373 replies to this topic

[CyBerkut]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 06 July 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

id go with the HOTAS, but it doesnt seem to have a 3 axis option or id buy it. is there any HOTAS option with a 3 axis like the cougar or warthog?

The Saitek HOTAS controllers that have a twist grip are:
X-52
X-52 Pro
X-65

The earlier, discontinued X-36 and X-45 had a rudder rocker switch on the throttle instead.

Another HOTAS that has a twist grip, (AND a rudder rocker on the throttle too), is the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X.

http://www.thrustmas...tflight-hotas-x

It doesn't appear to have nearly as many controls as the Saitek offerings, but then... it is a lower cost affair. Unfortunately, Thrustmaster does not include support for that HOTAS in their TARGET profiling software.

[shotokan5]

Their is no reason to go out and pay $400.00 for basically the same controller the X52Pro for much less. In the X series I am still having problems getting the aiming radical to work like the mouse though they say it will be ready before live. If someone has an answer to that problem please tell me. I worked with dead Zones but it did nothing. The thrustmaster though I have had a number of them is not worth the money. Sorry.

[CyBerkut]

shotokan5, on 11 July 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Their is no reason to go out and pay $400.00 for basically the same controller the X52Pro for much less. In the X series I am still having problems getting the aiming radical to work like the mouse though they say it will be ready before live. If someone has an answer to that problem please tell me. I worked with dead Zones but it did nothing. The thrustmaster though I have had a number of them is not worth the money. Sorry.

Not sure which post you are referring to. If you are replying about the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X mention... that one is inexpensive (much less than the Saitek X-52Pro).

http://www.amazon.co....flight+hotas+x

[KingCobra]

Paul I have a great answer for you go buy yourself a copy of MechWarrior4 Mercenaries open it up see how the pro's coded it works like a charm for almost every joystick out there still in production. Owe and if a 10+ year old game can make it work like a charm im sure PGI can.

Edited by KingCobra, 11 July 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Loc Nar]

KingCobra, I share your frustration. Unfortunately this is not a situation of PGI simply not 'getting it' or knowing what a joystick is. The problem is much deeper, much more fundamental. Reticule aim is coded in zero-order, just like moving the cursor in your browser, so the only thing they're guilty of is making this concession to the kbm crowd. A normal joystick is a first-order controller, and as such it a fish out of water in a zero-order application. Just like flight sims, previous mech titles were coded for joysticks and the mouse and other zero-order controllers took a back seat, although it's much easier for first-order mechanics to be adapted to a zero-order controller than the other way around.

zero-order control: direct manipulation of target position
first-order control: manipulation of target velocity/direction

These control fundamentals are not interchangeable, nor are the devices that best control them.

I recommend reading, or at least skimming the writeup I did on the subject, called Controls Demystified(?) where this is explained in greater detail. Also, not all joysticks are first-order controllers, but unless you make your own you likely do not have a zero-order joystick. I made one for MWO if you want to see an example.

[KingCobra]

Just trying to help Loc MechWarrior is just not the same without joystick support im working on a new VR setup for MWO like the one I built for MW4 with a tesla pod.Cry3 SDK is da bomb. This is a small plugin for the original Flowgraph Plugin System by Cry-Vlok, still work in progress though. It adds a new flownode (Input:Joystick) which will return some useful joystick informations similar to the Mouse:MouseInfo node. The X,Y,Z joystick axis output ports are working properly at the moment and [I've added LUA support] and of course the button states too. Maybe this node is useful for some modifications, especially some flight simulator modifications.

The node itself has now 1 input port for the joystick you want to use (if more than one joystick is plugged in). By default the first plugged in joystick is used though. There are several output ports for the different joystick values too:

• X: X-axis, usually the left-right movement of a stick.
  
• Y: Y-axis, usually the forward-backward movement of a stick.
  
• Z: Z-axis, often the throttle control. If the joystick does not have this axis, the value is 0.
  
• X-Rotate: X-axis rotation. If the joystick does not have this axis, the value is 0.
  
• Y-Rotate: Y-axis rotation. If the joystick does not have this axis, the value is 0.
  
• Z-Rotate: Z-axis rotation (often called the rudder). If the joystick does not have this axis, the value is 0.
  
• Slider: Two additional axis values (formerly called the u-axis and v-axis) whose semantics depend on the joystick.
  
• POV: Direction controllers, such as point-of-view hats. The position is indicated in hundredths of a degree clockwise from north (away from the user). The center position is normally reported as - 1. For indicators that have only five positions, the value for a controller is - 1, 0, 9,000, 18,000, or 27,000.
  
• Button Pressed: Indicates which button was pressed
  
• Button Released: Indicates which button was released

The axis min/max values are normalized to -1000/1000. I've also added basic LUA support (global scriptbind name: Joystick), so it is possible to retrieve the joystick values or select a joystick via LUA too.

• Joystick.GetXAxis();
  
• Joystick.GetYAxis();
  
• Joystick.GetZAxis();
  
• Joystick.GetXRotate();
  
• Joystick.GetYRotate();
  
• Joystick.GetZRotate();
  
• Joystick.GetButtonState(button);
  
• Joystick.SetJoystick(joystick);
  
• Joystick.GetNumButtons();
  
• Joystick.GetPOV();
  
• Joystick.GetSlider();

Edited by KingCobra, 11 July 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[Loc Nar]

Hmm, this looks very interesting, like something I'd like to help with; but I have no idea what it is you are trying to accomplish just yet. Are you trying to program an Oculus dev kit to work with MWO? Some other VR hardware? Get a joystick to work?

Joysticks are already basically as supported as they are gonna get in the rough sense, and can currently be used with MWO after a little or a lot of fiddling, depending on what route you go. I'm all about immersion and using a stick too... which is why I built my mechpit, and my stick in it currently has over 3200 matches on it. About all you could expect from PGI for joystick support is for it not to be a pain in the *** to adjust sensitivities or curves or deadzones and things like that, but almost all joysticks work as is and all the mentioned parameters can be tweaked already with varying degrees of ease. Any TARGET capable sticks already has better self support than one could even expect from a fully fleshed out AAA sim title whether PGI lifts a finger or not.

However there's still no getting around the fact that reticule aim is coded for zero--order control and MWO is being played by people using zero-order controllers (mice, my joystick, etc), and that is what makes a normal joystick (any first-order controller, really) a fish out of water regardless of PGI's 'support' of it or not, and where the fundamental departure from previous mech titles lies. This concession to the kbm crowd has already been made and I'm pretty sure there's no going back from here.

Which type of Tesla Pod did you have/work on? I almost bought a gen 1 pod not long ago, but I only wanted to scavenge some parts out of it as it was weathered and I never liked the cabinets on them anyhow; big, heavy, and look too much like a regular arcade cabinet but I've always had a soft spot for those gen 2 pods... those things are truly inspiring. My heart cracked in half when I realized MWO could never be made as kickass as even a gen 1 Tesla due to the fact that PGI will not allow the export of the UI... buh bye, fully enclosed cockpit simulator

[Darius Cole]

Well, after a very long absence from the MechSphere, I am back...
...with a problem in using my venerable Saitek X36 HOTAS setup.
Now, this may sound like whining to some, but I'm just wondering if this can be changed: Ever since I've been playing the MechWarrior titles (MW3), I had my set-up configured to have the rudder controls on the throttle to control torso twist and the joystick to control my direction. It seems in MWO that the joystick has been configured to be used for weapons-aiming via torso twist & elevation.
The configs for the game are a little confusing: I ended-up trying to change the configuration to achieve my goal, and ended-up with a torso that would only twist in one direction and a mech that would only turn in one direction.
Any pointers or direction would be deeply appreciated!
Darius_Cole (aka Scott Kindorf)

[CyBerkut]

Darius Cole, on 12 July 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

The configs for the game are a little confusing: I ended-up trying to change the configuration to achieve my goal, and ended-up with a torso that would only twist in one direction and a mech that would only turn in one direction.
Any pointers or direction would be deeply appreciated!
Darius_Cole (aka Scott Kindorf)

It sounds like you assigned the rudder rocker axis in the wrong part of the Options menu. The upper rows are for keyboard key bindings. The lower section has the axis bindings, and you need to scroll down to reach them. Scroll down to "Torso Twist, Pitch, Analog Throttle and Analog Turn" rows, to bind your analog axis controls over in the third "Joystick" column.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

sometimes i find im more out of control and think my config isnt being read and
in a file called omicron.log i found this


Initializing AI System
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_gain
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_sensitivity
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_throttle_range
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_throttle
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_pitch
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_yaw
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_turn
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_deadzone



cl_joystick_gain = 5
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0.3
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1
cl_joystick_invert_yaw = 0
cl_joystick_invert_turn = 0
cl_joystick_deadzone = 0.1

is whats in my user.cfg

do they work?

Edited by Gorantir, 13 July 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[CyBerkut]

Gorantir, on 13 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

sometimes i find im more out of control and think my config isnt being read and
in a file called omicron.log i found this


Initializing AI System
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_gain
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_sensitivity
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_throttle_range
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_throttle
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_pitch
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_yaw
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_invert_turn
[Warning] Unknown command: cl_joystick_deadzone



cl_joystick_gain = 5
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0.3
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1
cl_joystick_invert_yaw = 0
cl_joystick_invert_turn = 0
cl_joystick_deadzone = 0.1

is whats in my user.cfg

do they work?

I'd advise deleting the pitch and turning entries... just use the check boxes provided for those in the MWO Options menu as needed.

Keep in mind that those cl_ entries are dependent upon having your corresponding joystick axis properly assigned in the third (joystick) column of the options menu in the appropriate rows (down near the bottom of the list). Some people mistakenly assign those functions in the upper rows, (which are for key bindings).

The other potential 'gotcha' is if you plug or unplug controllers after making the assignments. Adding or removing another joystick, for instance, can cause the stick(s) to be seen as different numbers. For instance, when I plugged in a Thrustmaster T.16000M to experiment with, it caused my Saitek HOTAS and rudder pedals to each increment up 1 in number, which invalidated my assignments.

[FEK315]

What about this:
http://www.amazon.co...left+hand+mouse

[Reod Daie]

Even though my joystick is plugged in, I can't get a response out of it AT ALL. Is this user.cfg file for people who are having the problem I'm having, or is it for those trying to fine tune playing with their already working joystick?

[CyBerkut]

Reod Daie, on 16 July 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Even though my joystick is plugged in, I can't get a response out of it AT ALL. Is this user.cfg file for people who are having the problem I'm having, or is it for those trying to fine tune playing with their already working joystick?

The user.cfg items are for joystick (or HOTAS or Rudder pedals, etc.) controllers that are properly installed and recognized in the Windows Control Panel. If Windows doesn't 'see' your controller, there is nothing PGI can do in MWO to rectify that.

[Reod Daie]

CyBerkut, on 16 July 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

The user.cfg items are for joystick (or HOTAS or Rudder pedals, etc.) controllers that are properly installed and recognized in the Windows Control Panel. If Windows doesn't 'see' your controller, there is nothing PGI can do in MWO to rectify that.

Maybe I wasn't clear. Windows does recognize my joystick controller but the game doesn't. Will this help me then?

[CyBerkut]

Reod Daie, on 16 July 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Maybe I wasn't clear. Windows does recognize my joystick controller but the game doesn't. Will this help me then?

You may wish to check these out:

http://mwomercs.com/...r-latest-patch/

http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry2563180

The MWO Repair Tool may be your ticket...

[Reod Daie]

CyBerkut, on 17 July 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

You may wish to check these out:

http://mwomercs.com/...r-latest-patch/

http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry2563180

The MWO Repair Tool may be your ticket...

I won't lose anything by using the repair tool right, since everything is online?

[CyBerkut]

Reod Daie, on 17 July 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

I won't lose anything by using the repair tool right, since everything is online?

As in mechs/mechbays/camo, etc.? No.

Control or display configurations might go away if you had something customized.

[REV005]

Ok so where are we at now since July 2013 patch? I just got Logitec3dpro and an trying to set up. One cant tell whats working for joysticks now because all the old info is mixed in with the new. It was a ***** to find the user cfg file in windows 8 but i did that. I m also running the logitec game profile software.

1) Do i have to restart after every user cfg change? because as is I dont see any changes in performance using all the settings given in forum. i change settings in window while in testing grounds. nothing drastic changes. my vertical dead zone is to big while the horizontal is fine. also the A and D keys on key board don't work since settings change.

2) Should i not be using the profile software since the update?

3)How the hell do you delete a button assignment in the in game control options under joystick?

I only want fire control and aiming on the joystick not leg turning. I got that by setting Twist range in profile to 0. just now i can't use keys to turn even though they are still mapped there.

Thanks

[CyBerkut]

REV005, on 19 July 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Ok so where are we at now since July 2013 patch? I just got Logitec3dpro and an trying to set up. One cant tell whats working for joysticks now because all the old info is mixed in with the new. It was a ***** to find the user cfg file in windows 8 but i did that. I m also running the logitec game profile software.

1) Do i have to restart after every user cfg change? because as is I dont see any changes in performance using all the settings given in forum. i change settings in window while in testing grounds. nothing drastic changes. my vertical dead zone is to big while the horizontal is fine. also the A and D keys on key board don't work since settings change.

2) Should i not be using the profile software since the update?

3)How the hell do you delete a button assignment in the in game control options under joystick?

I only want fire control and aiming on the joystick not leg turning. I got that by setting Twist range in profile to 0. just now i can't use keys to turn even though they are still mapped there.

Thanks

It's been a long time since I used a Logitech 3D Pro, so I don't really know what their current profiling software gives you for your joystick.

Generally speaking, the best bet (IMO) is to use MWO's Options menu items for axis assignments, and axis behavior modifiers that it provides (see check boxes in lower left corner of the menu). For other axis behavior modifiers, you can dabble in the USER.CFG of MWO, but you will likely get more satisfying results by using either your Logitech profiler software (if it gives you sensitivity and gain adjustments), or a 3rd party joystick program such as http://atzitznet.dyn...use3/index.html

I would recommend that you do your joystick button assignments in your profiling software, so that means you'll need to unbind them in the MWO Options menu's Joystick (3rd) Column.

Since you asked about unbinding those, there are at least two ways to do it.
1. If you know your way around editing the actionmaps.xml file, you can do it that way.
2. The simpler, yet more tedious way (recommended) is to choose a button you aren't going to use [if you have one] and methodically go through the assignments in your joystick column, binding them to that button. As you do so, the assignments will be unbound from the button they were on. If there is a function you have no need of (in my case the "Invert Throttle" function) assign that one to that button last.
2a. If you didn't have a button to spare, then you just have to pick one to use to do the re-binding described in 2., and then edit your actionmaps.xml to clear that last remaining assignment. Make that button's assignment text look like the other ones, and it should come up cleared when you restart MWO.

3. (This might work...) Alternatively... Exit MWO completely, back up your current actionmaps.xml and USER.CFG to a safe place, THEN unplug your joystick, restart Windows, restart MWO. Check your MWO Options menu, and it should not show any joystick bindings. Plug in your joystick and then make your joystick axis assignments in MWO's Options menu. Keep your fingers off of the joystick buttons while you are in the MWO Options menu, just to be safe.

Hope that helps!