but not really the problem. I did play a couple of MW4 matches myself back in the days, so I'm not buying this premise.

And I tend to agree with Mason Grimm... for once. (j/k)

His option 3 sounds most realistic, although we have to consider the "Lone Wolf" angle of people joining a battle not
teamed up with buddies/unit and thus having no need to wait for them to come out. So yeah, combo of option 1 & 3 sounds good to me.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 11 January 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Let them hide. We have "Objectives" to complete anyways. All the enemy ever really does is get killed in the end anyways.