156 replies to this topic

[Maurice]

would love to see salvage but its not my call but something like you keep what you kill would be nice

[Hawk Pryde]

guardiandashi, on 16 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

which you can read aone of several ways .

1 there is going to be a mw2/3 (aka battletech constructions and refit rules based) mechlab
2 there is going to be a number of "base chassis" with "limited" modifications allowed
3 there are going to be a number of "chassis" available each with a specific configuration

now where it said you could go for a plus armor minus weapons atlas config that is an "interesting" thing to hear because the base atlas is @ armor max (304/307 ) of max armor with standard armor, the only realistic way to "up armor" an atlas would be to switch to hardened armor, install a "shield" or similar (note this is a physical shield not an energy shield other than the "blueshield" system battletech doesn't do energy shields)

up gunned mechs have to come up with the mass for the new weapons somewhere ... like I had a cusom BLR-2G battlemaster varient that disgarded the 2 mg's ammo, and the srm6 plus ammo to free up the 7 tons to mount a second ppc, ... yes it doubled the long range firepower but actually reduces (significantly) the short to medium ranged firepower.

One of the things we did in Mechwarrior 3 and 4 in multiplay was take armor off our mech's legs and use the extra tonnage for weapons or heatsinks or other things to give us an edge. So what they are talking about is something to help players customize themselves.

[Solis Obscuri]

nubnub, on 15 February 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

This seems like the biggest 'issue' in the game IMHO. I think if the mech is all shot up then there wont be much to salvage but if you blow the cockpit then heaps of weapons and tech are up for the taking. I think you should be able to totally loose your mech, especially if the mech is lost of foreign turf or the planet is totally overrun during the battle. Also the issue of persistence of the physical wreck in the game, discussed elsewhere.

A lot of talk I'm seeing on salvage seems to revolve around people who played the MW2:Mercs/MW3/MW4 titles expecting they'll be able to run out the gate in their Hunchie as a Lone Wolf and proceed to immediately headshot an Atlas, 2 Masakaris, an Annihilator, a King Crab, 3 Mad Cats, a Vulture, and a Battlemaster, then leg a Jenner and a Raven with their lasers and walk out of their first match with the makings of a top-notch Merc company.

I don't think it's going to work so well in entirely PVP matches, with more limitations on tracking, detection, targetting, weapons convergence, etc. than in any of the previous MW titles. And besides, since we aren't permakilling 'mech pilots, the "Kill the Meat, Save the Metal" approach everyone likes to quote from ol' Deadeye just doesn't work quite the same.

verybad, on 15 February 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

In general, over 50% of mechs die in a lot of fights. Obviously you can't run a multiplayer game the same as you can run a singleplayer game with a campain. In a single player game, the player is the "hero" and reaps the benefits. In a multiplayer game, at least 50% of the players will be in destroyed mechs. If you're an avrage player skill wise, you soon wouldn't be able to play the game, because your mech got shot out from under you, and you can no longer afford the game. Soon the better players start losing their rides, and eventually, nobody can play, because salvage is based on a shrinking pool of technology. "Realistically" losing mechs would result in "realistically" not being able to play about a day after the game was realeased. They never said salvage was in the game, but getting pay bonuses from winning is the equivalent.

This ^^^

Also, I'd like to point out that the devs haven't said "no salvage", they just said you won't be able to lose your 'mech - as mentioned before in this thread, this is probably A GOOD THING™. I'm all for having some meaningful loss in a game, but setting that bar too high begins to discourage a lot of people from good fights - they're either going to be exclusively rolling in the heaviest/"best" thing possible and hoping for victory by sheer domination, or else going super light with a ton of ECM and running away the first time they take damage. So I think not letting players become dispossessed is a good idea (especially in a purely PvP game!) That doesn't have to preclude salvaging lost weapons or components, and there may be other assets to take from the battlefield.

And, in a way, we get the ultimate perk - we each get to salvage OUR OWN MECH from the battlefield, win or lose.

Nick Makiaveli, on 16 February 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

This plus Verybad's posts on the 1st page and we have a winner. Seriously people, it's all fine and dandy to sit on a forum and talk about how hardcore you are by wanting total loss etc. But for the rest of us, it isn't a viable system. I would play until my mech got blasted out from under me, and I was going to have to join a House, log in every day to collect my paycheck, and in a year or two when I have saved enough to buy a slightly used Locust I would go fight again. Uh yea. In other words, everyone would just reroll. Oh and the CS? Not happening. Why buy something that can get taken away? Or they add perm mech in the CS and so insta-P2W.

Salvage is a mechanic that works out very well in a "campaign" style setting, where you're stretching for goals with limited resources, but doesn't make as much sense with predominantly "instant action" gameplay.

Additionally, the main benefit of salvage is that it's a cheaper way to build up your force (as a unit commander) and a cheaper means of repairing/replacing/upgrading hardware (as a mechwarrior). But I somewhat question the benefits to "building up" a unit when each player who joins already has their own 'mech, and as for cheaper components... Well, it's ok if everyone has about an equal W/L ratio. But as time goes on, skill levels begin to emerge between better organized and less organized units, players who have more time to practice, who understands mechanics better, etc. And with a mechanic that not only rewards the more successful with more CBills, but also access to cheap repair components and free 'mechs, while making new/casual/less skilled players devote abulk of their time and money to loss replacement, you can hit a point where the system isn't much "fun" for most players - the successful have more cash than they can find things to spend on (and are probably clamoring for 3070's tech as a cash sink) and are throwing racks of PPCs into the dumpster because they don't have room to store them, while the "less fortunate" get frustrated continually having to grind to fight superior forces at a disadvantage, and stop playing.

Every game hits a point where the "infatuation" wears off and players' eyes start to wander, but putting in mechanics that actively reduce "fun" after the first few months are real game-killers, and I think it's a reasonable concern that salvage could go that way. Getting a few weapons or components should be ok, but I think anything too extensive, or salvaging full 'mechs, should probably be right out.

[Randal Waide]

I have said this before, but salvage would open up a new character class (or two) the tech and the broker. If they are NPCs they could be purchased for your unit. They could even "earn" xp by their use. It would also, if a player, open up a venue for a different style of player.
Salvage would also open up a black market system for Mercs. Also, a mega-corp for brokers. I'm a dreamer, but mechs will need repairs/parts and salvage is the key. This game has a lot of potential for future expansions. I hope they go beyond just the shooty bits. Running a Merc unit should be a challenge. Contract choices are critical. If its stays just a log in, shoot stuff till you trigger finger gets blisters and log out they will be leaving a lot of potential on the floor.
Personally I prefer the shooty bits, but the desire to start a Merc company up and hold it together with bailing wire and a prayer intrigues me. My tech would be famous!

[slide]

I dunno you go away for 14 hours and have 3 pages of posts to catch up on. Things happen fast around here.

There are definitely 2 camps on this issue.

Those that want salvage (hard core bt fans)
Those that don't (casual gamers, want to progress no matter what)

I personally, as you might have guessed am with the first camp, but I can see how being dispossed every time you lose will become frustrating fast. But that is also part of the BT universe.

I still don't believe that there should be no penalty for losing your mech in battle as this encourages suicidal tactics IMO. So how about this:

House units are supplied a new/salvaged mech from their own pool of spares at a reduced rate (say 20% of retail), this mech will be functional except for weapons/modules etc

Mercs/lonewolf's pay an excess = to above on an insurance policy lodged with the MRBC.

The exception to the above is if you are on a multi mission campaign (assuming there is such a thing) then you are dispossed until the campaign is over or unless your unit can give you a salvaged mech with which you can continue.

Of course if you have our own spare mech or enough c-bills you can forgo the above.

If you play badly enough you can still go broke, but that could happen under any economic model they put in.

[Ian MacLeary]

slide, on 16 February 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

There are definitely 2 camps on this issue.

Those that want salvage (hard core bt fans)
Those that don't (casual gamers, want to progress no matter what)

Sorry, but this is a false dichotomy. I spent almost every waking hour at a convention last weekend playing TT BattleTech. I bought the game when it first came out back in 1984. I'm kind of what you might call a 'hard core BT fan', and I don't want salvage in the game if it means people lose their 'mechs. It would kill the business model faster than p2w elite 'mechs would.

And as I have pointed out several times now... if you don't get to salvage things, but you do get a C-bill bonus for kills/assists... how are you losing anything? Sure, you might not get to 'salvage' that AC/20... but you can just buy one. Or a 'mech that mounts one.

It's not even an immersion thing. How many people can say that they used every single piece of salvage in a campaign of MW3/MW4? Or even more than 50%? I'd bet you could count them on one hand. Most of the stuff just gets sold. If my rewards include 'Pay: 20000 C-bills, Salvage: 1575 C-bills', I'll be happy. (The numbers given are purely imaginary and don't mean anything.)

[Zectorman]

this game seems to be more and more like a World of Tanks....You gain Exp with whatever tank you use, keep your downed tanks, and all you get is more Money for living or killing. Although i love the idea of this game, i dont want it to be Walking World of Tanks. I do love the Border planets and merc ideas, those are defienetly different, but they need to address this salvage issue and the consequences of your mech dying...oh wait i mean your mech deactivated, which is not very mech warrior-ish.

Regarding someone owning 100+ mechs, in World of tanks you had to actually buy room for mechs, with real money.

[Red Beard]

Hugg E Bear, on 16 February 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

A) Salvage is pretty much a must, or the core gamers/loyalists are gonna scoot pretty fast. Not a nice prospect for any game, much less MMO.

I will say this. The loyalist, BT elitist group of players will, in the end, compromise a relatively small fraction of the overall target base. That said, the very worst thing that the devs can so is cater to the elitists. So, from my personal point of view, the elitists, and their point of view on salvage, and what should and should not be in the game, can go to hell. This game is NOT for them, it's for the gamers that play it. So, if not having salvage is a deal breaker for any BT fake-snobs, then I say "good riddance"! We didn't really need ya anyways.

Thom Frankfurt, on 16 February 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

In one of the old rule books

You lost me at "rule book". Good Christ, can we stop trying to make this game fit into the antiquities of the past. Gaming has evolved, so too should MW.

slide, on 16 February 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

I dunno you go away for 14 hours and have 3 pages of posts to catch up on. Things happen fast around here.

Such is forum life.

Quote

being dispossed every time you lose will become frustrating fast. But that is also part of the BT universe.

I laughed so hard, I think I blew some beer foam out of my nose. You have made the most ridiculous post of the month! Congratulations! and, BTW, a huge NO, to any and all of your additional ideas. Keep lurking.

[slide]

Red Beard

If it wasn't for the elitist BT snobs who have supported this franchise with book purchases, TT source books etc you wouldn't even be having this conversation.

BTW the correct way to drink beer is through the mouth. I believe snorting is the preferred method for other recreational practices.

[Polymorphyne]

Salvaging a weapon or mech would mean that a player on the opposing team would have to lose said weapon or mech. It works in a PVE mechwarrior game, but in a PVP setting it is better to just earn money and xp and lp from matches.

[JebusGeist]

slide, on 16 February 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

I will say this. The loyalist, BT elitist group of players will, in the end, compromise a relatively small fraction of the overall target base. That said, the very worst thing that the devs can so is cater to the elitists. So, from my personal point of view, the elitists, and their point of view on salvage, and what should and should not be in the game, can go to hell. This game is NOT for them, it's for the gamers that play it. So, if not having salvage is a deal breaker for any BT fake-snobs, then I say "good riddance"! We didn't really need ya anyways.

Such an angry post. Let me explain something to you. MMO's, unlike a regular FPS, suffer from inflation. What that means is as the total amount of currency out on the market increases so does the cost of things. Basic NPC market prices don't vary sure, but any trading taking place (for weapons and modules that either arnt available to the buyer on the market yet or are CS only items) will suffer terribly.
For example, lets say a Clan PPC is not easy to come by, not normally available on the c-bill open market. In the first few months of the game the price difference between a regular PPC on the c-bill market and the asking price for a Clan PPC in trade will probably not have that large of a gap, but by the end of the first year of operation, the price gap will likely have exploded.
This happens in any MMO which doesnt have heavy duty currency sinks in place(WoW). You think salvage will make this game less noob friendly, go try and become a new player in an MMO thats been running for over a year, You'll find that it takes you 3-4x as long to acquire top quality gear as it took the first generation of players to acquire it because when they started the market hadn't undergone inflation yet.

If a noob player is a better pilot than me but can't afford a Clan PPC like I can, and that player manages to trash my cockpit, that player should have a chance (not saying 100%, hell probably not even 50%) to salvage my Clan PPC off me, he deserves it for trashing my custom mech with his default loadout and I deserve to lose it for having invested my c-bills in weapons tech when clearly I should have invested in speed and armor to make up for my clearly inferior piloting skills.

Besides, if everyone is so worried about noobs to the game not being able to get anywhere then the game needs a pilot skill rating system and missions which only allow players within certain skill ranges to participate, problem solved. You can still have missions that are open to all skill levels as well.

Stop using "elitist" to describe people that expect a game based on a franchise to reflect the franchise its based on. Especially when if I were to suggest that an Atlas should be cheap and readily available to all pilots that youll probably disagree on the grounds that in the BT universe an atlas is NOT CHEAP, and NOT READILY AVAILABLE TO ALL PILOTS. Seems to me that everyone who's against salvage is pretty much the kinda person that just wants to play an FPS and not an RPG, in which case, I'm sure everyone on call of duty misses you.

Edited by JebusGeist, 17 February 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[slide]

JebusGeist,

Well said.

Judging from Reds posts on the mech assault thread, he would probably want no heat management, unlimited ammo and a force field

[Nick Makiaveli]

slide, on 17 February 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

JebusGeist,

Well said.

Judging from Reds posts on the mech assault thread, he would probably want no heat management, unlimited ammo and a force field

Wait we don't have force fields? What kind of crappy game is this going to be!!!!!!!!

Ok back to the topic at hand. In the TT campaign mode didn't you play as a organization and not an individual? Granted you might have had your character be the colonel or some such but then you owned all the mechs the company owned. So not really applicable here. If you played the Mechwarrior RPG, then that was a different animal. Even then if you got dispossessed you often could borrow a mech to keep going. Worst case scenario you rolled a new character and moved on. I don't think we want to see that here.

Yes I will miss that part of the game. I still remember when I won the bidding and got my Panther and knew that even if my baby (a frankenstein Warhammer) got turned into scrap metal, I would still be a true mechwarrior. I believe the devs have plans on the back burner to add actual salvage etc to the game.

In the meantime, we have to remember as with ALL sims, some things will be abstracted. Some things won't line up just right. In this case it looks like all sides have agreed to pass on salvage or allow ransoming of lost mechs. So if you lose your mech, your employer (House or Merc Co.) pays to get it back to you and restores basic functions as part of your contract. You are then responsible for replacing weapons armor etc.

Not the perfect solution, but one that works and allows people to lose a fight and get back to the game without rolling a new mech. This is similar to the core explosion bit. Do you really want a random roll deciding your ejection seat malfunctions? Remember per the lore many mechs don't even have the proper air filters or any filter at all in some cases? A cool feature that "should" be in the game, but it wouldn't really work on a game like this.

Us old school PnP RPG gamers learned long ago how to deal with the loss of a beloved character. Modern gamers have learned to save early and save often.

[Halfinax]

Man, when did we old hat BTU guys have to become so condescending and hateful? The Devs haven't said there won't be salvage just that there will be no 'Mech perna-loss. In the same vein they did say that the 'Mech will be in bad shape after the battle and that you will have to pay to repair it. I think this is a good compromise. There are consequences to getting blown up (have to spend money repair), but not so severe as to put players off.

I think some of us TT or old hat guys have forgotten what makes BattleTech fun. It isn't the lore from the books, the min/maxing of 'Mechs, the cataloging of salvage, or the griping about "young players." It is and always will be the thrill of pitting your self against another player with giant machines stomping around a cityscape blowing the crud out of each other. Outsmarting the guy on the other side of the table, and pulling off a nice shot that made a certain loss into an assured victory.

I'm old hat, I've supported the BTU for years, and tbh slide, and Jebus Gheist the things you guys have been saying and the way you've been acting on the forums makes me ashamed of that.

[JebusGeist]

Halfinax, on 17 February 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Man, when did we old hat BTU guys have to become so condescending and hateful? The Devs haven't said there won't be salvage just that there will be no 'Mech perna-loss. In the same vein they did say that the 'Mech will be in bad shape after the battle and that you will have to pay to repair it. I think this is a good compromise. There are consequences to getting blown up (have to spend money repair), but not so severe as to put players off.

I think some of us TT or old hat guys have forgotten what makes BattleTech fun. It isn't the lore from the books, the min/maxing of 'Mechs, the cataloging of salvage, or the griping about "young players." It is and always will be the thrill of pitting your self against another player with giant machines stomping around a cityscape blowing the crud out of each other. Outsmarting the guy on the other side of the table, and pulling off a nice shot that made a certain loss into an assured victory.

I'm old hat, I've supported the BTU for years, and tbh slide, and Jebus Gheist the things you guys have been saying and the way you've been acting on the forums makes me ashamed of that.

They way I've been acting? Are you seriously faulting me for treating someone that calls anyone that expects salvage to be part of the game an "elistist" like an angry kid and telling them to go back to CoD? I'm going to assume that's what you are referring to, in which case, I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you should be ashamed of Red, who more than earned my derision with the tone and nature of the comment I was responding to. Mostly tho, you should be ashamed of yourself, because rather than respond to any of the arguments/points being made and addressing them with counter-arguments/points, you chose to write a couple lamentations and a chastisement over some imagined misbehavior.

As for the bit about what makes battletech really fun, running around in mechs and shooting each other... I have MW3 and MW4 installed, they have multiplayer combat where you can use any mech you want, with any weapons that are capable of being loaded out in the mechlab, and absolutely no need for c-bills and no chance of losing anything. They also have next to no one playing them, and if memory serves, they were never exactly massively populated to begin with.
So basically, the video game version of what you are describing already exists, in multiple incarnations. They aren't MMOs tho, and so have absolutely no RPG aspects from the BT PnP incorporated into their PvP, they are just an FPS/TPS inspired by the BT universe. If thats what people want, they should buy them. On the other hand, if what they want is an MMO RPG/FPS, theres already quite a few years worth of BT RPG mechanics and cannon story material to draw from, and salvage features heavily in both.

Oh and, I'm all for no mech loss, try re-reading my posts with a fresh set of eyes, I'm only arguing in favor of salvaging anything that attaches to a hard point, I could care less if I can't salvage your mech. I just want to salvage your weapons. That way if someone thinks "dual clan PPC's = easy win" I can trash them with my medium mech outfitted with a LBX 20 and maximum speed and have a small percentile chance of taking away their easy win toy and making them rethink and retool their battlefield strategy (or lack thereof). I'm not even talking about a huge chance to salvage, I'd be happy if it was a sliding scale starting at 10% if the hard point the weapon is attached to is on a completely undamaged body part, and 0% chance to salvage if that body part was destroyed.

Now, do you have a proper response that addresses what I'm saying?

Edited by JebusGeist, 17 February 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

Maybe your mech can be shot up bad but still makes it back barely alive. For example you got a catapult but both LRM-15s are shot off it's shoulders. The enemy can claimed the damage component as salvage (but still need to be repaired) but you still make off with your mech?

Or like a Highlander that lost it's Gauss rifle. Your arm might be a mangled heap but you can still fix it, but the dropped and damaged GR allows the enemy claim it as salvage if they won.

[Opus]

what is the database usage to track all this salvage? that's the only development issue I see - the tracking and tagging of what fell off a mech, and is repairable

I would love it, but perhaps we're jumping ahead of ourselves here...

[Caballo]

I can't see the purpose of the salvage if you earn money after the fight and can buy what you want in a market.

The only use i see is trying to accumulate more and more wealth for free, and if that's the player's objective, probably he will choose an Attacker/Defender role in every match (based on "i killed it, i get it" idea, but i may be wrong) so the scout and commander roles would get void fast.

In fact i find the market a better way to get toys. If you stick to your role and you stand on your feet after the battle, you earn more than if you didn't one of those two things. That will keep players thinking about the role they are playing, which is great. Plus there is no posibility of losing your mech, and become a dispossessed, so everyone keeps playing.

Edited by Caballo, 17 February 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[Halfinax]

As you requested:

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Such an angry post.

Redbeard was a indeed overly vitrolic, but no more so than the poster he was quoting, so shame on him, the person he quoted and all of us that did not stay above that fray.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Let me explain something to you. MMO's, unlike a regular FPS, suffer from inflation. What that means is as the total amount of currency out on the market increases so does the cost of things. Basic NPC market prices don't vary sure, but any trading taking place (for weapons and modules that either arnt available to the buyer on the market yet or are CS only items) will suffer terribly.
For example, lets say a Clan PPC is not easy to come by, not normally available on the c-bill open market. In the first few months of the game the price difference between a regular PPC on the c-bill market and the asking price for a Clan PPC in trade will probably not have that large of a gap, but by the end of the first year of operation, the price gap will likely have exploded.
This happens in any MMO which doesnt have heavy duty currency sinks in place(WoW). You think salvage will make this game less noob friendly, go try and become a new player in an MMO thats been running for over a year, You'll find that it takes you 3-4x as long to acquire top quality gear as it took the first generation of players to acquire it because when they started the market hadn't undergone inflation yet.

This is not any kind of announced feature on a player driven economy so we have no reason to expect inflation to be a factor. As for money sinks the devs have confirmed in the last QnA that you will have to pay for repairs on your 'Mech after a battle. Redbeard never mentioned "noobs" but he is correct in calling out some of the Old Hats that are being very Elitist and very snobbish. I'd almost think they'd rather see the franchise fail than give an inch to making the game more inviting for new players.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

If a noob player is a better pilot than me but can't afford a Clan PPC like I can, and that player manages to trash my cockpit, that player should have a chance (not saying 100%, hell probably not even 50%) to salvage my Clan PPC off me, he deserves it for trashing my custom mech with his default loadout and I deserve to lose it for having invested my c-bills in weapons tech when clearly I should have invested in speed and armor to make up for my clearly inferior piloting skills.

You're now also assuming scarcity for weapons and equipment. I suspect that scarcity is going to effect store price and not availability. Yes, the best pilot should win any engagement and be rewarded accordingly.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Besides, if everyone is so worried about noobs to the game not being able to get anywhere then the game needs a pilot skill rating system and missions which only allow players within certain skill ranges to participate, problem solved. You can still have missions that are open to all skill levels as well.

I think a better solution would be matching players of equal skill rather than trying to create contracts designed for certain skill levels since other players and not the environment is what you will be pitted against.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

Stop using "elitist" to describe people that expect a game based on a franchise to reflect the franchise its based on. Especially when if I were to suggest that an Atlas should be cheap and readily available to all pilots that youll probably disagree on the grounds that in the BT universe an atlas is NOT CHEAP, and NOT READILY AVAILABLE TO ALL PILOTS. Seems to me that everyone who's against salvage is pretty much the kinda person that just wants to play an FPS and not an RPG, in which case, I'm sure everyone on call of duty misses you.

He was using elitist very correctly here. People that believe themselves superior to others based on an arbitrarily defined level of expertise. I'm sure PGI will have MW:O reflect the BTU while simultaneously making it approachable and fair when transferring it from one medium to this fairly different medium. We cannot expect BattleTech the real time simulator without realizing many of the TT rules will have to be drastically changed and abstracted.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

They way I've been acting? Are you seriously faulting me for treating someone that calls anyone that expects salvage to be part of the game an "elistist" like an angry kid and telling them to go back to CoD? I'm going to assume that's what you are referring to, in which case, I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you should be ashamed of Red, who more than earned my derision with the tone and nature of the comment I was responding to. Mostly tho, you should be ashamed of yourself, because rather than respond to any of the arguments/points being made and addressing them with counter-arguments/points, you chose to write a couple lamentations and a chastisement over some imagined misbehavior.

An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth eh? I didn't initially respond to your arguments because they have been discussed ad nauseum on these forums and frankly it's become tiresome.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

As for the bit about what makes battletech really fun, running around in mechs and shooting each other... I have MW3 and MW4 installed, they have multiplayer combat where you can use any mech you want, with any weapons that are capable of being loaded out in the mechlab, and absolutely no need for c-bills and no chance of losing anything. They also have next to no one playing them, and if memory serves, they were never exactly massively populated to begin with.
So basically, the video game version of what you are describing already exists, in multiple incarnations. They aren't MMOs tho, and so have absolutely no RPG aspects from the BT PnP incorporated into their PvP, they are just an FPS/TPS inspired by the BT universe. If thats what people want, they should buy them. On the other hand, if what they want is an MMO RPG/FPS, theres already quite a few years worth of BT RPG mechanics and cannon story material to draw from, and salvage features heavily in both.

Yet they were not team based or designed primarily as MP games. They fell very short in MP imo. Where are you getting that this game is going to be an RPG? having a few minor RPG elements doesn't make this an RPG. It is going to be a MP Simulator based on what I'm reading.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Oh and, I'm all for no mech loss, try re-reading my posts with a fresh set of eyes, I'm only arguing in favor of salvaging anything that attaches to a hard point, I could care less if I can't salvage your mech. I just want to salvage your weapons. That way if someone thinks "dual clan PPC's = easy win" I can trash them with my medium mech outfitted with a LBX 20 and maximum speed and have a small percentile chance of taking away their easy win toy and making them rethink and retool their battlefield strategy (or lack thereof). I'm not even talking about a huge chance to salvage, I'd be happy if it was a sliding scale starting at 10% if the hard point the weapon is attached to is on a completely undamaged body part, and 0% chance to salvage if that body part was destroyed.

My entire post wasn't a direct address to you, but to the thread in general. Yes at the end of my post I name dropped you for being an elitist.

JebusGeist, on 17 February 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Now, do you have a proper response that addresses what I'm saying?

Satisfied?

[sNeepTray]

Ahh... Salvage

Who said we will salvage whole mechs? if a mech isnt destroyed it must be damaged (missing a arm,weapon,armour plate,...) Mybe we even salvage amunition from a downed mech. But we never get to see salvaged parts ,instead we are rewarded with C-BILS value of the parts....