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Mechwarrior vs Hawken



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#81 Fastidious

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

View Postlaconic specter, on 15 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

I had been looking forward to Hawken for a long time but I have to say that I'm really disappointed in it. While the game is fine from a technical standpoint, it really seems to me to just be an fps with clunky control and a mech skin. The mechs don't feel like mechs and I feel like I'm just playing halo with weights hanging off my character.


Indeed, I feel the same way. I even posted such on the official forums and they deleted my topic. Apparently Hawken was designed to appear as a twitch FPS but punish any twitch play at all. You're a walking turret in Hawken. MWO has more responsive controls. In Hawken there are various limits on mouse movement which make it move inconsistently and the mech movement is all messed up and doesn't feel right. It's not a tank like system but it's not a standard FPS either. It's stuck in some bad middle ground between a FPS and a sim.

The advantages Hawken has are performance (UE3 is faster) and more modes of play. I'd kill for FFA mode in MWO. MWO is much more fun for me and feels better all around from movement to mouse input.

#82 Rhaukten

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:40 PM

Mechwarrior and Hawken feel like completely different games in my opinion. Hawken plays like a twitch fighter, and the mechs are very maneuverable compared to MWO mechs. Even in a light mech in MWO, i dont feel as fast as the Scout in Hawken. Boosting, dash dodging and jumping allow for more quick reaction based gameplay.

MWO feels like a team oriented game, that rewards cooperation rather than lone wolfing. Heavies are slow and cumbersome, while lights are faster, and more manuverable but weak in firepower. Having only one life tends to make players more cautious, and well thought out strategies and good team communication win out in the end.

Both games play very differently, and comparing the game-play is like comparing chess with basketball. The only thing MWO and Hawken have in common, is that they are sci-fi based with an emphasis on mechs. the similaries end there. Even weapon types arent anywhere near similar, as Hawken prefers to use explosives and projectiles, forgoing signature sci-fi weapons such as lasers or energy weapons.

As for story, Hawken is completely original content focusing on a dystopian, grungy future full of wars for resources. Mechs are smaller due to lack of materials. Energy weapons are unheard of due to power being a scarce resource.

MWO is based upon Battletech, where massive(relatively rich in both mateirals and energy) populations are fighting eachother with massive, heavy war machines that dwarf anything Hawken has produced with even the smallest mech.

In conclusion, you can't put the two games against each-other like that. They're simply too different, and their targeted audience is completely different. MWO would be for more methodical, social players while Hawken would be more suited for impulsive, shy players.

#83 Anjian

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

Here are my takes about Hawken.

1. Basically feels like CoD or Unreal Tournament with mech skins. That for me is both good and bad. Good because it relies on a familiar framework for new players. I like pure Team Deathmatches, with respawns. I like a game that progresses playing with the same people again and again unless you or they choose to log off. I also like a game that lets choose the mechs for the match, as well as choose again a different mech when you respawn during a match.

Bad because it also competes with other FPS games more directly and won't catch to the market of people trying to avoid the tinge of FPS games. I got to say Hawken's Missile Base and Siege scenarios make much more sense than MWO's Assault and Conquest scenarios, and all the latter's capwarriors.

2. Okay, so it doesn't feel like a true simulator. Is that bad? But I won't call MWO a proper mech simulator at all because simply its mechs are too unrealistic and don't reflect real world usage of ballistics, missiles, technology and tonnage. Something as big as a Catapult weighs only 65 tons? A modern battletank weighs 65 tons and is much smaller. No auto aiming? Current real like anti aircraft defense systems like AEGIS do auto aim. A missile is supposed to be a one shot kill weapon, it should not take 40 or 60 of them to kill a mech. MWO itself is only a simulator for Battletech, not even potential mech technology. That's also both good and bad.

3. Hawken only uses a simple HP system like all FPS and RPGs do. MWO uses a more complicated system where parts have individual HPs, along with critical hit points. This allows for more gradual deterioration (losing arms, components, etc,.) but is harder to balance.

4. Hawken mechs are not really very configurable, although I do like its Optimization Point system, where you allot points for increased Offensive, Defensive or Movement attributes. If you want to emphasize Offense, it means less points for the other two. You can add various items to your mech to improve performance, and some of these items add to the tactical flavor, like bubble shields, radar emissions control. And turrets, yes, I like turrets. Those things can help you defend portions of the map.

However, being not very configurable like MWO means its also easier to balance, and avoid things that people often complain about in MWO like boating.

While not being that configurable in terms of weapons and so on, Hawken mechs are quite configurable in terms of appearance, as you can mix and match modular components like heads, torsos, arms, hips and legs to create your own Frankenmech, although it doesn't change your mech's basic attributes and upgrade tree. The modular construction is more similar to Armored Core and Chromehounds, but unlike these two, the modular skins are limited to one weight class only not interchangeable among different weight classes, so you don't mix parts of a Type A light mech with that of a Type B mech mech and a Type C heavy.

5. Yes, that infamous TV mech. Man it looks ugly. Kind of like Nissan Cube ugly, but it grows on you. It is deliberately tongue in cheek because the name of the mech is CR-T Recruit. CR-T, get it? The rest of the mech skins actually look good, kind of like BioShock steampunk good. Fred the TV as it is called, is its own taunt, when you see it dance after having blown your own shiny mech. And it does. This is the only free mech in the game, but for what its worth, it is competitive with every other mech in the game as has some of the best and most useful weapons.

I suspect the whole point of making it ugly is because, this mech alone is so competitive enough, that this is not an P2W game. The game wants you to change the appearance of the ugly mech, and those parts cost money. You change the appearance of Fred by using modular parts, which can only be bought with MC (Meteor Credits, which works the same way as MWO's MC). One thing I have to say about Hawken is that the things you want to pay for don't cost as much as MWO. I completely changed the appearance of my own Fred and added for some performance parts, for about roughly $5 in real world money.

6. In terms of mech classes, there are only Type A, B and C, which corresponds to Light, Medium and Heavy. All the stats of A class are the same, so are B and so are C. The mechs don't really differentiate each other in terms of HP and speed, except for the modular skin parts, the weapons (primarily the weapons), special ability and the leveling tree, which hands out special bonuses once each level is achieved (up to 25 levels). These include optimization points, and special bonuses to weapons like range and damage. This is probably why CR-T Recruit is competitive with all the other B class. Its HP and speed is no different from the others.

While the mechs don't really differentiate with each other in a very substantial way, it also makes them easier to balance. I suspect the C class Heavy Mech as a class needs a bit more love, but over all, the game seems well balanced, with most players choosing between the A and B class mechs.

7. You can acquire mechs through the EXP your earn or through the MC. All the mechs have the same price whether its A, B, or C. In terms of real world pricing, a mech would be like US$5, and you can buy all of the game's mechs for the price of two MWO hero assault mechs.

8. I got to say, I truly love these things in Hawken:

The Dirty Glass that makes you feel like you are in a cockpit. The glass gets progressively dirtier and cracked as the more damage you sustain, which is a good way of saying you need to heal yourself.

The Repair system that puts out a drone and lets you watch your mech being repaired on a 3rd party PoV. You can change the appearance of your repair drones by acquiring new models of repair drones with MC. Note, it doesn't make repairs faster, this is determined more with your optimization tables. But they are cute.

Turrets, bubble shields and cancelling radar emissions really help make the game more tactical.

Technicians. It's a special light mech that goes around repairing its teammates. It can fight on its own too.

9. I only entered the game just a few days ago, but I will say the game is pretty reliable. I have not seen any show stopper bugs like the anomalies you see in MWO like HUD bugs and so on. There are times my mech doesn't move but I won't blame that to lag but because I got crowded into a bunch of teammates. I kind of feel at this point, the graphics are better than MWO at this point, no texture bugs and so on. No disconnects and leechers either. I feel I am getting better FPS than I do with MWO using the same hardware on their game's default settings. There is a better tutorial system and overall the UI seems more polished than MWO at this point. Hopefully MWO comes out with UI 2.0 soon.

10. There are a few things both Hawken and MWO are similar. Similar tactics --- there is a constant voice in the cockpit that reminds you of the universal adage. Stay together, and you win. Work apart and you die. Its still all about teamwork. You can also do DFA (Death from Above) attacks. Game has three classes of players --- brawlers, snipers and tanks. And the tankers can be both brawlers and snipers too. Game is very fast. Imagine if MWO is fought mainly with light mechs and Cicadas and you get the picture. The main difference is instead of circling, you can be sidestepping (the distinguishing characteristic of an FPS).

Both have a similar flaw as well. Matchmaking needs to be better, as well as autobalancing. It needs a meaningful community warfare framework, like what Chromehounds achieved. Should note that Hawken is already ahead in implementing 20 and 24 (12 vs. 12) matches, as well as built in voice chat.

Edited by Anjian, 14 May 2013 - 09:49 PM.


#84 SlimJim8519

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:04 PM

Tried out Hawken, because got fed up with latency issues which I have been encountering since the "launch".
And I have to say that wow, although the mechs arent as cool as in MWO, the UI and the feel of progression makes me wonder: what has PGI been concentrating on, seriously? Found the Hawken to be actually quite enjoyable.

#85 Anjian

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

I like what I see with the new patch, although going around the new menus, well feels dizzying at times.

Huge rebalancing. Lots of stuff that seems like tuning up mechs feels increasingly P2W.

Disparity between elite veterans and newbies are going to widen here.

In a sense, I like the old prepatched Hawken more. Greater familiarity. More even playing field. I take my level 25 Scout for the first time in months and felt i couldn't damage anything I hit at, while I feel like I'm blown away in less than a second. Turns out there are is now a lot of tuning in the arnament and armor.

Latency issues too. Some people don't seem to have it. Others like me, got it in spades. I use to be 180ms on the US West Coast servers, that's even faster than my ping times to MWO (around 230ms). Now I am getting 270ms to 300ms in Hawken. For a game that relies too much on speed, that is like standing still forever.

I like to try the new map and the new Vanguard mech. But those latency issues, those changes, I guess I am going to shut the door on the game for good. I have other games I am interested in playing (I'm in Armored Core Verdict Day now), there is no need for me to bend backwards for Hawken.

One thing I can say about Hawken though. The polish and the work they have done on this game makes PGI in comparison, an embarassment. They have not been putting out maps and mechs as fast as PGI does, but they have done a lot of improvements on the game's overall meta. Just those latency issues is the fatal flaw for me.
I wish their endeavors well. I hope they fix those problems.

#86 Frozen Spirit Jac

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:30 AM

Tried it, didnt like it so much, yes, it is similiar to MW but so is Front Mission and other robot spinoff games. Sorry, no changing this MW Digger!

#87 Antasius

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:58 PM

Tried Hawken for the first time today. It does feel to me that scout mechs here are on the same page as the Hawken crowd. My guess is that PGI is trying to pull over the Hawken players with their "twitchy" interpretation of MW scouting.

I agree Hawken fills a knish that is well implemented, and the more MWO veers away form lore and the giant robot feel, the more I am liking the fresh style of Hawken. I'll play both games now, but Hawken get's my money until PGI gives me a solid reason to keep investing.

#88 Anjian

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:24 PM

Another major new patch. First it was Ascension and now the new patch is called Invasion. For the first time ever they added a Coop mode. You and your team face progressively harder waves of bots and drones till you either pass Wave 25, or you die. I will say, this is fun. They also added a new mech, the Predator. Also from where I am sitting at, ping times now seem better, at least now back in the same stage as the "old" beta.

Hawken as it stands now in November, is a tremendous leap from where it was in May, when I first got into it, and stopped at the end of that month. While it has only added two new mechs since then (Vanguard and Predator) and one major map, the fundamentals of the game were practically overhauled. Every weapon is rebalanced and now has additional tuning customizations. Whole new add ons. Increased mech ranks. Elite skins. Special skins. Offline modes. New training mode. A whole new UI. Improved graphics. Its practically a new game.

With AI bots and drones, it opens up the possibility they can add not just additional coop modes, but finally story missions and package the game in the future as a stand alone single player game.

One thing that is changed is the outright simplicity of the old version has been replaced by a rich complexity in options and modules that may lure you in spending money. Previously though, I often wondered how Hawken can subsidize itself. In the old version, much like MWO, you buy mechs out of MC (Meteor Credits, aka real cash), or Hawken earnings which is virtual currency you earned from each game. The system has changed now, mechs become available for you one by one at no cost as your level goes up, all for free, but now there are a lot of ingame customizations, items and modules to spend. So they also fundamentally overhauled the business model.

Right now, I would say I used to be deeply sceptical, and now I am greatly impressed.

They are also building a mobile version for the nVidia Shield.



Last Eco map



Predator




Not all is rosy though. The 12v12 modes that were being experimented on, appears to be have been scrapped. I think I need to ask this in their forums why.

#89 Deathz Jester

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:51 PM

View PostAnjian, on 06 November 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

-snip-



I'll admit back when Hawken first started being playable, it sucked, and I thought it sucked up until this update. Which is how long I didn't play Hawken, now I'd rather play a couple matches of Hawken and drop multiple times in one match and still not know if I'll win or lose than play in a crappy elo ridden, bug ridden MWO matches that are inevitably going to end poorly.

#90 Heffay

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:39 PM

View PostIron Harlequin, on 08 November 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I'll admit back when Hawken first started being playable, it sucked, and I thought it sucked up until this update. Which is how long I didn't play Hawken, now I'd rather play a couple matches of Hawken and drop multiple times in one match and still not know if I'll win or lose than play in a crappy elo ridden, bug ridden MWO matches that are inevitably going to end poorly.


I bet you're a blast at parties.

#91 Ares01

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

So I got fed up with this game after a year and few months because the game was the same in some areas and worse in others compared to last july/august closed beta, and decided I might as well go play Hawken since I was still desperate for mech action.
I was amazed at what I found! Even though Hawken didn't go into open beta until December 12th of last year, later than MWO, it actually feels like a complete game and full light years ahead of MWO. Lobbies? Check. Good interface that isn't so bad it needs to be redone completely? check.
While there are fewer mechs, there are more modes instead, (not just the same mode twice, like MWO, but some really exceptional modes such as siege), a full noobie training simulation, you name it. Hindsight is 20/20, and it makes me regret spending my money on this game just so I could continue to fund monthly mechs and whoever they pay to go in and strategically break the netcode every patch (sarcasm, but almost believable).
Has anyone else tried it out? I don't know if I'm so impressed with it because this was so bad or if because it's actually that good. Sound off in the comments below!

Edited by Ares01, 26 November 2013 - 05:31 PM.


#92 Roadbeer

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:29 PM

Posted Image

#93 Ares01

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 26 November 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Posted Image


its not letting me use my enter key for some reason....it'll be fine

#94 Toong

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:38 PM

View PostAres01, on 26 November 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

So I got fed up with this game after a year and few months because the game was the same in some areas and worse in others compared to last july/august closed beta, and decided I might as well go play Hawken since I was still desperate for mech action.
I was amazed at what I found! Even though Hawken didn't go into open beta until December 12th of last year, later than MWO, it actually feels like a complete game and full light years ahead of MWO. Lobbies? Check. Good interface that isn't so bad it needs to be redone completely? check.
While there are fewer mechs, there are more modes instead, (not just the same mode twice, like MWO, but some really exceptional modes such as siege), a full noobie training simulation, you name it. Hindsight is 20/20, and it makes me regret spending my money on this game just so I could continue to fund monthly mechs and whoever they pay to go in and strategically break the netcode every patch (sarcasm, but almost believable).
Has anyone else tried it out? I don't know if I'm so impressed with it because this was so bad or if because it's actually that good. Sound off in the comments below!


Hawken's customization is skum, and I can't shake the feeling I'm in a weird, futuristic Call of Duty game whenever I try to play it. I will agree with you that it feels like a complete game, but that's not a compliment, because despite its polish, the experience feels pretty shallow.

Unlike Mechwarrior Online.

#95 Ares01

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

I think the customization is just as good, just different. It doesn't allow for game-breaking builds and each mech really does have a purpose and use. Also, why would you consider Hawken shallow and MWO not? In hawken, two good pilots no matter what mechs will have a good fight. In MWO its still very weight-based. Not to mention MWO is truly a grind as XP and money one use. Money, buy high alpha weapons and DHS and ENDO maybe debate about Ferro. XP just the usual skill tree. Hawken= 8 categories to tune, items, internals, etc.

#96 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:04 PM

microwaves on legs... i vowed never to go to the derp side.

#97 Ares01

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:25 PM

ill give you that much. some of the mechs look ridiculously weird, especially the TV/Microwave starter mech. however the heavies are pretty bad ***, especially when they put their shields down.

#98 Psydotek

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:27 PM

I'm just here to agree that MWO is seriously lacking in the gameplay modes.

#99 Thorqemada

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostAres01, on 26 November 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:



its not letting me use my enter key for some reason....it'll be fine


Probably you need to click the "Toggle Editing Mode" Button in the top left of the textbox.

#100 Surtr

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:47 PM

But Hawken isn't in the battletech universe, so it doesn't interest a large portion of the player base here. Also its CoD for mecha nerds.





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