334 replies to this topic

[Tryg]

Dras Black, on 17 March 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I don't see why this would be a bad idea personally i feel bad whenever I accidentally TK/FF and in this game with NO re-spawns I'll feel worse, I want to give the player C-bills to fix the dmg that I accidentally did. Mind you my Blue-on-Blue fire is minimal but I cant speak for everyones aim and how everyone else feels. I pay for what I F-up. i don't see why I should just give my lance mate the finger and say "Fix it you're damn self" if it was my bad. The main problem being the people that run out in front of a full spread of missiles or a few PPC shots.

What I like about this one...is short of laying into the triggers at spawn, the cost isn't going to be too horrendous, so when you do get someone cutting in front of you, or you twitch-fire into a team-mate, it doesn't reap all your winnings, just a cost for the damage inflicted. However, if you were to intentionally go out of your way to inflict harm on your whole team, the cost would add up. And while I'm sure it will happen, the slightly slower-pace of the game (with weapon convergence as opposed to an FPS twitch-style) will give you just that extra hint of time to be sure of your target, reducing the risk of laying open a lance mate who's foolishly lumbering between you and the enemy.

[Dras Black]

Tryg, on 17 March 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

What I like about this one...is short of laying into the triggers at spawn, the cost isn't going to be too horrendous, so when you do get someone cutting in front of you, or you twitch-fire into a team-mate, it doesn't reap all your winnings, just a cost for the damage inflicted. However, if you were to intentionally go out of your way to inflict harm on your whole team, the cost would add up. And while I'm sure it will happen, the slightly slower-pace of the game (with weapon convergence as opposed to an FPS twitch-style) will give you just that extra hint of time to be sure of your target, reducing the risk of laying open a lance mate who's foolishly lumbering between you and the enemy.

Thats also true, I suppose the main thing I'm worrying about is a little Light running in front of a LRM 20 burst and leveling a city block cause those LRMs can pack a punch resulting in a big "Oops" moment.

Eater way, I agree, I ding you're mech, I pay the price. Theres no way around it if you ask me.

[Tryg]

And that could certainly be a possibility depending on the flight-path LRM's take after launch. But the hope would be, such would be a rare event so as to perhaps slap ya with a large bill once, but not frequently. If they have a level flight path, there's the risk of exploits, but there's no way to absolutely eliminate exploits. The best you can hope for is the devs take into account a number of potentially major game-breaking ones, and the more minor ones are little enough of an impact that they can't be abused too much.

[palebear]

LordDeathStrike, on 17 March 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

pardon me all, genious moment:

This made my day. Thank-you!

[wwiiogre]

can't blame him for not readling all the posts,

genius moment



Chris

[LordDeathStrike]

palebear, on 17 March 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

This made my day. Thank-you!

what did ya think of the moment itself? charging repairs caused by ff to the offending shooters, thus griefing your team = very very expensive to you, no charge to the griefed.

[palebear]

LDS, I think the back-charging of FF would be an interesting mechanic, but I'm not sure how well it'd be accepted by the general public... especially the noobs.

[Hawkeye 72]

Alright, let;s clear some things up.

1. My "in-game police" comment was referring more to a couple employees at PGI ensuring us denizens weren't destroying the IS with stupidity. Just a failsafe to avoid this: http://www.cracked.c...-online-gaming/

2.

Hexion, on 17 March 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Reading some of the posts i get the idea 'lone wolves' arent welcome in this game comes out loud and clear. It seems the name of a type of player the devs mentioned in posts has turned out to be a very bad thing?

Others talk about how they dont want to play with ('new'-'bad') players. It seems like a lot of alienation before there is even a release date. I hope this isnt what the community is about.

NO. This is very incorrect and the opposite of my topic. I welcome the lone wolf mentality and in NO WAY want the alienation of new players. I welcome the opportunity to train new recruits and if you want to roll solo I am perfectly okay. Just don't shoot me in the back please

3.

Moenrg, on 17 March 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

Interesting discussion and one I never think about since my primary MMO is EvE Online. However if this really bothers you, then only drop with people you trust/know.

This seems to be a good course of action and will help foster the community.

Red Beard, on 17 March 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Post of the Week. Did anyone pay attention to the second paragraph? No teamkill governing mechanics. Just let the players regulate themselves. That's why the US is having so much trouble now, over-regulation. Don't let the Obamites destroy this game too! No regulations other than the players!

Really? I feel like you once shot a man in the back...just to watch him die lol in all seriousness cut the politics. In 3049 democracy is dead anyway lol

[Darkrasp]

Reality is there are a number of people who will do everything they can to mess up your games. There don't have to be a lot of them, because a few of these people can cause havoc way out of proportion to the percentage of population they represent. There needs to be some kind of preventative measure against it, but one that can differentiate between a new player learning the game and an intentional troll.

Of all the suggested things thus far, I prefer a reputation system and the ability to remove players from the team before the match even starts. Maybe a League of Legends-style split between "ranked" games and "skirmish" games. Skirmish games don't reward many xp or cbills, but neither do they cost anything, win or lose, and your win/losses in these games are not tracked. New players can use these to learn the game, experienced players can use them to learn new 'mechs, etc. Once you've got X number of games played you are then eligible for the "ranked" games, which have a more rigorous selection process and allow your team to vote to boot players with poor reputation.

My concern is for new players. Even myself, in a way. I played the heck out of MW2 back in the day, and plenty of tabletop, but I havn't kept up with the series and wouldn't consider myself a professional by any means. I'd hate to start off slow and get relegated to ELO hell with no hope of ever getting out once I start getting better, especially if you can't just create a new account to start again.

[Belisarius1]

LordDeathStrike, on 17 March 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

pardon me all, genious moment:

TK repairs, should be billed, to the player that shot the friendly (aka track who dmgs what, if you hit your team mate, your cbills will be garnished to fix every point of dmg, from armor paint dings, to that arm you blew off, to that reactor you breached)

That's actually quite a good idea, although I have to say, people who misspell "genius" when announcing their genius idea always leave me wondering whether to bother reading on.

I think that should be included. I think it'd be a nice passive deterrrent. You'd have to make sure repairs for teammates were paid for automatically and before the player was able to spend any funds for their own purposes, and possibly cost double or more.

However, it's going to need to be backed up by a self-sufficient in-game system anyway.

If money is the only detriment (and this is the problem with balancing and enforcing anything via the metagame), a good player with some cash in the bank could afford a griefing spree every few games and be fine. After the game has been out for a year and the 12 year olds have used their infinite free time and their father's credit card to amass an unlimited bank account, it's not going to do anything at all.

Edited by Belisarius†, 17 March 2012 - 08:45 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

Darkrasp, on 17 March 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Reality is there are a number of people who will do everything they can to mess up your games. There don't have to be a lot of them, because a few of these people can cause havoc way out of proportion to the percentage of population they represent. There needs to be some kind of preventative measure against it, but one that can differentiate between a new player learning the game and an intentional troll.

Of all the suggested things thus far, I prefer a reputation system and the ability to remove players from the team before the match even starts. Maybe a League of Legends-style split between "ranked" games and "skirmish" games. Skirmish games don't reward many xp or cbills, but neither do they cost anything, win or lose, and your win/losses in these games are not tracked. New players can use these to learn the game, experienced players can use them to learn new 'mechs, etc. Once you've got X number of games played you are then eligible for the "ranked" games, which have a more rigorous selection process and allow your team to vote to boot players with poor reputation.

My concern is for new players. Even myself, in a way. I played the heck out of MW2 back in the day, and plenty of tabletop, but I havn't kept up with the series and wouldn't consider myself a professional by any means. I'd hate to start off slow and get relegated to ELO hell with no hope of ever getting out once I start getting better, especially if you can't just create a new account to start again.

far easier to just charge people that team shoot the repair bill of the damage they inflict on friendlies, either they learn to aim or they go broke. stops griefers from tk, teaches noobies to aim, doesnt require special game modes, just dmg tracking code (1 point dmg/that chasis=x cbills) its clean simple and effective. and if you do get idiots trying to impede you shooting by trying to stay in front of you, you are free to leave the game to avoid a repair bill from the other team rolling you cause you have idiots on team.

[Name140704]

Automatic kick vote after a TK would do me fine.

[LordDeathStrike]

Belisarius†, on 17 March 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

That's actually a great idea (although I have to say, people who misspells "genius" when announcing their genius idea always leave me wondering whether to bother reading on).

I think that should absolutely be in. You'd have to make sure repairs for teammates were paid for automatically and before the player was able to spend any funds for their own purposes.

It's also going to need to be backed up by an in-game system anyway.

If money is the only detriment (and this is the problem with balancing and enforcing anything via the metagame), a good player with some cash in the bank could afford a griefing spree every few games and be fine. After the game has been out for a year and the 12 year olds have used their infinite free time and their father's credit card to amass an unlimited bank account, it's not going to do anything at all.

the genious part, is for humor, you and I are the only ones to know about it so far, I find that hilarious.

as far as lil johny sumofabiatch, daddies cc has a limit, and as long as he pairs the repairs, you dont get all mad that he shot you. the cbills are autodeducted from the offenders accounts, even if it makes them go into debt (say you tk my atlas, repair bill 4 million, you have 1 million, you are now 3 million in the red, your fault haha, suck it) now an atlas is not easy to tk, you really gotta be gunnin for me as a friendly to break that much armor (19 tons of heavy).

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 17 March 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Darkrasp]

NARCoMAN, on 17 March 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Automatic kick vote after a TK would do me fine.

Sure, but now you're fighting 10v12 and you're almost definately going to lose. Which means you aren't getting paid and you're wasting time and repair money. Better to have the ability to kick someone in the pre-game if their rep is poor so you don't have to deal with them at all.

[Tryg]

Losing matches could still be infuriating, but it takes some of the sting out of it when you aren't saddled with the repair bill on top of the loss. So without going into over-regulation mode, its an easy way to prevent intentional TKing from being quite such a viable tactic. And yes, if someone builds up a nice large bank account, they can afford to do it. But if you've got real money on the line, or have spent a lot of time playing to earn all those C-bills, are you going to want to throw them away in a chaotic FF spree? If they decide they want to, hey, at least they spent some of their money (or daddy's money, either way, they're supporting the game in at least some fashion, better then the sorts who aren't doing anything but harm to the community).

[Darkrasp]

Tryg, on 17 March 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Losing matches could still be infuriating, but it takes some of the sting out of it when you aren't saddled with the repair bill on top of the loss.

You might not be, but the rest of your team who had to fight 10v12 (and lost) still are. You would need total loss forgiveness for this to be viable.

Edited by Darkrasp, 17 March 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[Wyzak]

This idea of charging someone for friendly fire repairs is great, but I think the game should go a step further and apply that damage to the offending mech.

For example, say someone in a Jenner team-damages an Atlas and shoots it's arm off. There are more points of armor on an Atlas arm than a Jenner arm, so the damage on the offending Jenner would be arm loss and bleed over into the torso. This makes all players pick shots very carefully, like you would be required to do in real combat, and the feedback from your own mech's damage monitors would serve as a deterrent to intentional woundings. This is especially effective when training people to use Long Toms and area effect weapons. I know in MW4Mercs you generally had to pick a block of enemies your friendlies weren't engaged with if you were going to effectively use the Long Tom because the AI pilots always got in too close. I imagine the same will happen here with all the gung-ho FPS players MWO will attract. So there's no real "bad boy" benefit to be received by shooting at friendlies, because it is only going to damage YOUR mech. And if it's an accident, the damage will remind you to aim more carefully and lay off firing into a melee.

[I 8 40 C00K13Z]

Just disable any team damage like TF2 so you can't really do much harm.

[Tryg]

In this particular case, it would be 11v12, as the method I'm supporting is making the offending player pay the repair cost of his 'victim' so he'd still be up on the battlefield. And in the case he opts not to fight with the team, it was 10v12 regardless as the victim didn't likely have a choice in their demise.

[Darkrasp]

If someone costs you the game by killing a teammate right off the bat, then they cost the entire team the loss, not just the person they killed. Having the TKer pay the repair bill for the person they took out doesn't sufficiently compensate the team. The only way that works is through loss forgiveness, which is exploitable if people who are fighting a losing battle blow up their own teammates just so they can claim a TK cost them the match and get it forgiven.

Reputation, and the ability to boot someone in team selection if their rep is bad. Only real way to get rid of teamkilling/afking/other griefing is to not allow those players into your games at all.