108 replies to this topic

[00dlez]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Yes and no. Easy to learn, hard to put into practice. A lot of the time people lose because they lose track of the primary objective. They know they are scouting, but they get carried away and keep shooting instead of firing one quick blast and run.

Also, this isn't a team game. It's a game where individuals can choose to make teams. Baseball is a team game, MWO isn't.

If your 12 person TEAM doesn't coordinate with one another and provide mutual assistance (what us fancy edjumicated types might call "teamwork"), you will loose to the other 12 person TEAM...

[Nick Makiaveli]

00dlez, on 23 March 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

If your 12 person {possibly temporary} TEAM doesn't coordinate with one another and provide mutual assistance (what us fancy edjumicated types might call "teamwork"), you will loose to the other 12 person {possibly temporary} TEAM...

You need to go back and use some of that fancy edumacashun to re-read what I said. I never said we didn't play as teams. You said people who don't want to be team players shouldn't be here. I was addressing that. They have the same right to come here and play like idiots as we do to come here, join a team, and be team players.

MWO isn't a team game. You don't have to join a team to join MWO. Or even to play the game. Thus my edits to what you said up there.

PS not trying to be a smart "donkey" here. I think you just misunderstood where I was coming from, or mistook me for one of the great unwashed masses who happened to randomly mash out a semi-coherent thought.

[MaddMaxx]

Bryan Ekman, on 23 March 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

This is one of our concerns and will be addressed by a lot of play testing and balancing. I view the OP's concerns as a stick if we do not address it correctly. I don't want people to be punished so severely, that they are no longer able to play. This is a game after all, something we do for enjoyment.

I am sure a good system will be found, but I will add my thoughts (for DM) just in case.

Death Match - Teams assemble, 4-8-12 per side. When the slots are full the computer calculates the over-all cost to bring every Mech on both Teams back from total ruin (can't lose a chassis remember) then assigns that C-Bill value / # of Team members to an electronic cash Pool. One per side.

When the Match ends, all earned C-Bills and accumulated Team Bonuses are added to the Pool and then distributed amongst the individual Team members.

The opening C-Bill Pool can never drop below the opening "all Mechs will get C-Bills enough to pay for a "back to operational level" of repairs, then all destroyed Mechs get that as a min. game reward even after a loss. Any Pool that is not exhausted simply gets reset. The winners will not lose every Mech right? Eezy Peezy.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 23 March 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[Dlardrageth]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 March 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

[...]
PS not trying to be a smart "donkey" here. I think you just misunderstood where I was coming from, or mistook me for one of the great unwashed masses who happened to randomly mash out a semi-coherent thought.

Damn, just as I was about to hand you an all new and shiny soap bar.

Agree about the right of people having a "right" to come here and play like total nitwits. Even play in a way that actively hurts their team (TK etc.). Even if you debated that "right" existed, they'd still try to come. Probably even all over your face, some "people" just are like that.

I just hope PGI gives us the right/option to blacklist those so we needn't bother with them any more after one misspent match. Otherwise I might have to get a macro or something to disconnect from matches so I won't have to waste 20 minutes of my lifetime thanks to those dweebs.

[00dlez]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 March 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

You need to go back and use some of that fancy edumacashun to re-read what I said. I never said we didn't play as teams. You said people who don't want to be team players shouldn't be here. I was addressing that. They have the same right to come here and play like idiots as we do to come here, join a team, and be team players.

MWO isn't a team game. You don't have to join a team to join MWO. Or even to play the game. Thus my edits to what you said up there.

PS not trying to be a smart "donkey" here. I think you just misunderstood where I was coming from, or mistook me for one of the great unwashed masses who happened to randomly mash out a semi-coherent thought.

To address this and get back on point - your analogy is bad, hence my misinterpretation. I can play in a baseball game for a team I'm not officially a part of, just as a lone wolf can play a match for a faction/team he isn't officially a part of. MWO and baseball are both team games...

To the OP's concerns, what happens if a player always loses? They wont get enough money to fully repair their mech or get better gear etc.

I say that's not an issue.

A player would have to truly be terrible to the point their team loses every round. If a player(s) insist on simply running head long into the enemy, employing no team tactics and losing every round, and end up quitting cause it is no fun, THAT is what I have no problem with.

Even a player who isn't very good, who has a desire to improve (if only to get better gear) will, those who refuse to improve or change will simply be ruining my and likely other peoples fun. Good riddance if they quit.

[Gabriel Amarell]

OK, this might not seem "fair" but I think its necessary, players who are unskilled, truly unskilled, who lose over and over need to be given enough in game money even from those losses to fully repair (and by fully repair i mean ALL primary systems, engine, sensors, heat management systems, armor, and atleast enough in game money to field the games more inexpensive weapons).

My proposal is simple, if you lose frequently, your "rank" drops, you get matched against players of similar rank, and the lower the rank the less costly repairs are. I hear the complaints already, but this will reward losing/penalize winning, sitck with me.

The average player will win roughly 50% of the time, maintain an average rank, and earn enough money to have a custom mech outfitted with anything they want (even if it takes a lot of time to get the in game money to pay for it) as will anyone else who wins more than 50% of the time.

The "bonus" (by bonus i mean reduced cost of repairs) would kick in for players who win less than 50% of their matches and it would not allow them enough money to pay for a custom mech, it would allow enough money to pay for a fully functional stock mech, if they want a custom mech they would need to fork over a nominal amount of (insert the name of your nations currency) to purchase the in game money to have a customized mech.

Anyone, regarless of how bad they are at the game should be able to play with a fully functional stock mech and enough in game currency to equip it with basic inexpensive weapons, without forking over any real world currency. Anyone who plays at an average level (wins roughly 50% of the time) should be able to field a custom mech and repair it, but it should take time to earn enough money in game to do it. Anyone who wins more than 50% of the time should earn enough in game currency to field a custom mech, and the process should be faster the higher your win %.

Lastly, anyone, regardless of win % should be able to drop a nominal amount of real world currency and get enough in game currency to field whatever they want.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Dlardrageth, on 23 March 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Damn, just as I was about to hand you an all new and shiny soap bar.

Agree about the right of people having a "right" to come here and play like total nitwits. Even play in a way that actively hurts their team (TK etc.). Even if you debated that "right" existed, they'd still try to come. Probably even all over your face, some "people" just are like that.

I just hope PGI gives us the right/option to blacklist those so we needn't bother with them any more after one misspent match. Otherwise I might have to get a macro or something to disconnect from matches so I won't have to waste 20 minutes of my lifetime thanks to those dweebs.

We are on the same page

00dlez, on 23 March 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

To address this and get back on point - your analogy is bad, hence my misinterpretation. I can play in a baseball game for a team I'm not officially a part of, just as a lone wolf can play a match for a faction/team he isn't officially a part of. MWO and baseball are both team games...

To the OP's concerns, what happens if a player always loses? They wont get enough money to fully repair their mech or get better gear etc.

I say that's not an issue.

A player would have to truly be terrible to the point their team loses every round. If a player(s) insist on simply running head long into the enemy, employing no team tactics and losing every round, and end up quitting cause it is no fun, THAT is what I have no problem with.

Even a player who isn't very good, who has a desire to improve (if only to get better gear) will, those who refuse to improve or change will simply be ruining my and likely other peoples fun. Good riddance if they quit.

I was thinking of organized baseball, which is a team sport as opposed to pickup games. Whereas not many MMOs require you to team up before you ever actually play the game. So let's just leave it at that.

I don't have a problem with stupid people quitting. Or being black listed etc. I also don't mind if MWO is setup so that you can take more damage than you can earn C-bills to repair. Pain is a great motivator.

All that said, I think Gabriel's idea has merit, but I can see issues. If there is any sort of trade between players, then selling C-bills in the CS would lead to serious inflation. That said, $X amount to repair your mech I could see even though it would effectively add money to the game.

[Sug]

Just give everyone an unlimited supply of free Urbanmechs.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Bryan Ekman, on 23 March 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

This is one of our concerns and will be addressed by a lot of play testing and balancing. I view the OP's concerns as a stick if we do not address it correctly. I don't want people to be punished so severely, that they are no longer able to play. This is a game after all, something we do for enjoyment.

This is good to read

[Felicitatem Parco]

Sug, on 23 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Just give everyone an unlimited supply of free Urbanmechs.

You, Sir, are a genius.

[Fabe]

Sarriss, on 23 March 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Dude where are you that you could have watched Gundam Wing last week? They need to put out a definitive collectors set of it *sigh*

Bandai has had Gundam wing out under thier Anime leagends line for years now,its two box set but its out there.

[Namwons]

I also remember in 1 of the dev blog them saying players get a daily salary depending on faction rank. Not sure about lone wolves or merc corps though.

[Hayashi]

Nick Makiaveli, on 23 March 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Here's the thing. You can always go forth and fight. Thus you will always win some cash. Let's say you have half of what you need to fully repair your mech. Don't. You heard me. Leave the money in the bank and take that partially repaired mech into the battle. Your teammates ill hate you, but you did bring some modules that mean you aren't totally useless right? So win or lose, you now have more cash. Rinse, repeat until you can repair your mech and try again.

An alternative plan is don't repair certain weapons. IE MG, SL, etc on a LRM mech. You rarely use them, so just spend the cash and get your armor up to speed. If you suck at close range combat anyway, chances are they will just get blown away anyway and you will have to buy them again.

In other words, spend your money wisely, and you won't have a problem. Waste it, and you will.

The best way to accumulate money is to not spend it.

[Steel Talon]

Repair should be counted on basic hull repair+every damaged module+damaged weapons, faction members should recieve discounts on repairing faction specific eq

[HighlandWolf]

MechaKitsune, on 23 March 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Guessing it will work similar to World of Tank's system, in that repairs will be affordable even on the C-Bills you will earn from a loss.

Larger, more expensive mechs later in the game may cost more to maintain, but your early mech(s) should cost relatively little to repair. I'm sure the devs wont let anyone fall into a black hole of inability to afford simple repairs.

if i remember rightly in WOT if you cant afford to fix a tank/repair..it stays out of commission until you can afford to fix/repair it which is good that you can have more than one tank in your tank bay/garage. This is also one of the reasons why i think being able to have more than one mech (yes you have to buy them with enough c-bills i get that..thats good too..in game economy maybe) would work..if you cant afford to repair a mech fully , just use another mech to make c-bills until you can afford to repair/fix/upgrade your main or favourite.

[Carl Wrede]

HighlandWolf, on 23 March 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

if i remember rightly in WOT if you cant afford to fix a tank/repair..it stays out of commission until you can afford to fix/repair it which is good that you can have more than one tank in your tank bay/garage. This is also one of the reasons why i think being able to have more than one mech (yes you have to buy them with enough c-bills i get that..thats good too..in game economy maybe) would work..if you cant afford to repair a mech fully , just use another mech to make c-bills until you can afford to repair/fix/upgrade your main or favourite.

Yes this is one area where they absolutely should take a look at World of Tanks system as it works very well.

The lightest mechs should be repaired free of charge and you should be able to make some c-bills even from a loss with the early/light mechs.
When you graduate to more advanced/heavier mechs you might make a loss from a battle if you are not doing well in it and be forced to play a couple of rounds in a lighter mech to afford the repairs on your heavy mech.

[HighlandWolf]

Carl Wrede, on 23 March 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Yes this is one area where they absolutely should take a look at World of Tanks system as it works very well.

The lightest mechs should be repaired free of charge and you should be able to make some c-bills even from a loss with the early/light mechs.
When you graduate to more advanced/heavier mechs you might make a loss from a battle if you are not doing well in it and be forced to play a couple of rounds in a lighter mech to afford the repairs on your heavy mech.

I dont know about this..if youre a lone wolf or a merc and you didnt complete your objective or you lost a match, do you get paid?..even a little? if not..how would you pay the bills? unless you have savings? and if youre in a house..if you lose your mech do you become disposessed until you can afford to get back in the mech you lost/ruined?

i understand not wanting to make it hard for players..ESPECIALLY in the beginning..cause im sure to be someone who might need that extra little help in the beginning until i get my feet under me..but you dont want it too easy

Now, as a merc if you have insurance..you could claim the insurance so you could fix your mech?..in a house they give you a lesser mech until you earn enough to fix your actual main mech?..or you become disposessed (your mech could beinaccessible for a short period of time forcing you to either use another mech..IF you have one you bought or aquired..until your main mech is "recovered"?)
in WOT they made it really easy to keep playing..you start off with a bunch of tanks..and to start with everyone is matched with similar mechs and just blasted eachother willy nilly hoping to make enough to get that next mech..which they sold to get the next mech..im hoping they dont make it THAT easy

Edited by HighlandWolf, 23 March 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Gabriel Amarell]

Personally, I for one do not want to see everyone forced to play the light mechs when they need money. What does that say about light mechs... that their the useless things people are forced to pilot when they need money.

The biggest draw of this title (to me) was the idea that light mechs aren't supposed to be a stopgap, the joke you play in till you can get a "real" mech. Light mechs are supposed to be viable, useful things people pilot because they want to. not something they are forced to play because they need money...

If light mechs are useless and this turn into a play a heavy or dont bother I personally wont bother, and I am pretty certain I'm not the only one. DO NOT force people to play light mechs to make money, it's a completely wrong approach to this issue, it totally devalues the contributions of those of us who WANT to pilot the light mechs.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Gabriel Amarell, on 23 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Personally, I for one do not want to see everyone forced to play the light mechs when they need money. What does that say about light mechs... that their the useless things people are forced to pilot when they need money.

The biggest draw of this title (to me) was the idea that light mechs aren't supposed to be a stopgap, the joke you play in till you can get a "real" mech. Light mechs are supposed to be viable, useful things people pilot because they want to. not something they are forced to play because they need money...

If light mechs are useless and this turn into a play a heavy or dont bother I personally wont bother, and I am pretty certain I'm not the only one. DO NOT force people to play light mechs to make money, it's a completely wrong approach to this issue, it totally devalues the contributions of those of us who WANT to pilot the light mechs.

I don't think anyone is saying they are useless, just that in the meta-game, they have the advantage of being cheaper to repair. Doesn't affect their use on the battlefield. I personally plan to pilot several light mechs. Love the idea of using my Panther to hunt other lights

[Thorolf Kylesson]

I believe that if you are part of a permanent cohesive team then the option should be there to pool up money to help a teammate get repaired.
If Larry, Daryl, and Daryl came out of the fight in good condition but Bob got his butt blown off keeping them alive then they should be able to help him get back to pristeen condition if they choose.

Edited by Thorolf Kylesson, 23 March 2012 - 08:20 PM.