249 replies to this topic

[Thorn Hallis]

And which novels would that be? Can't remember any novel that is set during the Canopian-Andurien war.

[Hawk819]

Yes! Demonize the Cappies!

[Stone Profit]

Thorn Hallis, on 27 May 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

And which novels would that be? Can't remember any novel that is set during the Canopian-Andurien war.

Daggerpoint. Doubleblind. Binding Force. The Warrior Trilogy. It happened with Max Liao, Romano, and Sun-Tzu.

[Thorn Hallis]

Interesting. My issues of Daggerpoint, Double Blind, Binding Force and the Warrior trilogy feature no reference to the hopeless battle syndrom (and Romano Liao isn't in charge in any of them).

[Stone Profit]

Thorn Hallis, on 27 May 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

Interesting. My issues of Daggerpoint, Double Blind, Binding Force and the Warrior trilogy feature no reference to the hopeless battle syndrom (and Romano Liao isn't in charge in any of them).

Then we should agree to disagree, sir.

I forgot rule #1 : never try to reason with a cappie, never works lol

[Carl Wrede]

Metro, on 05 February 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

They are only following the canon lore....to enhance game play.

It will however, not determine the outcome of our battles.

I guarantee you, there is not a CCAF member I know, that will show up to play and be told to lose.

So....let the Devs tell their stories, and follow the timeline....at GAME launch, My fellow Capellans......WE WILL MAKE OUR OWN HISTORY !

This is exactly our sentiments in the FRR, just switch out Capellan for FRR and Davion for the Clans!

[Tsula]

You really can't change the story line of a established game. Liao is just one of the weaker houses in the game. Fact that the rulers are nuts, just adds to the line. Under Sun Tzu Liao things start to change. Thou he nut as nuts yet.

[Balls of Steele]

Thorn Hallis, on 27 May 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

Interesting. My issues of Daggerpoint, Double Blind, Binding Force and the Warrior trilogy feature no reference to the hopeless battle syndrom (and Romano Liao isn't in charge in any of them).

Can't comment on those novels as I've not read them, but the Capellan Solution series does imply (and outright state in some places) that one of the objectives of Sun Tzu's Shin Xeng was to stop the "Hopeless Battle" syndrome which was a symptom of Romano's tendency to "silence" defeated commanders (and their officers and ranking Non-coms by extension). During Romano's reign at least - where we stand now - quite a few Capellan soldiers *would* rather charge to their death than face the penalty for defeat. The Davions are partially correct, but only in as far as Romano is still in charge.

Edited by Balls of Steele, 27 May 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Stone Profit]

Thank you, Mr Steele. I knew it was there somewhere. Been a decade since I read the books, but I recall the scenes quite well.
In regards to others in this post, I am in fact quite the admirer of the Capellans, as you will find if you read my earlier posts. Just wanted to be clear. Please don't tell the MIIO

[Thorn Hallis]

Balls of Steele, on 27 May 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Can't comment on those novels as I've not read them, but the Capellan Solution series does imply (and outright state in some places) that one of the objectives of Sun Tzu's Shin Xeng was to stop the "Hopeless Battle" syndrome which was a symptom of Romano's tendency to "silence" defeated commanders (and their officers and ranking Non-coms by extension). During Romano's reign at least - where we stand now - quite a few Capellan soldiers *would* rather charge to their death than face the penalty for defeat. The Davions are partially correct, but only in as far as Romano is still in charge.

I know of the hopeless battle syndrom, but this is nothing that is exclusive to the CCAF. Hopeless battle syndrom can be found in every large military, fictional or not.

[Balls of Steele]

You're right of course, the idea is either inspired by or coincidentally similar to Stalin's Order No. 227:- famous for the Soviet slogan "Not one step back!". Basically it said any soldiers caught retreating would be shot by blocking detachments. So if you were facing the enemy and completely panicked, your own men were to shoot you. I'll say this for the Russians they are cold motherf*ckers!

Hopeless Battle syndrome isn't exclusive to the CCAF sure, but I'm sure Romano's leadership exacerbates* the problem.

*Anyone else learn this word watching Shaun of the Dead?

Edited by Balls of Steele, 28 May 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[Youngblood]

Stone Profit, on 26 May 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Yes, suicidal attacks against superior forces because youre afraid of what your house leader will do to you for failure is totally a great way to conduct a war and give your nation its best chance, not to mention treat those who give the most to your nation.

So now that we have the Hopeless Battle Syndrome defined and cleared up, I'd just like to offer this: Better to die now as a Capellan than to wait for false promises of liberty from a Davion.

Edited by Youngblood, 28 May 2012 - 09:00 AM.

[Sir Trent Howell]

I think the demonizing of the Capellan Confederation in the novels is what drew my attention to them in the first place. Maybe I just like the bad guys, but the Davions were all goody-two-shoes and needed a balance. The problem with Battletech is that it often lacked multi-faceted characters with believable flaws. Kai Allard-Liao was perhaps the best example. If he had been a horrible jackass rather than an insecure dope who seemed permanately on his period, he would have been much more enjoyable to read.

Sun Tzu, however, is probably one of the most interesting characters in the whole canon. He's a sane man who grew up in a lunatic asylum where the crazy people were in charge. It made him cunning, shrewd and dangerous, ruthless but only when he needed to be. Almost Machiavellian I suppose.

Sun Tzu was really the character that turned CapCon from being the "villain" of the Btech universe to being as much a major player as any other faction.

Maybe a chunk of that was old Cold War mentality, though by the 1980s, we were using friendly relations with China as a means of ticking off the Russians. I think though, it was more just along the lines of 80s and 90s scifi, good guys and bad guys, whereas today we're much more accustomed to flawed protagonists and bad guys who aren't necessarily evil to the core, but persuing their own solutions to the problem presented in the story.

[Youngblood]

NARCoMAN, on 23 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Demonizing the capellans is like demonizing a pack of dogs that barks at you. It's just a stupid bunch of animals operating on insinct and ignorantly behaving in a self destructive manner towards more intelligent and better armed individuals. Oh and the dogs bark.

I don't think you really needed to make a simile to describe the group of people you were speaking about, seeing as your definition of that simile had nothing to do with dogs at all. Oh and the dogs are smarter than you.

[Adridos]

Balls of Steele, on 28 May 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I'll say this for the Russians they are cold motherf*ckers!

They simply had to. War is war and it was never a thing of honour or kindness.

It was and always will be bad, no matter at what purpose.

[Anton Lysenko]

The news from the 27th looks promising:

http://mwomercs.com/...-isn-news-flash

Quote

Sun. May 27, 3049: Though loath to admit it, AFFC is still attempting to replicate the effective electronics package of the RVN-3L Raven.

Looks like there are some things that the CC can do that the FS can't.

Also, while there a "personality cult" that surrounds the office of the chancellor, it is nothing like that of modern North Korea. In the NK, everything flows from Kim Jong Il (or the son, now). The accomplishments of the Capellan citizens are theirs for the greater good..

[gamesguy]

The CC has universal education and healthcare, while the far larger and richer FedCom has the lowest literacy rate in the IS. Yeah the socialists are totally the bad guys, not the dark age feudal state that refuses to teach its serfs how to read and write.

[Serevn]

Ah the familiar banter between Capellans and Feds... warms my heart

[rilianv]

At the time of Romano Liaos rule, she enacted several regimes to wipe out anyone who she even had the slightest doubt of false loyalties.
if an agent failed a mission, she would have their heads.
so the devs are sticking to canon by making it seem like shes pure evil

[Sanction]

She is "evil" (in point of fact, insanity is not evil, just sickness). The confederation itself is not evil, in fact, helping others and selflessness are a way of life for us. I would call that righteousness.