52 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

According to BattleTech rules, XL Engines can by hit through the side torso as well as the center torso, but Standard Engines can only be hit through the center torso. Should this apply to MW:O, or would Mechs with XL engines become too fragile if they can be critically-hit in the engine from the side?

[wwiiogre]

absolutely

[Cyote13]

XL engines should be balanced in someway. The extra size is a good way to do that I think, and it doesn't require a change away from BT core ideas.

[CoffiNail]

XL needs a disadvantage or everyone will just toss in XL engines.

[TheRulesLawyer]

XL engines are a huge advantage in weight. Its only fair that they have to keep the disadvantage too.

[LordKelvin]

This really depends on customization options. Obviously, we won't be able to swap out engines on our 'Mechs as we please; even in-universe it's something that requires pretty much coring the 'Mech since you're replacing the most expensive piece of a machine that for hundreds of years was considered more irreplaceable than the pilot. Given that we probably won't be able to swap out weapons on basic BattleMechs as we please, swapping out engines is further out of the question since that would allow players not only to save weight but also to upgrade the engine rating (assuming weight allows), resulting in a 'Mech that's both faster and able to carry more armor or weapons.

Given all the above, XL engine-carrying 'Mechs certainly should have disadvantages. I'm not sure how the developers intend to handle engine crits (in the tabletop game it's handled as an increased 5 heat per engine crit per turn), so besides destroying a 'Mech through destruction of a side torso, there should be, in my opinion, the option to inflict heat management penalties by landing engine crits.

[Siilk]

Yes, but I think vulnerability shouldn't be as bad as CBT describes it, as in MW games players usually have a lot more control over targeting desired parts of the mech, than it is possible in tabletop.

[Kiff Stevenson]

This is one of the key aspects of the XL series of engines (be they clan or IS).

It really makes you think carefully about what, exactly, you want from your 'mech. I don't see why you would change this.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I thoght it's pro was half the weight?
Edit -corrected error - thanks TRL

Edited by Nik Van Rhijn, 08 March 2012 - 02:23 AM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 06 March 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

I thoght it's con was half the weight?

Think you're confusing pro and cons there.

[MaddMaxx]

TheRulesLawyer, on 07 March 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Think you're confusing pro and cons there.

Let's quickly clarify for the folks at home shall we.

A Pro: Someone who gets paid way to much money to Catch, Throw, Bounce or Kick a stupid Ball.

A Con: Someone who is currently incarcerated or attempting to break out of said incarceration.

[Sym]

absolutely

[Damocles]

Unanimous thus far huzzah agreeable community !

[IceSerpent]

Voted yes, asuming that we won't have pinpoint accuracy. If we will have it, it would be better to treat XL engines like regular ones in terms of damage, but balance weight advantage with XLs taking more space, thus allowing for less available space to mount weapons and other stuff. Yes, I realize that "it takes a lot of space, but you can't hit it through a side torso" is not entirely realistic, but that's the best idea I can come up with at the moment.

[Lycan]

Voted yes. For all the reasons stated so far . . .

That and it's canon Battletech. IS XL engines take up 3 crit slots in both the left and right torso sections. Clan XL engines only take up 2 in each side torso . . .

[Felicitatem Parco]

So here's the question: If we have a standard engine, then our Mechs will be "killed" when the internal sructure of the center torso is blown-out, but will the same exact case hold for both side torsos and the center torso of a Mech equipped with an XL engine?

I mean, wow, that's a very fragile Mech. I never played TT, so could someone tell me if this is a correct interperetation of the rules that apply to XL engines?

[WerewolfX]

I can agree with this. In addition if that is not the case of doable I can see hmm the sides are out ok mech runs hotter (In some cases gaining small amounts of heat or large if Heatsinks are toasted or as they are toasted.) and the top speed of the Mech is decreased by either 25% or 50% depends on how bad the damage is.

[Bouncin]

Prosperity Park, on 09 March 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

So here's the question: If we have a standard engine, then our Mechs will be "killed" when the internal sructure of the center torso is blown-out, but will the same exact case hold for both side torsos and the center torso of a Mech equipped with an XL engine?

I mean, wow, that's a very fragile Mech. I never played TT, so could someone tell me if this is a correct interperetation of the rules that apply to XL engines?

That is the correct interpretation. It is a very significant con to offset an even greater pro (in my oppinion). Consider the fact that speed equals greater tactical advantage in regards to flanking, difficulty for opponents to hit, and rapid response, as well as the fact that many times you could increase the speed and still use less weight than a standard engine. Taking these facts into account, I realy think sticking with the canon on this is the best way to balance the extreme benefits XL tech gives.

[Mattiator]

I feel that blowing away a single side torso to core a 'Mech toting an XL engine is a little too extreme in a game where we can actually aim our shots with quite good accuracy.. Potentially it could bring speed reductions close to blowing a leg off, and a core if both side torsos are destroyed. In addition to or instead of that, perhaps also increased heat buildup to represent the fusion plant leaking. Just some ideas.

[Sprouticus]

Mattiator, on 09 March 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

I feel that blowing away a single side torso to core a 'Mech toting an XL engine is a little too extreme in a game where we can actually aim our shots with quite good accuracy.. Potentially it could bring speed reductions close to blowing a leg off, and a core if both side torsos are destroyed. In addition to or instead of that, perhaps also increased heat buildup to represent the fusion plant leaking. Just some ideas.

Just wanted to bring this up again post gameplay video. Assuming XL engine mechs are incorporated into mechs in MWO you NEED to have a downside for the XL machines. If you dont put the side torso downside into the XL machines, they will quickly become the only mechs used because you get soo much back form the weight saved (either much greater speed, greater armor, more weapons or a little of all 3.