132 replies to this topic

[Cache]

Caladan Nix, on 27 October 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

The Yen-Lo Wang has never actually had a hatchet.

The MW:DA line changed the YLW significantly, adding a hatchet and shield but changing the colors. Of course that has nothing to do with this era of the timeline.

The CCG image shows a good representation of the "nails" on the left hand. Originally it was called a hatchet on the record sheets because that was the only manufactured melee weapon at the time. Chaffee's image shows it as an actual claw... presumably because a claw is an actual melee weapon in newer products while there are no "nails".

Wingbreaker, on 27 October 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I assume the green mech is supposed to be a wolfhound, which would fit with it having an ERLLAS in the right arm.

Reseen Wolverine, heavily modified (mace, spikes, etc.).

[New Breed]

Tennex, on 26 October 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Nationality is something millions riot over, wars are fought over it, lifetime are spent within it. How can say its something not to be offended over? Or even hint that the wishes of these people are dismissible

HAHA.. oh man, if people riot because of the mech that would be BEYOND hilarious and prove that this world has gone to crap. No no no.. crap is not the word. I can't think of how pathetic that would be.

in fact I'd love to see it.. please, riot because of a paint job.

[Mystere]

Tennex, on 26 October 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Nationality is something millions riot over, wars are fought over it, lifetime are spent within it. How can say its something not to be offended over? Or even hint that the wishes of these people are dismissible

If only this was so.

[Wingbreaker]

cache, on 27 October 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

The MW:DA line changed the YLW significantly, adding a hatchet and shield but changing the colors. Of course that has nothing to do with this era of the timeline.

The CCG image shows a good representation of the "nails" on the left hand. Originally it was called a hatchet on the record sheets because that was the only manufactured melee weapon at the time. Chaffee's image shows it as an actual claw... presumably because a claw is an actual melee weapon in newer products while there are no "nails".


Reseen Wolverine, heavily modified (mace, spikes, etc.).

So it is. Didnt see the SRM pack at first. Man that's an awkward angle.

[Dax Frey]

I shall once again repeat myself. why in the name of all things holy are people butthurt over a paint job that resembles a flag Japan (JMSDF) currently uses as their naval ensign...they still use it! you guys are silly.

Now if it was a charger (mech) painted Dixie and named General Lee...I'd still laugh at you because no one seems to get too upset that Dixie is flown throughout the southern united states even though its history is far more evil than a naval ensign.
.

[Kristov Kerensky]

pursang, on 26 October 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Based on is not the same as exactly the same thing. With your flawed logic, you could say that the United States of America = Roman Empire because they have a few key similarities. Similarly the Chinese have as much in common with Capellans and the Japanese have as much in common with the Dracs.

However, as we should both know, that's a ridiculous assertion... isn't it?

psst...we're both arguing the same point...

Cel..as someone else stated, LET them riot over the paint scheme of a single object in a video game, I expect it will have about as much result as the boycotts of ChikFilet by the GLBT organizations..yeah..their stock dropped what..oh..it went up..huh, how about that. Yeah, go on, lets have all those Chinese people start rioting about this, can you imagine the PR that would get this game? Holy hells, that's bloody brilliant!

[Wingbreaker]

Dax Frey, on 27 October 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I shall once again repeat myself. why in the name of all things holy are people butthurt over a paint job that resembles a flag Japan (JMSDF) currently uses as their naval ensign...they still use it! you guys are silly.

Now if it was a charger (mech) painted Dixie and named General Lee...I'd still laugh at you because no one seems to get too upset that Dixie is flown throughout the southern united states even though its history is far more evil than a naval ensign.
.

lolwut.

First off, you're right that the JSDF flies a version of the maritime ensign, but it's not the imperial ensign from WW2.

I also hate to go into theory, but a flag is one of the most basic levels of representation. You can't really get around that. A flag necessarily represents the actions of a nation, especially those actions within an era wherein it was flown, since it is the visual representative of that nation. Thus why the confederate battle flag (lol, btw, that's NOT the flag of the confederacy) is associated openly with the bloodshed especially, but also draws memories of the oppression caused in that era by same nation.

Also, yeah, The imperial Japanese military in that era was preeeeetty bad.

[Cel]

Dax Frey, on 27 October 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I shall once again repeat myself. why in the name of all things holy are people butthurt over a paint job that resembles a flag Japan (JMSDF) currently uses as their naval ensign...they still use it! you guys are silly.

Now if it was a charger (mech) painted Dixie and named General Lee...I'd still laugh at you because no one seems to get too upset that Dixie is flown throughout the southern united states even though its history is far more evil than a naval ensign.
.

I don't know why you're repeating yourself when the clear distinction is there. It shouldn't be painted like the Japanese naval flag and have a Chinese name for the mech. I'm not offended by it, I've already stated that. It's just clearly wrong, it's two things you don't mix up. But it's being revealed more and more that Battletech's asian clans are even more screwy than that.

This is going to be a topic you'll never hear the end of when it goes into open beta because absolutely nobody who knows about Japan and China will be okay with this. I showed this mech to multiple friends since it's on the front page of the website and the first reaction was "why is the Japanese flag on a Chinese mech?" They weren't offended, they simply acknowledged SOMETHING is WRONG with that design.

If you're going to take things from the real world and add them to a sci-fi story, at least get your facts straight. 28 years too late for that, but it doesn't mean PGI has to stick to those stupid mistakes.

[Dax Frey]

Cel, on 27 October 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

"why is the Japanese flag on a Chinese mech?"

It's not a Chinese mech.

it was built by Corean Enterprises which is based out of Davion space

The only thing Chinese about it, is its name. And possibly its medium lasers...reportedly built by Ceres Arms

[Digital Ninja]

Paul Inouye, on 26 October 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

You guys are driving me nuts.

The paint scheme on Yen-Lo Wang is a CANON paint scheme. We did not mistakenly stick a somewhat Japanese related emblem on a Chinese named Mech. We just kept the color from the stories/miniatures/trading cards/TT etc etc etc.

And before you start waiving your torches around, we will be releasing some new info on the other hot topics. This one was personally grating on me.... so there!

- Paul


BTW: I am Japanese and am very well aware of the slight oversight of the original design but we kept it since it was canon.

Thanks for explaining that for people. I understood, but some people didn't.

[Joseph Mallan]

Paul Inouye, on 26 October 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

You guys are driving me nuts.

The paint scheme on Yen-Lo Wang is a CANON paint scheme. We did not mistakenly stick a somewhat Japanese related emblem on a Chinese named Mech. We just kept the color from the stories/miniatures/trading cards/TT etc etc etc.

And before you start waiving your torches around, we will be releasing some new info on the other hot topics. This one was personally grating on me.... so there!

- Paul


BTW: I am Japanese and am very well aware of the slight oversight of the original design but we kept it since it was canon.

I don't think it was an oversight. Its Artistic License. That lil thing that each artist does that makes a work His or Hers alone. AND it is possible that when it was written the paint scheme was used as a slap in the face of Hans Davion the supposed betrayer of Dan Allard. Why wouldn't he use a paint scheme that invokes the "thought" of House Davions greatest enemy in the Universe?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 October 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Adridos]

Dax Frey, on 27 October 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

And possibly its medium lasers...reportedly built by Ceres Arms

Ceres is a company from Brazil.

[Cel]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 October 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

psst...we're both arguing the same point...

Cel..as someone else stated, LET them riot over the paint scheme of a single object in a video game, I expect it will have about as much result as the boycotts of ChikFilet by the GLBT organizations..yeah..their stock dropped what..oh..it went up..huh, how about that. Yeah, go on, lets have all those Chinese people start rioting about this, can you imagine the PR that would get this game? Holy hells, that's bloody brilliant!

Bad publicity is good publicity right? I guess, I don't know. All I know is this isn't the first time it's happened before, you may not read a lot of news but most game developers go back and change a lot of things when someone catches something offensive in their games.

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - The original Gerudo Symbol - a crescent moon and star - was changed due to its similarity to the Islamic emblem. Contrary to popular belief, this change first occurred during its Nintendo GameCube release and not present in any official Nintendo 64 cartridge.

League of Legends - In Karthus' Chinese splash artworks, he does not have a skull face. This is likely because the use of exposed bones in video-games is explicitly forbidden in China (a famous example is the race Undead in World of Warcraft, where in the American server their bones are exposed, while in the Chinese server they're covered).

Call of Duty Modern Warfare - "YouTube user KhaleDQ84EveR points out in a video that two paintings are hung in the map's bathroom that feature a quote from the Muslim prophet Muhammad, which reads "Allah is beautiful and He loves beauty." He explains that it is forbidden for Islamic holy teachings to be featured in bathrooms and sought an apology from Infinity Ward, as well as the removal of the content."

Soul Calibur - Arthur is a fictional character in Namco's Soul series of fighting games. He makes an appearance in the first Soul Calibur, where he replaces Mitsurugi in countries that discouraged samurai imagery and references, such as Korea, as well as in several arcade machines in the United States.

Fallout 3 - In the Japanese version the player no longer has the opportunity to detonate the nuclear bomb in the center of Megaton, this is due to the similarities between this and the atomic bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Also in the Japanese version, FatMan was renamed Nuka-Launcher also because "FatMan" was the code-name of the atomic bomb that fell on Nagasaki.

Final Fantasy IV - In the North American version, references to Christianity were altered or removed from the game, as well as certain images. The magic spell Holy has been renamed White. All references to prayer are eliminated; the Tower of Prayers in Mysidia is renamed the Tower of Wishes (though the White Mage in the tower still calls it "Tower of Prayers"); and Rosa's Pray command is absent. Direct references to death are omitted, although several characters clearly die over the course of the game. Anything considered too risqué has been censored, such as bikinis on town dancers (replaced by leotards). The Programmers' Room special feature (in which the player can find a ***** Magazine) has been removed. New promotional character art was made for published previews.

Super Contra - Renamed "Super C" because Konami thought that the word Contra would be an offensive reference to an event. (NA)

It doesn't matter if it affects us personally, you guys can preach that people should get over it and it's just a game, but it's not as easy as that if you want your game to succeed worldwide like other F2P games and not just the 25 Battletech nerds that talk about lore day in and day out on these forums.

[Mister Haha]

heimloss, on 26 October 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

そもそもこの今の世間に生きてこのペイントをOKする"Japanese"のポール氏はどうでしょう。「元々のザインは・・・！」と取りたくない責任を他所に擦り付けても開発者としての素人っぽさがばれるだけだよ。

中国がこのペイントでお怒りになったらここの掲示板、コミュニティ等はどんだけ荒らされるか分かっているのかね？

that was a pretty epic response

[Cel]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

I don't think it was an oversight. Its Artistic License. That lil thing that each artist does that makes a work His or Hers alone. AND it is possible that when it was written the paint scheme was used as a slap in the face of Hans Davion the supposed betrayer of Dan Allard. Why wouldn't he use a paint scheme that invokes the "thought" of House Davions greatest enemy in the Universe?

What, the Japanese? Because it's a Japanese flag.

[Dax Frey]

Adridos, on 27 October 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Ceres is a company from Brazil.

In the BT universe they are Capellan. Capellan is widely regarded as the Chinese State, although they do contain MANY nationalities.

[Adridos]

Cel, on 27 October 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

What, the Japanese? Because it's a Japanese flag.

By the standards of people who complain about the scheme Kurita = Japan and House Davion's biggest enemy is Kurita at this time.

And Dax Frey:
"Ceres Metals was originally founded on Terra, with its headquarters in Sao Paulo, Brazil."

As for being from Capellan Confederation, yes, but the Confederation is made of three main and even more minor nationalities. The big three is Scottish, Chinese and Russian. The Ceres's new HQ is set on Capella a word of completely no national identity (it is a planet of scholars, people there can and are of every single nationality you can think of).

Edited by Adridos, 27 October 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cel, on 27 October 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

What, the Japanese? Because it's a Japanese flag.

Because Davion could never roll stomp House Kurita. House Kurita was a predominately Japanese influenced House. It does make sense.

[Jennest]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Why wouldn't he use a paint scheme that invokes the "thought" of House Davions greatest enemy in the Universe?

He didn't. He used a paint scheme that invokes the thought of House Davion.

I mean, people seem to be thinking the Draconis Combine is Space Japan, therefore everything Japanese belongs to the Draconis Combine. I understand why they would think that way, and I'm sure many Battletech and Mechwarrior writers and artists have done the same.

However, the Combine isn't the Land of the Rising Sun, it's the Land of the Dragon. It would be weird if Yen Lo Wang had a dragon on it like the fanart on page 2, even if our Earth Chinese people put dragons on things from time to time. In the 31st century, sunbursts are associated with the Federated Suns, which has sun right in its name and uses a sword over a yellow sunburst as its emblem. If a former Federated Suns officer wants to express his supposed antipathy to the Davions, doesn't a blood-red sunburst make perfect sense?

When you're dealing with a fictional universe, you have to take that universe on its own terms. You could make Yen Lo Wang more 21st century Chinese by painting the current Chinese flag on it, but that wouldn't make the slightest bit of sense within the Battletech universe. You can complain the paint job looks like a Japanese symbol, but people in Battletech wouldn't know what you were talking about. It looks like some kind of Federated Suns thing to them.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Anyone that is actually upset by the paint job on a giant stompy robot in a video game set in the 31st century does not deserve any respect.