174 replies to this topic

[Vexgrave Lars]

I have always thought the less affable a man is towards making declarative statements, the less apt he is to look a fool later.

See you all on the battlefield...

[SMDMadCow]

GI Journalist, on 29 February 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

"And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!" -Max Liao

House Liao gives credit where credit is due, where as House Davion chronically underestimates its opponents. That is why they failed to crush House Liao when they had the chance, and it's why the Federated Commonwealth won't last as a united nation.

My advice to Davion fans is to stop believing your own propaganda. The peasants that support your fiefdom aren't nearly as free as you make them out to be. Neither are the citizens of the Capellan Confederation the brainwashed drones you believe them to be. Mistakes like these are what cost you the decisive victory you wanted in the Fourth Succession War, and it will continue to cost you dearly on the battlefield. We've tried to explain it to you for years, but you still have the gall to be surprised when the "liberated" planetary populations turn on you.

Strange, isn't it?

Wow. Way wrong regarding the 4th Succession War. Canonically incorrect. Historically innacurate even. The whole reason House Davion didnt crush House Liao is because of the interference of Comstar. Comstar dressed up their own units in Davion colors and then blew up one of their HPG stations which gave them an excuse to interdict House Davions communications. That reason and that alone is what saved House Liao.

Also, its not our fault all your civilians suffer from a severe case of stockholm syndrome

[GI Journalist]

SMDMadCow, on 29 February 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Wow. Way wrong regarding the 4th Succession War. Canonically incorrect. Historically innacurate even. The whole reason House Davion didnt crush House Liao is because of the interference of Comstar. Comstar dressed up their own units in Davion colors and then blew up one of their HPG stations which gave them an excuse to interdict House Davions communications. That reason and that alone is what saved House Liao.

I'm not convinced that is common knowlege, but I conceed that ComStar interference during the 4th Succession War was the decisive factor in blunting the Davion offensive. By the same token, you must admit that the main advantage the Fed Com held during the war was the infiltration of the Capellan intelligence network by Justin Allard. When he finally abandoned his position, even though much of the damage had already been done, the FedCom lost its best weapon against the Confederation. House Davion crushing House Liao now seems extremely unlikely, especially since Justin has gone and married into the family.

However, I would still argue that House Davion has a tendency to underestimate its opponents. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say Davion intelligence is so accurate and relied upon by their military that their strategic plans fall apart whenever an outside X factor interfers. Recall how ComStar exploited this again in 3039 by secretly providing House Kurita with Star League BattleMechs.

I'm the first to admit that House Liao nearly collapsed through its critical failures. Max Liao's failures, such as planting the double of Hanse Davion and embracing Justin Allard into his House, were huge. What I don't understand is how Davion fans think this translates into some kind of moral superiority for their faction, which can be just as sneaky and ruthless.

[Thorn Hallis]

Comstars interdiction can hardly be taken as a reason for the end of the Davion offensive - at least not from a military standpoint. The AFFS did not use the HPG network to carry out orders, they used there jumpship fleet.
So it seems the rulers of the Federated Suns lacked the confidence that their "oh-so-free"-citizens would endure the hardships of the interdiction for a year or so without starting rebellions...or they just knew it because their citizens weren't that free after all.

[Punisher 1]

Eh, its all about what type of Mercs you hire. Personally I like well kept House mechs less to worry about mechanically, low weapon useage, so I look forward to obtaining all that equipment as you beat yourselves to death and my bank account and arsenal grows ..... I hope that Leopoard class drop ship can hold alot.

[SMDMadCow]

GI Journalist, on 01 March 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

I'm not convinced that is common knowlege, but I conceed that ComStar interference during the 4th Succession War was the decisive factor in blunting the Davion offensive. By the same token, you must admit that the main advantage the Fed Com held during the war was the infiltration of the Capellan intelligence network by Justin Allard. When he finally abandoned his position, even though much of the damage had already been done, the FedCom lost its best weapon against the Confederation. House Davion crushing House Liao now seems extremely unlikely, especially since Justin has gone and married into the family.

Yes, Justin Allard was a huge advantage. Not only from the spying gig, but his relationship with Candace was instrumental in breaking the St Ives Compact away from the Cap Con. By the time he was pulled out it was probably believed by the AFFC high command that the rest of the campaign would be easy, then wham with the Comstar interdiction.

Quote

However, I would still argue that House Davion has a tendency to underestimate its opponents. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say Davion intelligence is so accurate and relied upon by their military that their strategic plans fall apart whenever an outside X factor interfers. Recall how ComStar exploited this again in 3039 by secretly providing House Kurita with Star League BattleMechs.

Yeah, that one was definitely a curve ball. The Kurita’s pulled a good move, can’t fault them for that, but Comstar interference again….

Quote

I'm the first to admit that House Liao nearly collapsed through its critical failures. Max Liao's failures, such as planting the double of Hanse Davion and embracing Justin Allard into his House, were huge. What I don't understand is how Davion fans think this translates into some kind of moral superiority for their faction, which can be just as sneaky and ruthless.

Oh most definitely, House Davion can be just as sneaky. I think most people see it as “the good guys doing what’s needed for the good of all” sunshine up the bum stuff. I personally don’t hold any qualms about morality, the House will do what the House will do because that is what the House wants.

Edited by SMDMadCow, 04 March 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[SMDMadCow]

Thorn Hallis, on 01 March 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Comstars interdiction can hardly be taken as a reason for the end of the Davion offensive - at least not from a military standpoint. The AFFS did not use the HPG network to carry out orders, they used there jumpship fleet.
So it seems the rulers of the Federated Suns lacked the confidence that their "oh-so-free"-citizens would endure the hardships of the interdiction for a year or so without starting rebellions...or they just knew it because their citizens weren't that free after all.

You really have no idea how important the Comstar operated HPGs are for communications. What you’re thinking of are the Black Boxes that the fleet carried which allowed House Davion to complete objectives but the things aren’t up to par with HPGs in terms of the amount of data they can send, how far they can send, or how quickly they can send. While they did help, they were no replacement.
The only worrying the rulers were doing was about how to keep the free people of the Fed Com free of the tyranny of the other house lords. The interdiction kept communication of the “pony express” style of drop ships traveling between systems – slow and inefficient. Which means any news of invasion would be weeks old by the time it got to the March Command. Hanse Davion realized this and is why he agreed to have the Com Guard garrison the HPGs in Fed Suns space.

[Charles Martel]

Simon Osis, on 15 January 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

All of you "free birth" scum will be crushed by the might of the CLAN'S!!!

ALL HAIL TO THE REBIRTH OF THE MIGHTY CLAN SMOKE JAGUAR!!!

Alfa Star Colonel-Simon Osis

*Yawn*

I guess that means we'll just have to kill it again. Fun times.

Edited by Charles Martel, 06 March 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[SMDMadCow]

Charles Martel, on 06 March 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

*Yawn*

I guess that means we'll just have to kill it again. Fun times.

Race ya to Huntress.

[Charles Martel]

SMDMadCow, on 06 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Race ya to Huntress.

And people say we can't cooperate.

[Thorn Hallis]

SMDMadCow, on 04 March 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

You really have no idea how important the Comstar operated HPGs are for communications. What you’re thinking of are the Black Boxes that the fleet carried which allowed House Davion to complete objectives but the things aren’t up to par with HPGs in terms of the amount of data they can send, how far they can send, or how quickly they can send. While they did help, they were no replacement.
The only worrying the rulers were doing was about how to keep the free people of the Fed Com free of the tyranny of the other house lords. The interdiction kept communication of the “pony express” style of drop ships traveling between systems – slow and inefficient. Which means any news of invasion would be weeks old by the time it got to the March Command. Hanse Davion realized this and is why he agreed to have the Com Guard garrison the HPGs in Fed Suns space.

They did not use the HPG network for military communications during the 4th Succession Wars. All military orders were carried by jumpships and black boxes.

[Brian Banzai]

This is the ONLY reason Davion did so well in the 4th succession war.

Agent Stackpole was somehow able to rewrite the laws of time and space by having a Davion double agent on Sian learn about a Death Commando strike a week after they were already in system and burning towards Kathil and still manage to get word of this to Morgan Hasik Davion who then gathered together a national guard unit, throw it together at the last second and then defeat the best trained and equipped MechWarriors in the inner sphere with militia grade mechs and no training. Forgetting that the Ulhains could not have even known about the Death Commando strike until it was far too late.

This Davion Agent then allowed the cobbled together unit of weekend warriors to travel to the capitol world of the Confederation and once again defeat an elite Warrior House that are on full standby at all times, retrieve their double agent and manage to lift off from the most heavily guarded planet in Capellan space. Lets just bend all laws of reason and assume that the triple strength myomer debacle would have allowed them to defeat the warrior house troops, their dropship would still have been blown from the sky within minutes of trying to lift off. Lets assume they were then able to run a gauntlet of Liao fighters and dropships that would have them outnumbered 4000 to 1, they would still have to make it to the jumpship meaning that any number of other Capellan ships in near space would also have the chance to have utterly destroyed them.

Geeze, when you lay it out logically, you would have been able to drive a jumpship through the plot holes that allowed the Davion's to win the 4th succession war.


If any Davion players would like to replay this battle using the writer's own stats for the Ulhain pilots, and we could run the Warrior house mechs, even with the defective TSM's, we all know what the real outcome would be.

Michael Stackpole's logic is Liao BAAAAADDDDD, Davion GUUUUUUDDDD, Davion win, UGH, good book.

[Dihm]

Man, those Liao troops must really stink, and that's the best of the Confed? You guys need to get a higher quality recruit!

[Catamount]

Do you have to wipe Liao off the map? I'd rather not share more of a direct border with Davion than we already do (good to know the Capellans are good for SOMETHING).

Now going and killing Smoke Jaguar... again... that I'd be up for

[Brian Banzai]

Dihm, on 07 March 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Man, those Liao troops must really stink, and that's the best of the Confed? You guys need to get a higher quality recruit!

Yea, says the man that has what? 3 planets left of your house?
I'm sorry Kettle, did you say something?

[Adridos]

maxoconnor, on 07 March 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Yea, says the man that has what? 3 planets left of your house?
I'm sorry Kettle, did you say something?

*cough* He's *cough* a *cough* merc.*cough*

[Brian Banzai]

Adridos, on 07 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

*cough* He's *cough* a *cough* merc.*cough*

Really? looks like he has a Rasalhague affiliation to me.

[Adridos]

maxoconnor, on 07 March 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Really? looks like he has a Rasalhague affiliation to me.

He makes himself look as one of them, talking about the saving of FRR, blah, blah,...

But, behind the courtain, he assembles a merc unit (which doesn't make sense, since FRR hates mercs even more than Kuritans and Clans together), which he is going to lead. Isn't he evil?

[Brian Banzai]

And I thought being a Loyal Highlander and Loyal Capellan was messed up.

[Dihm]

Pretty weak trolling there Adridos, keep trying.

And Max, obviously you didn't notice the tongue firmly planted in cheek.