179 replies to this topic

[TheRulesLawyer]

So what do people think about having a mechlab?
Its sort of a staple of the mechwarrior universe. Its a big part of the board game rules. Lets examine the Pros and cons.

Pro
Follows the books better
allows more choice
allows sale of items
allows upgrades

Cons
leads to min/max mech designs
less reasons to buy a new chassis
hard to judge threat until its too late.

We've been running a campaign of battletech where we have pretty much unlimited refit capability and I'm honestly not that happy with it. Too much choice. Too little reason to move on and try something different. Why pick up a new mech for scout missions when you can just refit the one you have? I'd much rather see people with a large stable of book mechs than just a couple custom ones.

I'm leaning towards limited refit ala mw4. Unless you're an omni mech you can only change out weapons for other weapons (or combo of weapons) that use the same or less in crits, tons, *and* are the same type. For example, I could swap a PPC for several medium laser, but not an ac/2. If you've played mw4 you know what I'm talking about.

Edited by TheRulesLawyer, 01 November 2011 - 02:03 PM.

[Woodstock]

I have to say I liked the MW4 system.

It felt flexible but not toooo open.



Rik

[man o war]

I voted for the MW 4 system. Seems more realistic too.

[Stormwolf]

I prefer the original boardgame construction rules (like MW2 and 3).

Though you shouldn't be able to alter engines or internal structures. Regular mechs should have long refit times, omni's should be easy to refit (this would only apply to components within the podspace).

Not sure on wether or not armor levels should altered all that easily.

Edited by stormwolf, 01 November 2011 - 01:34 PM.

[Roh]

I know nothing about battletech or the books. But if I can't customize my Mech they better have at least six(preferably more) load outs for each mech in the game. Else I'll not be paying or even playing the game.

More reasonable options = good

Lazy lack of options = complete fail

[Wieland Calhoun]

Customizing my mech is half the fun for me. I'd support long refit times, etc. though.

[Project Dark Fox]

I do vote for a MW4-like system. However, I don't want things like internal structure, engines and gyros (heat sinks and armor are OK) to be modifyable like in MechWarrior 2: Mercenaries (Mercanary Commander mode). This can encourage MechWarriors to purchase faster or slower 'Mechs for varying amounts of space.
And OmniMechs should come at a serious premium for having no weapon/heat sink restrictions, being very true OmniMechs. Not a single game has done this properly.

[Lightfoot]

MW4 system was good. 'Mechs had individual abilities, but still had varied configs and, the experienced player knew what they might be facing in combat against each one.

Mechlab is a 'must have' feature. It sets MechWarrior apart from every other action game or sim game since a 'mech carries such a large payload of weapons. Your not just switching a weapon, your switching up to 16 weapons. That changes everything.

Mechlab is MechWarrior's most dynamic feature.

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 November 2011 - 01:52 PM.

[trycksh0t]

I would also be good with the MW4-style lab, but no internal structure or engine refits, that type of work was only really done with new production runs, not for individual warriors.

[Cranston Snord]

I'm killing myself to understand how allowing customization, which was exceedingly rare in canon, will allow MWO to be closer to canon.

[Erhardt]

I voted for the traditional Mechlab, but I'll be first in line to say the Mercs Mechlab, after MekTek got done with it, was an excellent compromise between unfettered customization and reasonable gameplay.

[Darklord]

No to mech lab
Having a mech lab with make balancing alot harder
Go with the variants instead.Gives us choice but no crazy setup to worry about balancing.


DL

[IS Wolf]

Preferred the MW2: Mercenaries style myself.
If, I want to rip out that AC on my Clint and replace it with a PPC or a Large Laser, than I can.
Just have to have the C-Bills for it.

Also, rather depends on how they handle salvage, considering the price of a new mech.
To reference back to MW2, the mechs I got for my lance were ones I salvaged, considering the prices for a brand new one.
And I subsequently adapted them all to be either energy based or with more ammo efficiency (streaks), considering you also had to pay for the ammo. Mercs need to be paid, and running a lance can get expensive, with some of the stock models, like say the Jagermech, Trebuchet, Javelin or Highlander.

trycksh0t, on 01 November 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

I would also be good with the MW4-style lab, but no internal structure or engine refits, that type of work was only really done with new production runs, not for individual warriors.

Oh really? Never heard of Yen-lo-****? Or the Bounty Hunter with his modified Marauder? Major General Archer Christefori with his modified Penetrator? Avanti's Angels has numerous customized mechs, and the list just goes on and on.

Edited by IS-Wolf, 01 November 2011 - 02:03 PM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

roh, on 01 November 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

I know nothing about battletech or the books. But if I can't customize my Mech they better have at least six(preferably more) load outs for each mech in the game. Else I'll not be paying or even playing the game.

More reasonable options = good

Lazy lack of options = complete fail

There typically aren't that many official variants. It should be simple to allow for all variants in use by the in game date though. I'm not suggesting they do this out of laziness, but to make the game play better. I had far more fun running the flawed book mechs in MPBT 3025 than I ever did running full custom mechs in mw3 and mw4 online. I wouldn't want to see them create a ton of non-canon variants, but I would be okay with limited customization. Perhaps custom mechs would pay a premium in repair costs, plus a hefty up front conversion cost? Custom work always costs more and takes longer than stock stuff IRL.

[Erhardt]

trycksh0t, on 01 November 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

I would also be good with the MW4-style lab, but no internal structure or engine refits, that type of work was only really done with new production runs, not for individual warriors.

Well then we have the problem of nobody being able to make their own baby. Who hasn't wanted to build a mech completely from scratch? yeah, I totally get that it invites all kinds of crazy min/maxing, but still... I think it's important that players have the ability to build their very own scratch design. If you don't want to face them, they should have a toggle for allowing only stock mechs.

that said, I don't think it sounds like this is how MWO will work, since it's a persistent universe and all. We still need to learn more about Piranha's plans, but from what I gather so far, customization may be limited.

[Wahlnutz]

I'm up for refitting, but there should be a large C-Bill/Time sink to get the changes on the Variant you currently posses.

[Lily of Thrace]

I like the MW4 system over the other ones I've encountered.
Come to think of it...
Anyway, MW4 system. But I'd like much more visual customisation to be available. Even if I have to spend the odd penny or two to get things done.

[Samson]

I have some concern regarding min/maxing but I don't think that we can't have the mechlab. If there is a time limit on how frequently, or long, it takes to customize a loadout that would be a positive things. Or have some items/weapons/equipment be hardfixed into a chasis. For example you could swap out your PPC for a large pulse, but that C3 or BAP is there to stay.

Personally I'd like to have the ability to drop a small laser or a MG for an extra half ton of armor.

[kusanagi]

Torn on this one.

I love to tinker with configs but as others have said it could be hell to balance. So while it goes against my instincts a limited mech lab may lead to better game.

[SteveRestless]

I would prefer a straight-up pure mechlab.

It doesnt make sense, especially in the case of omnimechs to limit them mechwarrior4 style. Maybe Mech4 style refits for non-omnis, and Full Customizability within the constraints of a base chassis for Omnimechs?