104 replies to this topic

[SilverWings]

Kumakichi, on 02 November 2011 - 06:41 AM, said:

I didnt feel was any worry at all in MW4. That game was aimed right at the fragging community. Personally I'd like to see heat be a factor and please no more PPC or ERLL boating fests.

Well depending on the Mech that is exactly what you get. Both IS and Clans have mech designs built around using only 1 kind of weapon. Like the Nova with it's 10 ER ML, Supernova with 6 ER LL or even the Warhawk with 4 ER PPC. Then what of the Annihilator mounting 2 LB-10X and 2 LB-20X ACs? The only way you will see no "boating" is if they remove all loadout customization.

[SilverWings]

CoffiNail, on 02 November 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

Yeah a one shot or two shot is alright, more so for energy boats... but witnessing alpha after alpha... sorry your **** cockpit is cooking your pilot even with the coolant vests... I think you are going to pass out eventually.

Or better yet and tossed above this post. Coolant pods. You buy them, put them on, it is a extra expense... and if I shoot it off your mech, well that compressed coolant is going to pop a bit and take some of your armor with it.

I'm not too sure about it damaging your armor. After all people have been exposed to it and well, it poisoned them and nothing else. Granted it was a slow and painful death. If anything, shooting it would only help your enemy.

[Azmodan]

all i have to say is..coolant and dumping coolant is not mentioned in none of the books.
dunno about the pen&paper game.

[tennisen]

I say no coolant... Managing heat is a big part of the game and coolant flush just makes things easy. Not to mention irrealistic... if you drop the coolant out of your car, you dont magically have a cool engine, what you have is an overheating car with no coolant! Now if a coolant flush involves stopping your mech by a tanker, attaching a hose, who would flush your hot coolant and replace it with cool fluid. this making you immobile and vulnarable for a (longish) period of time I would be ok with that but otherwise no free heat dissipation unless you sit you mech in a lake!

Edited by tennisen, 02 November 2011 - 06:59 AM.

[Cora]

Single use coolant pods, you can carry them from battle to battle, the can be popped with a crit, or you can use a pod exactly once. After that the pod must be replaced/refilled at cost to the mechwarrior.

[infinite xaer0]

I vote no for MW4 style coolant dumping mechanics. If you can't take the heat, step the **** away from the battlemech (and mount more heat sinks )

[HooDoo]

Not sure how many of you have ever played BattleTech with the Tesla Pod System that Virtual World created but if you have, then you know what I am talking about. It really is, in my opinion, hands down the best Mech simulator there is.. The only thing that could make it better would be actual motion simulation. But back to the topic at hand, just use the heat sink and coolant flush system like they do.

If there is going to be heat build up in this system then their should be a coolant flush too. Just make it limited. Once it is gone, it is gone. No rebuilding supply, just a finite amount. Have the same heat sink and coolant system that all the other Mechwarrior games have and just make the coolant supply limited as it is in the Tesla system created by Virtual World. This limits a Mech from unlimited alpha's and makes the pilot's choices in game strategy more consequential. So once that energy boat fires off an alpha and has to do a major coolant flush to keep himself from shutting down, he wont be able to do that over and over.. Also the with the Tesla System the coolant system and reservoir was susceptible to damage and could be knocked out by direct or splash damage.

@ Azmodan, come to think of it I think you're right. They do mention coolant leaks but I can't recall any of the books dumping(flushing) coolant. They always "slapped the override" to keep them in the fight. That could be another feasible mechanic should they not implement coolant. They could have a safety override that might allow a mech to spike the temps higher before shutting down(or exploding!). The higher your temps get the more damage you cause to your own mech.

But I think no matter what system they use it should not allow multiple alpha strikes in rapid succession and coolant, if used, should not be renewable unless you hit a repair/resupply gantry.

Sidenote: The Tesla versions I am referring to above are the Tesla 4.0-4.9 versions. I have not tried the Firestorm version as of yet but unless it is something different than playing MW4 in the pod then I am not missing anything.

[taxman]

Allways a can of worms for people .

from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coolant_Pod

Virtually a self-contained emergency [color="#002bb8"]Coolant Truck[/color], the Coolant Pod contain a reserve of compressed freon which can be flushed directly into the attached [color="#002bb8"]'Mechs[/color] coolant system, boosting the effectiveness of each [color="#002bb8"]Single heat sinks[/color] by 200% and each [color="#002bb8"]Double Heat Sinks[/color] by 150% for 10 seconds.
The experimental coolant pods are under development among all the [color="#002bb8"]Inner Sphere[/color] and [color="#002bb8"]Clans[/color] factions, examples produced by the [color="#002bb8"]NAIS[/color] "Project Power Flush" are functionally identical to prototypes developed by the [color="#002bb8"]Scientist Castes[/color] on the [color="#002bb8"]Clan Homeworlds[/color], but all have been so far unable to overcome the disadvantages of what makes them work so well and so fast: pressurized coolant.
Coolant pods are highly susceptible to weapon fire, a fully pressurized pod will rupture and cause internal damage in the same manner of an ammunition explosion if struck. To avoid over-pressurizing and damaging the coolant systems of the equipped 'Mech, for safety reasons only one pod can be engaged at a time, though multiple pods can be carried. The violent release of coolant is damaging enough to the strained cooling systems of BattleMechs, the fragile modular coolant systems aboard [color="#002bb8"]OmniMechs[/color] consistently fail under the strain despite years of research by the Clans.

Also from the same source,

Heat sinks were introduced by the fledgling Western Alliance in 2022AD^{[color="#002bb8"][4][/color]} to deal with the heat loads imposed by the earliest battlefield energy weapons and to protect the first battlefield fusion engines from their own heat. Modern heat sinks retain the same features as their ancient predecessors: heat collection systems (typically flowing liquid coolant delivered to hot spots), a heat pump (which may or may not be the same as the coolant circulation pumps), and a radiator to drive heat into the environment. They have shrunk in size and are now offered in forms with greatly improved efficiency, but the basic principles of heat sinks have not changed.

So I Guess in 1027 years some improvements should have been made.


Fact all weapons cause heat.
Rail guns etc have to be cooled because if they did not the barrels would degrade and the weapons at best would be un-usable at worst explosive with dire consequences for the Pilot.

Energy Weapons seem to run hotest of all when in use.

Currently when you fit a mech you make choices part of those choices would be the amount of heatsinks you fitted @ at a cost of one ton per sink you were often faced with choices run hot and use flush This was also reflected on the type of terrain you faced.

on a desert map or any other Hot map I would have 5cerl's on my nova ferrous armour instead of reflective speed 68 k loose bap and have as many heat sinks as I could cram onto the Nova. On a Map with water on then 6 x cerl's and never more than 5 or 6 Paces from water. Hogs back was a good example for a 6 cerls. weapons in 2 groups of 3. Coolant flushes do run out

on a map like Lunacy then a 7 cerl was possible but very dangerous especialy if there was a bit of Lag mostly a 6cerl was very manageable and extremely efficient. Alpha strikes were the norm on Lunacy.

Frankly though it used to upset me, that people would go on and on about it. They had obviously tried it and not been able to manage the heat, those of us who persevered and learned to manage the heat well, were often labled as Hackers or cheats. They failed to appreciate the amount of time and effort it took to realy learn how to Manage a 6 x cerl Nova Cat on a drop.

The Dev's have already indicated that they intend it to be more ballanced I guess time will tell on this.

I for one will look to adapt my gaming style to the new conditions that will be present to us.
The old MW4 style of play is not going to cut it in here.

I ~S~ PGI & IGP for giving us some hope !!

[wanderer]

Applejack, on 01 November 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

In MWLL, there's a notably large divide over the canon and gameplay functionality of Coolant. Some of them even argue that 'Mech "coolant" (aka ejecting coolant to cool down your 'mech) be removed because it negates the advantages of ballistic weapons / makes it too easy to use energy weapons.

The only way it works is if you literally have the boardgame's "coolant pods" option- which is a one-shot rig that briefly (and I mean for about 10 seconds) boosts your heat sink's powers. Basically makes traditional sinks equal to doubles, doubles equal to "triples" while it lasts, and costs tonnage to do so.

Generally, most people prefer having a bigger cooling system instead. MW4-style "coolant flushes" are right up there with Mechassault in my book for "things never to get near MWO".

[Angry Donut]

The game was always about including real world physics as much as a sci-fi based game could allow. Thus a nuke powered machine dumping its coolant goes into SCRAM and shuts down entirely. Not a kill, but out of the game until coolant is refilled and the nuclear power plant is restarted. So get out of your mech and start running back to the maintenance engineers, you just screwed your ride.

[Mister Blastman]

No coolant, period. It was pretty pathetic when they introduced it. Real Mechwarriors know how to handle their heat and not pop off their load too early.

[DamnCatte]

As a player who grew up with 3015-3025 era battlemechs, I know personally that heat is a *****. When you bring coolant into play, it changes the mechanics of how you think, how you act, and how you play (the alpha striking hunchback being a lovely example.) While allotting coolant may speed things up for a frustrated player, it detracts from elements of thought and planning your method of attack. Heat is a very good teacher when it comes to how to manage what you have.

[Hallstatt]

Ooya, on 01 November 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

Another feature they could implement in addition to issues with the Mechs would be that as your heat rises it has a visual effect; the view gets more and more blurry and perhaps darker. They could even add something of a wobble. This would represent the pilot's cooling vest struggling to keep up and the effects of the heat on the pilot. It would also allow the introduction of the exceptionally rare cooling suits, perhaps as a reward for some special event or as an achievement of some kind, perhaps as the prize for winning the Solaris Circuit.

Since we're the Mechwarrior inside the cockpit, I would prefer to see the cockpit fill with yellow (and red when close to shutdown) lights and sound alerts.

To the coolant, make it one shot only, and maybe make it lower the heat bar. So, a normal mech shutdowns at "40" heat (yellow warnings at 20, red at 30). You can add a one-shot coolant, but your mech will shutdown at 36 (yellow at 18, red at 27).

EDIT: Oh, and we can't forget terrain features! Desertic locations increasing the heat, oasis/lakes being used to coll down and such. This should be more important tactically than if your mech has coolants or not.

Edited by Hallstatt, 02 November 2011 - 09:33 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Kazimir Kerensky, on 02 November 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'm not too sure about it damaging your armor. After all people have been exposed to it and well, it poisoned them and nothing else. Granted it was a slow and painful death. If anything, shooting it would only help your enemy.

It is not the coolant itself that damages the armor but the fact the coolant is highly compressed. So when you shoot that the compression goes BOOM and can take some armor with it.

edited to make more sense

Edited by CoffiNail, 02 November 2011 - 09:37 AM.

[UncleKulikov]

Flushing coolant is fine with me. But it needs to have a disadvantage, like halving your mech's cooling rate. Nothing structural, though.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 02 November 2011 - 09:36 AM.

[Lori Black Widow Carlyle]

wanderer, on 02 November 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

The only way it works is if you literally have the boardgame's "coolant pods" option- which is a one-shot rig that briefly (and I mean for about 10 seconds) boosts your heat sink's powers. Basically makes traditional sinks equal to doubles, doubles equal to "triples" while it lasts, and costs tonnage to do so.

Generally, most people prefer having a bigger cooling system instead. MW4-style "coolant flushes" are right up there with Mechassault in my book for "things never to get near MWO".

+1

100% support for no MW4-style flush, but one time heat sink performance boost instead. The more the heat sinks installed the more boost impact, but the 1t pods are fragile and dangerous. Respect the IP!

[VYCanis]

i like the optional coolant pod approach.

sure you have coolant, you can have LOTS of coolant, but every pod takes up weight, space, and is just itching to explode.

Additionally, i'd go so far as to say there really needs to be some disadvantage to double heatsinks, because aside from being a little pricer, there is almost never any reason to use single HS.

Maybe making them easier to damage/destroy? Maybe making them more vulnerable to flamers and nearby fires due to the larger surface area? i dunno.

[Raj]

Hallstatt, on 02 November 2011 - 09:31 AM, said:

Since we're the Mechwarrior inside the cockpit, I would prefer to see the cockpit fill with yellow (and red when close to shutdown) lights and sound alerts.

I like this idea. It could also be interesting to add elements of heatstroke if you push your mech too hot. Have your pilot's vision blur, heavy breathing, maybe even shaking hands on the controls.

[Stormwolf]

No coolant flush, you should be skilled enough to handle heat.

[Xaks]

I voted "Depends on how it is handled".

I agree with the ability to 1-shot dump the coolant IF (and ONLY if) you are then in reduced mode until refilling the coolant reservoir.

Otherwise it just silly, IMHO.