309 replies to this topic

[zer0imh]

free camera view in the mechbay.

now that's what i want. explore and inspect your mech before and after battle.

Edited by zer0imh, 05 September 2012 - 12:09 AM.

[buttmonkey]

funny how you guys are begging the moderators to close this topic. obviously you dont't want a real debate about it and you dont want awareness and support for 3rd person to grow, you just ignore what we say and beg the moderators to close the topic. sad really

and what if there is a pve mode (which i very much hope there is), are you saying that we shouldnt be able to to use 3rd person because its not fair on the computer?

and what if you collide with a mech while in assault mode and you catch a climps of an enemy mech over a hill anyway, why are you guys not raging about it and demanding that this 3rd person mode be removed? you guys say this is an unfair advantage yet you seem fine about the fact you see in 3rd person during collisions why is that? you cant have it both ways

Edited by buttmonkey, 05 September 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[EnigmaNL]

I really don't understand why all these people are against a third person view. If everybody can use it it's not an unfair advantage. If you don't like it, don't use it!

In my opinion it improves the feeling of immersion. I would really like to be able to customize the looks of my Mech and be able to see this ingame (with a third person view).

If anything a third person view would be a disadvantage in combat because you will be moved even further away from your target so aiming will be harder. Also they should make it so you don't have the complete HUD when using third person view because the HUD is part of the cockpit I think.

[Egomane]

EnigmaNL, on 05 September 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

I really don't understand why all these people are against a third person view. If everybody can use it it's not an unfair advantage. If you don't like it, don't use it!

In my opinion it improves the feeling of immersion. I would really like to be able to customize the looks of my Mech and be able to see this ingame (with a third person view).

If anything a third person view would be a disadvantage in combat because you will be moved even further away from your target so aiming will be harder. Also they should make it so you don't have the complete HUD when using third person view because the HUD is part of the cockpit I think.

First: Edit - removed
Second: That is so wrong on all accounts, that it is not even worth a real answer.

Edit:
Ok... I am a forgiving soul, so I will give you an answer.
If 3PV is made optional it becomes mandatory, because it gives an advantage to your over all sight. If you want to compete against someone who can look around conrers and over hills without exposing himself, you have to use the same tool. 1PV becomes obsolete!

I can understand your second reasoning. I would love to watch my mech in game. If it were possible without breaking the game I would be all for it. But as it stands it is not possible so we have to live without it. For us 1PV-only crowd it also breaks immersion big time, because we lose the feeling of actualy piloting a mech and instead get thrown into an arcade.

Your third point is wrong all over. There is no disadvantage in 3PV. Even if you don't have your HUD available, you can still use your superior battlefield awareness and quickly switch between 1st and 3rd PV when neccessary.

Edited by Egomane, 05 September 2012 - 01:58 AM.

[EnigmaNL]

Egomane, on 05 September 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

First: Self liking? Realy?
Second: That is so wrong on all accounts, that it is not even worth a real answer.

Self liked on accident, meant to like the post above me.

So what's wrong? Without invovling tabletop rules (because let's face it, this isn't the tabletop game), why is having a 3rd person option a bad thing?

[Egomane]

EnigmaNL, on 05 September 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Self liked on accident, meant to like the post above me.

So what's wrong? Without invovling tabletop rules (because let's face it, this isn't the tabletop game), why is having a 3rd person option a bad thing?

Edited my above post to give you your answer after I saw that you removed your self like.

[EnigmaNL]

Egomane, on 05 September 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

First: Edit - removed
Second: That is so wrong on all accounts, that it is not even worth a real answer.

Edit:
Ok... I am a forgiving soul, so I will give you an answer.
If 3PV is made optional it becomes mandatory, because it gives an advantage to your over all sight. If you want to compete against someone who can look around conrers and over hills without exposing himself, you have to use the same tool. 1PV becomes obsolete!

I can understand your second reasoning. I would love to watch my mech in game. If it were possible without breaking the game I would be all for it. But as it stands it is not possible so we have to live without it. For us 1PV-only crowd it also breaks immersion big time, because we lose the feeling of actualy piloting a mech and instead get thrown into an arcade.

Your third point is wrong all over. There is no disadvantage in 3PV. Even if you don't have your HUD available, you can still use your superior battlefield awareness and quickly switch between 1st and 3rd PV when neccessary.

Well you do make some good points there. But it would still be cool to have the option. Maybe they could make seperate game types like normal and hardcore. Where normal would allow 3rd person and hardcore would not, this would also give you different c-bill rewards of course. I understand this will seperate the players into groups but it might also attract more players.

[Lege]

Everyone should have 3rd person view at the launch, for the first 15 seconds.

Edited by Lege, 05 September 2012 - 02:27 AM.

[Axocaster]

Why not just view it in the mechlab? Then you're not wasting precious time in the middle of the battle and annoying your teammates while you check out how cool your mech looks.

[Strum Wealh]

SuperClone, on 05 September 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Devs - Recorder mode, and/or 3rd person mode when spectateing. Yes please. You want streamers, youtubers, and commentators to be able to stream the game.

Of interest on this point is that the Beagle Active Probe canonically "includes a memory unit that records the events of a battle and allows for later playback".
"This includes the ability for the user to "re-fight" the battle by making different tactical decisions, which are then analyzed and implemented by the system, allowing for the resulting consequences to be observed."
(This capability is described in TRO 2750, within the entry for the HTC-213B Hellcat II.)

This would be in addition to the "BattleROM" (data-recorder/"black box"/gun-cam system) that is a standard feature of BattleMechs.

However, the above is merely the fluff/canon justification for such a thing to be available as a "record and review (and possibly replay?)" function to be made available only after a match has taken place. Commentary could then be added in the post-production phase.

As far as third-person spectating, the Devs addressed that issue in their third Q&A session back in January:

Quote

What will happen to a pilot when their mech is destroyed, from the angle of information warfare? Will the pilot be booted from the match, allowed to observe as a "spectator" or locked to their destroyed mech (with a voluntary or involuntary ability to exit the match)? –Mezzanine

[PAUL] If it were up to me we’d format your C: drive but Bryan has suggested that we auto eject the pilot into a first person spectator view.

[DAVID] There will be no free roaming spectator mode. Dead players will likely see their destroyed ’Mech for a few seconds and then be able to cycle through the viewpoints of their living allies.

[BRYAN] We’re very aware and concerned about spectator mode giving teams using Teamspeak like communications and advantage. More than likely we only allow spectators to view what the current target view (pilot) can see.

(emphasis mine)

The Devs are evidently fully-aware of how players would (ab)use third-person and/or free-roaming spectating to gain a competitive advantage over their opponents.
Before long, all one would ever see are half-strength teams, as the other half of the team would be spectators paired to a 'Mech for "ghost-scouting/spotting" purposes. Or 2/3-strength teams, with two players as "ghost-scouts/spotters" for each 'Mech lance.

As such (and as stated by Bryan), "spectator mode" would most likely be limited to cycling through the first-person POVs of one's remaining teammates.

----------

GnawTsatyr, on 05 September 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Immersion is the feeling you get when you are situated directly into the sense of realism. Considering this is a Battlemech simulator, 3rd person view would do exactly the opposite.

Indeed.

[Bansheedragon75]

JagerWulf, on 04 September 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

I say YES to 3rd person view for in game and mechlab, I don't remember reading any where were the devs say No never, I read they siad sometime in the distant future, which is nothing like NO never, it won't cost much to implement since it's already there, you can see this your selves everytime your mech dies or falls over.

You are right they have not said they will never add it, but you have conveniently left out the rest of their statement regarding that in your comment.

Quote

MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

They say they may add it for special game settings, but not for regular play.

Edited by Dragonlord, 05 September 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[buttmonkey]

MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

Paul
Lead Designer

well actually we already some 3rd person, when you run into another mech it automatically goes to 3rd person so what is that about? even the developers can not say say it will be 100% 1st person when actually it is not, they have already implemented 3rd person. surely if you want a pure 1st person game then this must also change. its actually extremely hypocritical.

Edited by buttmonkey, 05 September 2012 - 06:23 AM.

[Egomane]

And that right there is a breach of the NDA buttmonkey!

[buttmonkey]

well if it is a breach of the NDA then there are multiple other guilty parties on this forum topic.
in fact if we are not allowed to talk about the gameplay then there would be pretty much no forum topics at all. that aside my point is still valid so dont side step it.

Edited by buttmonkey, 05 September 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[SakuranoSenshi]

buttmonkey, on 05 September 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

at the risk of being ridiculed what is the NDA precious?

The legally binding agreement, AKA contract, you agreed to when you clicked "Yes, I accept the terms and I have read this non-disclosure agreement" right before you were allowed into the beta. You know, the one that says, amongst other things, that you may not discuss anything about the game that has not been publicly released, may not talk about how it performs and definitely cannot talk about speciifc mechanics, weapon values, etc. That NDA.

[Egomane]

buttmonkey, on 05 September 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

well if it is a breach of the NDA then there are multiple other guilty parties on this forum topic.
in fact if we are not allowed to talk about the gameplay then there would be pretty much no forum topics at all. that aside my point is still valid so dont side step it.

I am not sidestepping anything. I am not allowed to talk about the thing you mentioned. But I can give you this from the FAQ:

Quote

Q. Will you be able to switch from first-person to third-person views?

A. The game is played from the first person. We’re exploring ways to have a third person camera that make sense from a gameplay point of view.

[Jakob Knight]

You know, it is entirely possible many gamers in this day and age are unfamiliar with the term 'simulator'. All they have had experience with is the 'video game' mode of playing online games, where nothing is truely handled with an eye towards actually providing an experience as close to being in the environment as possible. To these players, the lack of a 3rd-person view would be limiting, uncomfortable and seem pointless, as what is important to them is how they look in the game, or how great their moves were.

True simulator gaming is concerned with creating a gaming experience that provides the player with only what they would have available if they were actually in the situation occurring in the game environment. While 3rd-person viewing in the environment MWO occurs in would be possible, it would involve the player actually exiting their vehicle in the middle of a battlefield where anti-vehicle weaponry is in free usage. An out-of-body experience would seem appropriate in this case, as the player would be considered dead on implementation of this feature unless they had ejected beforehand, in which case, they can get a great view of their 'mech falling over as they drop back down to the ground. Players are, in my opinion, welcome to have both such 3rd-person viewing options if they so desire.

Other forms are simply gaming gimmics, and should be kept out of what is supposed to be an experience of piloting a robotic war machine across a battlefield, not a holodrama. Perhaps the use of recon UCAVs would also allow this, but only at the expense of the player losing control of their own battlemech while engaged in the view of the UCAV (you can't watch the UCAV footage -and- watch your controls at the same time, so better pick a good spot to stop before launching one). And such a UCAV would be both destroyable, and give away the position of the launcher.

My own two cents.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 05 September 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[dorelas]

AngryOgre, on 23 August 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

I'm a big fan of the 3rd person view to view my mech from time to time, it helps the immersion dramaticaly.

isn't that cute? but you are wr0000ng! Everybody is going to tell you , that immersion is achieved through 1st person perspective. You will never get this kind of immersion even in more time-demanding games like wow or diablo and sure not in korean-japanese console gaming. 3rd perspective an isometric will never ever do.

[Red squirrel]

No in-game 3rd person view.
What would be nice though would be a backwards view. (e.g. a camera that can be destroyed once the armor is off)

[Figgus]

No. No. NO. Just no. NO!

Friends don't let friends play crappy 3rd person views.