558 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

Blackfire1, on 02 February 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

So post 34 about legging. :\ K.

It happens. Moving on.

They can't move on; they've been legged!

[SwordofLight]

Ironheart, on 02 February 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Well, then make mechs with tracks instead of legs. Problem solved. ^^

Yeah. Uh, I hate to refer back to World of Tanks, but before it was nerfed, you spent half your time tracked. Especially from artillery, who, if they landed a shell near you, would invariably track you. Of the arty nerfs, this is one that I hardily aprove of. I know, I know - only joking, but point is, legging is like tracking - if someone can knock out your mobility, they're going to.

That said, it was cool to saw off the leg of the AI - it was utterly silly to do it to a Warhammer while piloting a Locust, but thats what I did. It was the worst flaw of the first Mechwarrior game. When I got Mercenaries, I did the same thing, only in a modified Thug - but the effect was the same, a buzzsaw to an enemy's legs. What, an assault lance guarding that HPL? No problem. This was a radical departure from the tabletop; the random nature of the shots meant that unless your six-siders were loaded, you werent concentrating fire on one spot (well, NARC beacon not withstanding)

And you know unless there are independent servers, anyone who can will. Its like bunnyhopping on CounterStrike and Day of Defeat - there are servers where its against the rules to bunnyhop - on general servers, though, folks will bunnyhop, because you're harder to hit. The question then is how you nerf my desire to do the most logical tactical attack - kick out the legs of my opponent. Other than making it against the server rules, the only way to prevent it is to declair legging against the Aries Accords, and penalize players in game for legging (and dishonorable for Clan warriors!).

Otherwise, I'm going to shoot out your legs if I can. If you aint standin', you aint as much of a threat.

-Don

Edited by Sword_of_Light, 02 February 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[Heronimus Bosch]

Can we leave now?

I guess we will get to know how combat in MW:O works when Mech Warfare month arrives

[AnimalC4]

Mainly played Mw4 and I know that in most cases I could core out a ct quicker than they could disable a leg and then hit it again. As long as players are rewarded for having the skill to target a specific point I will be satisfied - Will only be dissapointed if its a blanket approach where equal damage is done no matter where you hit and the entire "hp" must be destroyed before the mech is destroyed

[SilentObserver]

Or make the tactic less effective.

Make the leg hit boxes smaller. make the spread of weapons fire bigger.

make is so your legger is putting half his rounds in the dirt like he should be while the guy he's trying to leg is putting all his weapons in the leggers torso's.

You don't have to make things illegal to make people stop doing them (thats actually the hardest way to control behavior).

[Rayge]

SilentObserver, on 02 February 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

You don't have to make things illegal to make people stop doing them (thats actually the hardest way to control behavior).

for a Dev, making things illegal is easy For a player, making something illegal is very difficult. I don't think any of us want to see indestructable legs though

[Jaggar Boo]

If I am small and you are huge. I will shoot your legs and run like a bitch.

[Rhinehart]

I have always thought legging to be a perfectly valid tactic, especially for Mercs considering a great deal of their payday comes from salvaged mechs and legging preserves most of the machine. If someone doesn't like it then add armor to your legs and maybe some engine speed and oh maybe try some creative maneuvering to make your legs harder to hit, or maybe even use terrain to mask those vulnerable extremeties. Nothings irritates me more than hearing mech pilots whine about legging, especially in multiplayer combat where an opponent can do it to you as easily as you can to them. There is no reason why, when fighting an enemy you would not aim for the vulnerable spots if possible.(Exception for Clan Honor or Kurita Honor.)

[flyingdebris]

Paul Inouye, on 02 February 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Please don't give FlyingDebris any ideas.. bad enough we're stuck with samurai armor and windmills now.

you just don't understand, windmills and samurai armor are so avant garde right now. The modern art scene just won't take us seriously until EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME is samurai windmills that shoot fists from their fists.

[Joanna Conners]

In the past, targeting the leg was quick and easy. When I was with a Clan I didn't do it. When I was independent... if it meant victory, why abstain?

[Black Sunder]

I was moving fine until I took and Arrow IV to the leg.

[Outlaw2]

Rayge, on 02 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I actually prefer the MW4 'magic legs' scenario. It makes shooting the legs a viable tactic, but not an 'lol i win' scenario.

Yep

It was a good mechanic that worked and solved the legging cries. MWLL new internal leg damage essentially mimics MW4s mechanic in a round about way.

[Undead]

Not this again...

Legs are a viable target. If I'm facing another pilot whose mech has already taken significant leg damage but is otherwise unscathed, you better believe I'm gonna go for the legs.

When facing a fresh mech, I'm gonna go for the torso. Honestly, sorry "leggers", but anyone who goes straight for the legs is a moron. Legs can potentially have the greatest amount of armor on a mech besides the torso, and a legged mech can still return fire. When mechs are moving at full speed and strafing, it's hard to hit a specific leg. We don't need quadruple leg armor or any other stupid mechanics to make legs harder to damage. Don't want your legs blown off? Practice your piloting.

Edited by Undead, 02 February 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[FACEman Peck]

Paul Inouye, on 02 February 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Please don't give FlyingDebris any ideas.. bad enough we're stuck with samurai armor and windmills now.

I have no idea what that means...

[Chuckie]

Paul Inouye, on 02 February 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Oh no you din't!!!

Me thinks Paul was either the recipent of MW:O Legging by Russ or the "legger" of Russ..

Considering reaction I will go with the first one..

Edited by Chuckie, 02 February 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Azantia]

Canon rules dictate that the legs can have as much armor as the left and right torso of a mech, without the need for rear armor, generally speaking a mech's legs will have more armor. Now comes the part where PGI has mentioned that not all things translate well to the simulation of mech combat in a video game, and in my opinion, logic would dictate that legs WOULD be more heavily armored than other parts of a battlemech (due to having to support the weight). In general in a human, when you walk at a moderate pace your feet and legs are generally supporting 100 to 150% of your weight due to gravity and motion, and upwards of 300 to 800% of your weight when jogging, running and sprinting, when we are talking about a 20 to 100 Ton battlemech, you are talking about a pretty serious reinforced support structure being needed.

I think legging should be a viable tactic, but should be no-where NEAR as easy as it was in either MW3 or MW4, and the armor values should be considerably higher so that it requires a constant, concerted effort / focus of several weapon volley's to see an effect.

[Harrow]

All this talk of 'fairness' in war. If you are RPing a clanner then i can understand the honor side of no legging. But like others have said, if its allowed mechanically in the game, and it is the best tactical option, your leg is toast.

But this topic is one of the reasons that I hope speed difference is a very well balanced and meaningful feature in this game. Depending on the situation you should be hard pressed to leg a very fast moving light mech at range or a big assault mech that has so much extra armor on its legs it would take some doing.

[Chuckie]

As a Merc.. I don't care if its "Fair", Last i checked it was WAR..

Think the South thought it was "fair" when the north started to use the Gatling gun..?

Think the Germans cared if it was "fair" to use Mustard gas in WW1..?

Think the Japanese thought it "fair" to drop the A bomb on them..?

What about the bobby traps in Nam..?

I.E.D.s in Iraq/Afghanistan..?

Nothings FAIR about war.. its WAR.. Don't want to get legged.. hide your legs, up armor them, pilot faster, etc.. but sure as heck don't think in WAR no one isn't going to use every single advantage they have to win. Even though this is a game, its simulating war...

Edited by Chuckie, 02 February 2012 - 06:51 PM.

[Naduk]

if your legs are weak im going to shoot them end of story

[Breeze]

Sure, there's things that the developer can do to ensure that "legging" doesn't become an exploit. And that seems to be the primay problem for people who aren't proponents for it. The size of the hit boxes, the amount of armour or internal structure (or whatever types of numbers and varibles that go into the programming) are things that the developers can grapple with.

But for me, there's only one real way to deal with the problem. And that is to move faster and shoot better than your opponent.