295 replies to this topic

[I R O N Patriot]

Legs, arms, center torsos, and rack parts that come together to create your own crafted mech. Of course put limits on it, like only certain parts types on certain chassis types.

[I R O N Patriot]

and have a "black market" were you buy and sell these "crafted" mechs. Like make it were they spend real money to purchase a mech made buy another person. But the Mech creator gets in game credits that goes twards things in the game.

[EDMW CSN]

Kohzak, on 15 November 2011 - 06:27 PM, said:

No you don't. Five basic free light mechs against a Fafnir and a Mad Cat MK 2: Outcome (Can you guess?)

A dead fafnir

In Mekpak MW4, vet players regularly use lights to humiliate newbie assault players till it ain't even funny. Those light can reverse faster than you can turn your Fatty. So the trick is to kill em before they get behind you which ain't easy and they are mostly on passive. At least the Mk2 can pop away and re-position.

[Black Sunder]

You guys realize this is a 14 page troll right?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

No -it's so people can get their post count up

[Fear Radick]

If I remember correctly, you still can't buy aim, or fast reflexes, or basic skill in a F2P game. Seeing as this game will require you have all three of those to likely be successful I don't see where the issue is. Unless the devs are planning on putting in some super weapons that make your mech completely indestructable and unbeatable and then force you to pay for it we should be good.

[Kohzak]

[EDMW]CSN, on 20 November 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

A dead fafnir

In Mekpak MW4, vet players regularly use lights to humiliate newbie assault players till it ain't even funny. Those light can reverse faster than you can turn your Fatty. So the trick is to kill em before they get behind you which ain't easy and they are mostly on passive. At least the Mk2 can pop away and re-position.

Good Point, yet we don't know how any of these mechs will maneuver until the game is actually out.

[Red Beard]

This thread has degenerated into...nothing. Thin ice...for sure.

[I R O N Patriot]

I agree with mr. beard. Put this thread out of its misery before it gets any worse.

[JudauAshta]

Mal, on 31 October 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

Ok... so, since you don't like the proof that it won't... can you prove that it will?

combat arms and world of tanks, before they came out devs said payed content will not you an edge. combat is fully pay to win, while paying in world of tanks only gives small edge.

Edited by JudauAshta, 20 November 2011 - 09:44 PM.

[Damion Stranik]

J Echo, on 20 November 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Ah, but you're assuming a 5-to-2 team balance. What happens when there's the same number of players (i.e. neither of the teams is stacking) but the players on one side only have the freebie lights with which to fight the five heavies?

That's a ridiculously made up situation. "Hurrrr, what if we took 5 newbies in 3025 Jenners and put them up against 5 players in Tech 3 Heavy Mechs?!???" Even World of Tanks does a better job matching teams than to put a team of 100% 1929 light tanks up against Tier 9 Superheavies.

Putting 5 free light mechs up against 5 Super-mechs with a balanced composition should have exactly 1 outcome 90+% of the time: The light mechs scattered to the winds in piles of molten slag - barring the most elite pilots.

Edited by Damion Stranik, 20 November 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[BLeeD]

buck rogers, on 31 October 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

Does anyone else here play World Of Tanks?

You can unlock 99% of everything available through gaining experience. It just takes a rather long time.

If you get bored, however, you can throw cash at WoT to unlock stuff instead. There is also premium ammo and a few premium tanks that are only available through cash.

I imagine MW:O will be very similar. I have absolutely no problem with that. The "have fun for free", "have even more fun if you throw money at it", business model is tried and proven. Anyone seen that Penny Arcade comic? "League Of Legends is free! It's totally free! I've spent eight thousand dollars on it!". I'm a big fan of that business model.
---Buck.

you guys stop ******* until the game comes out and you see how it plays. F2P is the wave of Pc gaming. if they do follow the WoT model it works fantastic. You do get a bit of advantage in open game play vs same tier tanks very slight but the best tanks are the ones you level up . the pay to play tanks are not a top tier either they are 1 or 2 tiers from the top .

Let them make some money and this game will be around for a long long time. And if it is very successful they might be able to produce a persistent world like 3025 was going after.

Edited by BLeeD, 21 November 2011 - 12:18 AM.

[Dsi1]

All of the comparisons to WoT make me very worried. That game is a grind-fest and might as well be P2W. (Kind of like how indebted servants might as well be slaves)

[BLeeD]

Dsi1 it is a bit of a grind threw the middle sections , and I know the mw crew will improve over the Wot model. But its a fantastic business model to start from. Thats why they have Pay to Play upper tier tanks. So you dont feel llike your grinding so much. I am sure like I said earlier that this will be a fantastic game for all Newbies and Old timers alike.

[Dlardrageth]

BLeeD, on 21 November 2011 - 01:11 AM, said:

Dsi1 it is a bit of a grind threw the middle sections , and I know the mw crew will improve over the Wot model. But its a fantastic business model to start from. Thats why they have Pay to Play upper tier tanks. So you dont feel llike your grinding so much. I am sure like I said earlier that this will be a fantastic game for all Newbies and Old timers alike.

If it were such a "fantastic" business model, one has to wonder why they have a rather low player number on the North American server? For a mainly arcade-ish game. And it's not really growing currently. Although it's not a complete fluke... yet. And don't even get me started on what unbalancing effects that truckload of "premium tanks" had on the middle tiers. Terrible. It leads to a feeling of having to go up against 65-75 ton mechs 9 times out of 10 in your 50 ton one.

The devs on WoT surely hauled in a decent load of money in the short run. But talking about longer-sighted business models, which look at running a MMO for years (like EVE-Online e.g.), WoT is a failure. Even in bigger clans there, like mine, we have quite some noticeable turnover in players coming and leaving. And clan warfare there is supposedly the "endgame" for the hardcore bunch. And don't even get me started on how many "hardcore" players back from closed beta turned their backs in disgust from WoT by now.

Some basic elements of their model could be useful for MWO. But pray for the devs here having enough insight to avoid some of the cardinal mistakes commited there. It wouldn't serve ours, and likely also not the company's best interest to go for a quick money-grab in the first few months and then basically be faced with no long-term customers to keep the game afloat. F2P can be run differently. Look at LotRO and how well they did with their F2P model. On a relatively old game in a somewhat more competitive segment of the market.

Of course it might also help to not have devs as terribad at customer relations as the ones on WoT...

[Galen Shannow]

It has nothing to do with thinking that F2P, P2W will ruin the game. It's people whining that they don't want to actually have to pay money to play the game, the rest is just fluff. Same people whined when games came out with a subscription, now its F2P but P2W and they whine about this. They are never happy. They probably sympathize with the OWS crowd.

And I love the newbie who pays 100 bucks to buy the big tank (mech) (using WOT as an example), cause usually they suck and it's free xp for anyone with half an ounce of skill

[VEDRFOLNIR]

Hmmm... WoT has been referenced a number of times in this thread - and it's boiled down to back-and-forth 'It's P2W' - 'No it isn't' - 'Yes it is!' - 'No it isn't!' All of it seems to be based on personal opinions of what makes a F2P game turn into a 'P2W' game.

IMO, this game doesn't look like a P2W scenario - and the quotes from developer interviews seem to validate my opinion. Naturally, we've still got a ways to go before the game is released - and I'm sure the argument will continue to pendulum back and forth between 'Yes it is!' and 'No it isn't!'

Unfortunately, there seem to be some who look at the same developer interviews and either say 'Yeah, but MWO will become P2W... eventually' or even worse, 'Well, I don't believe them! It's P2W! It is! I don't care what they say! It is! IT IS P2W!' IMO - calling the developers of this game liars is really FTL.

[Galen Shannow]

WoT isn't pay to win, it's just ARSPGTWIYDP (A really slow painful Grind to win if you don't pay). There are plenty of players on that game who coughed up the cash to buy a premium tank and who's skills don't really match the abilities of said tank and therefore make easier targets for the rest of us.

[AlanEsh]

Galen Shannow, on 21 November 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

WoT isn't pay to win, it's just ARSPGTWIYDP (A really slow painful Grind to win if you don't pay). There are plenty of players on that game who coughed up the cash to buy a premium tank and who's skills don't really match the abilities of said tank and therefore make easier targets for the rest of us.

Yes we get it, you're a Big Fan of WoT. I used to be a fan, but I've grown to hate it after a year and a half. Frankly, your last two posts make me hope against hope that MWO's model will be so different from WoT that you won't even want to play it. I don't want the devs here to cater to your flavor of myopia.

Edited by Angelicon, 21 November 2011 - 11:46 AM.

[Dlardrageth]

Galen Shannow, on 21 November 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

WoT isn't pay to win, it's just ARSPGTWIYDP (A really slow painful Grind to win if you don't pay). There are plenty of players on that game who coughed up the cash to buy a premium tank and who's skills don't really match the abilities of said tank and therefore make easier targets for the rest of us.

Right, and I am so totally looking forward to having that kind of people in the assault lance of my company. Those who just happen to buy an Assault Mech off the rack for real money, having no experience whatsoever with that weight class and try to pilot it like a 25-ton light one. Yes, you and me are perfectly happy having them pilot the main heavy hitters in our future Mech company, right?

Don't kid yourself, players eventually piloting a Mech (class) they have not a friggin' clue about can be as much an opportunity for easy effortless kills, as they can be a liability for your team. And I'd rather swap in those 4 scrubs in their just-bought assaults against 4 pilots in medium Mechs who know their ride and how to play it. And hopefully, MWO becoming something completely different from WoT, those 4 pilots in medium Mechs with some clue about what they are doing would wipe the floor with those 4 newly bought-in assault pilots.

Because it is not only about the money PGI could make from selling exclusive "premium" Mechs. It is also about the impact on general gameplay such a mechanism has. And the repercussions on the whole playerbase, the whole gameplay. It is admittedly a good solution for a quick money grab among your customers. It can be devastating though in terms of long-term customer relations and satisfaction.

We could maybe make a small exception for avowed House Steiner pilots, they have that whole thing about money and hardcore capitalism going IIRC, but... No, just kidding.

And if you recently took a look at the perceived "endgame" in WoT, the so-called clanwars and how stale and repetitive they have become, at least on the North American server, you really won't want MWO to go that way. Unless, of course, you happen to get your pay check from WoT, in that case you actually might want to...

Here is sincerely hoping PGI goes for a long-term customer binding and satisfaction model. And there are more than enough alternative sources to provide income to starting to sell "exclusive" Mechs for real money only. I personally would be more than happy to pay a monthly subscription fee just to avoid this, if nothing else.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 21 November 2011 - 05:42 PM.