137 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

qultar, on 16 August 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

my bet is that it will make mech of claners 5 on 8 or 10 on 12

^ This. The most logical solution here is to add a Clan faction(or several) and limit the Mechs to that faction. They could then balance the PvP numbers. The Clans operate in 5 Mech stars, unlike the 4 Mech lances of the Inner Sphere. This means they can directly balance the game for 5 vs 8 or 10 vs 12 without having to gut Clan Tech down. This would be fun too as the Inner Sphere side would have to use more teamwork where as the Clanners could just run around as rambo and benefit more from solo play. This basically means every player will be happy. We would be able to pick a side and they would both be very different in Mechs used and mindset. If this comes to pass I'll likely be staying with Inner Sphere.

[Freeride Forever]

Incunabulum, on 16 August 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Why are so many people in love with them to the extent that even thoug MW:O is still in beta they keep asking when clans will be introduced.

For me, even though clan tech is teh awesomes, who the heck can have a ****** for a society with a rigid class system that eschews scientific and technological advance for the ability to be the best dueller around, to the point that they suck in large-scale warfare?

It can't be about the possibility of conflict - the smallest IS polity has more going on in this area than any of the clans.

I'm hardly a BT "aficionado" but I think you're confused, or missing some info. Or else I am. The clans utilize genetic engineering to "build" the best warriors possible. They have superior technology to the Inner Sphere & they had to start from scratch when they left the IS. So how is it that they are the ones failing scientifically/technologically? As far as politics go, with the exception of the FRR (which has a relatively impotent presence), you have nothing but a bunch of dictatorships in one flavor or another so how in the IS any better there?

As I understand it, the ultimate goal of the Clans was to restore the IS to its utopian status when they gained the power to do so. Then as the necessary growth required to do so occurs & the population grows, more & more fucktards hungry for for power, money & status inevitably come along & defile the primary purpose to the point that it may end up being forgotten or just not really seem to matter, at least not to the ones that were supposed to be fighting for it. Not all the clans are the same, but even if they were & even if they were as douchey as most of the IS, I'd rather be on the technologically superior side. A sense of honor may have contaminated their tactics sometimes even to the point of losing some battles, but that same sense of honor will build a better society when the dust settles. If they let that sense of honor lead to defeat, then they didn't deserve to win anyway. They accomplished much more in any given amount of time than the corrupted Inner Sphere did so they're obviously quick learners. The Clans are evidently the more intelligent society & given comparable numbers & resources, they will dominate.

[NessOnett]

Meh. I am mostly concerned with content. The sheer number of mechs and weapons that exist right now, as well as a single game mode, is the ost crippling feature as this game sits(and yes, i realize its a beta, im not complaining, just stating a fact). The invasion of the clans means a massive influx of new weapons, new mechs, and hopefully some more physical structure(game modes, missions, faction choice? etc) coupled with it. Id be happy to get any of these things in IS form. But it has been very slow going to far. And the invasion brings the promise of a swell of new content.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Incunabulum, on 16 August 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Why are so many people in love with them to the extent that even thoug MW:O is still in beta they keep asking when clans will be introduced.

For me, even though clan tech is teh awesomes, who the heck can have a ****** for a society with a rigid class system that eschews scientific and technological advance for the ability to be the best dueller around, to the point that they suck in large-scale warfare?

It can't be about the possibility of conflict - the smallest IS polity has more going on in this area than any of the clans.

unlike the I.S the clans prefer to be conservative, the ammount of resoruces and life required to wage a full scale war would be wastefull in there eyes.

the I.S are greedy and only after one thing to become the first lord of the star league and rule humanity under there laws.

[Ryven Kael]

In my opinion one word sir. Omnimechs.

[Hades Trooper]

Hayden, on 16 August 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

As a guy firmly stuck in 3025, I think the dev team is missing the boat by starting the game so close to the clan invasion. They could have easily spent a year or two in the 3025-3049 era, which has the advantage of being much easier to balance than the mess after 3050. The clans are too popular not to include, but I think by chomping at the bit for clans so early the community misses out on some of the most easily balanced elements of BT canon. I suspect the timeline will only go forward from the release date, and so I and others like me can kiss off the 4th Succession War, War of 3039, and the numerous other small scale conflicts taking place in this time frame.

I also cut my teeth on Mechwarrior 2. the first game was shockingly bad graphics, my flatmate had it and i looked at it a few times, but was more interested in my table top gaming. then Mechwarrior 2 came out. I liked what i saw. i played clan mechs, i didn't know better and i enjoyed myself.

so even though i've played every edition of mechwarrior since Mechwarrior 2, i find myself wanting my Summoner and Behemoth.

[Sander the Shark]

I agree the Clans are not too impressive, once you get past their technology, which is essentially a preservation and slight progression of Star League tech.

Although that said I have a great deal of respect for Clan Diamond Shark, and not just for their name.

TG Xarbala, on 16 August 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

CWiE inflicted the Hellstar on us, the most boring `Mech to play as or against, and that's unforgivable.

Well lucky for you we won't be seeing it for 30 years.

[Hades Trooper]

Bluten, on 16 August 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

If you want a faction similar to America go with Federated Suns.(Davion)

LOL, House Davion is French in hertiage. an we all know how much Amercians hack on the French yet they seem to follow house Davion in droves. Go figure?

[Hades Trooper]

Star Ace, on 16 August 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

What I do not understand is how clan tech can be implemented without seriously unbalancing the game, because most powergamers won't adhere to any sort of honor code, Zellbrigen or otherwise. Some players only play to win, and will get whatever advantage they can to do so (the IS mentality with the Clan firepower). I cannot imagine most Clan opponents not ganging up on IS Mechs with superior Tech. It makes sense in the tabletop game, since things can be balanced, but in a game where a few members of the population care about power more than the lore, I wonder how will this finally play out.

Note that I am not saying clans are bad, or their 'Mechs "suck", whatever. I of course don't like their eugenics stuff, but I do like some of the Mechs. I just don't see people role-playing the clans; they will probably powerplay instead.

Hope the above doesn't come offensive, as I am sure some people in here would love to roleplay their favorite clan faction when finally available.

most of you IS junkies always seem to forget that Zellbrigen is for clan on clan combat. you IS scum don't deserve honourable combat, your sly underhanded nature shows that you should be swatted like flys and crush with superior firepower at every chance. I for one will focus fire on IS mechs are every chance. If and when there is clan on clan combat i will honour Zellbrigen as intended for HONOURABLE opponents

[Hayden]

Hades Trooper, on 07 September 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

I also cut my teeth on Mechwarrior 2. the first game was shockingly bad graphics, my flatmate had it and i looked at it a few times, but was more interested in my table top gaming. then Mechwarrior 2 came out. I liked what i saw. i played clan mechs, i didn't know better and i enjoyed myself.

so even though i've played every edition of mechwarrior since Mechwarrior 2, i find myself wanting my Summoner and Behemoth.

And I want you to have your Summoner and Behemoth, too. But the thing about a timeline is that I doubt it will ever go in reverse. As in, once the clans arrive, they and their technology will be in-game for the duration. Which is fine. But before that, I kind of hope we get a bit more of the pre-clan, pre-lost tech gameplay. Then we can move on.

[Aaydin]

Aside from mechwarrior 2, I can't think of a single game that was about the clans, they're all about the inner sphere and that got really boring for me. I also really like the clan mechs' aesthetics and such much more and that could be due to coming aboard with MW2.

Also, *** are you talking about? The clans have the best technology around, that's what drove them for a long time and allowed them to beat the inner sphere for as long as they did.

[Mechwarrior Horse]

Star Ace, on 16 August 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

It is noteworthy that under the newer rules, such Warhawks (or any other similarly equipped 'Mech) can no longer make aimed shots with the Targeting Computer and Pulse Lasers (although the significant -3 bonus for normal attacks remains.) This seemingly minor rule change is very significant, and a welcome edition to the old rules.

IS also gets a heavier/bulkier TComp much later, which is probably irrelevant for the sakes of MWO.

Huh, I must have missed that, but I have to say I like it! along with the new partial cover rules (+1 TH instead of +3 but any hit loc rolled thats behind cover is wasted) means that 0 gunnery PL/TC so and so's dont just treat a mech in partial cover as a cheap headshot.

[iVOO]

Hades Trooper, on 07 September 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

most of you IS junkies always seem to forget that Zellbrigen is for clan on clan combat. you IS scum don't deserve honourable combat, your sly underhanded nature shows that you should be swatted like flys and crush with superior firepower at every chance. I for one will focus fire on IS mechs are every chance. If and when there is clan on clan combat i will honour Zellbrigen as intended for HONOURABLE opponents

^this


I never played the TT, nor did i read any BT novels - therefore no RP stuff for me. I first got in touch with MW2 and since then i was a sold out fan to this franchise. From time to time i used to read some general info about BT on various wiki sites and the usual "accusations" here from people on this forum are close to being purely made up.

There is only one reason i prefer clans: their philosophy behind their mechs.

[Davison]

Two reasons the Clans will become the destination for every single kid looking for an easy break; Superior tech, and easy wins via massed fire. Sorry, but I'll believe otherwise when I see it, given all the whine threads about wanting their Timber Wolves.

...Here's an idea though... And I'm sure I'll have at least a thousand nerd rages over this. Limit Clan mechs to Clans (save for EXPENSIVE purchases via the black market with equally innane maintenence costs for an Inner Sphere Mechwarrior to keep one running... Sorry kiddies, Clantech is NOT produced in the Inner Sphere), and put them in canon formations; one Star of five should be a match for two lances of four Inner Sphere mechs...

Further, separate the currency. The Inner Sphere gets C-Bills. Give Clansmen Glory. No easy grinding C-bills via Clan Omnimechs that way. *listens for the outrage to start... Smiling insinscerely*

[Codex]

Hades Trooper, on 07 September 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

I also cut my teeth on Mechwarrior 2. the first game was shockingly bad graphics, my flatmate had it and i looked at it a few times, but was more interested in my table top gaming. then Mechwarrior 2 came out. I liked what i saw. i played clan mechs, i didn't know better and i enjoyed myself.

so even though i've played every edition of mechwarrior since Mechwarrior 2, i find myself wanting my Summoner and Behemoth.

The Stone Rhino (Behemoth) is one of my absolute favorite 'Mechs out there, but sadly, it is Unseen, which means no chance of it ever being in MWO. :-(

[Snowcaller]

From playing the Mechwarrior P'n'D RPG in settings from 2nd to 4th Succession War.
I have to say the helm core years were great fun, robbing Lostech off of enemy houses/mercs/comstar.
When the era went to '49-'55, it just shifted from blatting units and nicking their lostech for your current frankenmech, to blatting clans.

People who play as clans never got the joy of mugging them for their shizzle.

I don't care much for the aesthetics of most FASA mech's, whether Clan or IS.

I like unseens and their "let's fighting love!" anime badness .

"Protect my balls!"

Edit: Typotardation required de-tarding
Edit 2: I am aware that Lostech wasn't lostech to Comstar, it was just tech as they never lost it.

Edited by Snowcaller, 08 September 2012 - 02:36 AM.

[Mechwarrior Horse]

Davison, on 08 September 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Two reasons the Clans will become the destination for every single kid looking for an easy break; Superior tech, and easy wins via massed fire. Sorry, but I'll believe otherwise when I see it, given all the whine threads about wanting their Timber Wolves.

...Here's an idea though... And I'm sure I'll have at least a thousand nerd rages over this. Limit Clan mechs to Clans (save for EXPENSIVE purchases via the black market with equally innane maintenence costs for an Inner Sphere Mechwarrior to keep one running... Sorry kiddies, Clantech is NOT produced in the Inner Sphere), and put them in canon formations; one Star of five should be a match for two lances of four Inner Sphere mechs...

Further, separate the currency. The Inner Sphere gets C-Bills. Give Clansmen Glory. No easy grinding C-bills via Clan Omnimechs that way. *listens for the outrage to start... Smiling insinscerely*

I was actually thinking along the same lines. Clans are meant to be socialist anyway, they mostly barter and warriors are just assigned what they need for their mech.

Not sure if honour would work as straight currency (e.g prestige points in say, panzer general) or just be a general level- if you are "exalted", you get access to better gear. If you are "unblooded" you get basic gear. If you become "dezgra" you'll get the castoffs.
Suppose you could work it like the ratings in elite,0 points was "harmless", going up through ranks to "elite", i.e precisely how many honour points you have really doesnt matter, just the general level with better stuff available at milestones.

I think this could also serve to enforce zellbrigen.
Steal a kill? thats - honour at the end of the match.
Gang up on one mech? -honour.
Defeat an atlas in a dasher? BIG honour.
Swat a jenner in a daishi? well, that not very impressive is it?

And so on. I have to admit that even after reading the jade falcon trilogy i'm not 100% sure how zell works. Is zell satisfied with unit vs unit bidding and solo duels are just a bonus? can't see how TAG and semiguided lrms/ arrow 4 fit in otherwise.

[Toothman]

Incunabulum, on 16 August 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Why are so many people in love with them to the extent that even thoug MW:O is still in beta they keep asking when clans will be introduced.

For me, even though clan tech is teh awesomes, who the heck can have a ****** for a society with a rigid class system that eschews scientific and technological advance for the ability to be the best dueller around, to the point that they suck in large-scale warfare?

It can't be about the possibility of conflict - the smallest IS polity has more going on in this area than any of the clans.

Its so people too lazy to become good at a game can get the "good" equipment in order for them to have a chance against the rest of the player base. Someone else already mentioned that it allows them to act like Richards without punishment. For all their talk of honor and fairness, when it comes to fighting the inner sphere they sure did stack the deck in their favor. Then again what do you want, they were made in a test tube and grown in a can.

[empath]

Atlas3060, on 16 August 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Well the easiest snarky comment I can make is some folks like the idea of being a Clanner.
After all you get to be the biggest (Censored) in human space and not get punished for it.

...well, unless you're a Smoked Kitty...

[C Bone]

Personally, I did like the aestetic of the clan 'mechs more. I also liked the culture and other story elements that brought into the lore, even if I did not agree with them. I guess I also liked the irony they brought to the universe on so many levels.

Once you bring them onto the table, the love affair ends though. Though the dynamic of having superior tech balanced out with zelbringen and/or batchall was a fine one, it would rarely translate into usable rules when it came to dealing with Clan/IS scenarios. One pretty much had to balance the scenario from the beginning and employ tight restrictions on 'mech selection.

Many players enjoyed the additional facets they brought to the game, but many simply "didn't get it". Generally speaking, I found these "Clanboys" to be players that thought they could augment their lack of talent with a heap of bonuses. Not exactly the brightest bulbs. Guys who have a hard time with the "This one goes to eleven" argument. Again this is a rather broad brush but that was the general trend. On the whole I stayed away from the clan side of the table.

As far as their presence int he game, I see why PGI would not want to look a gift horse in the mouth here. Games are a big boys business now. I'm all for character and nuanced subtlety in games but we are talking about people's money and livelihoods. That means you have to please as much of the player base as possible. I wouldn't mind seeing them added at all, and think that, though it may need some tweaking beyond this, a flat numeric advantage for the Inner Sphere is a good place to start.

Me? ... I just hope they drop good loot.