219 replies to this topic

[Landsharkk]

Think the game is ready for release to the public and for PGI to start taking your money?

Here's what to expect:


-No item descriptions/stats
-no in-game tutorial,only 1 out of game tutorial thats only 10 min long
-only 4 maps, buggy maps
-few mech chassis(variants are nice but still basically the same mech)
-PGI removes mechs/variants with no warning (Where did the Centurion CN9-AH go? - replaced with a real money mech)
-horrible mech lab implementation(tab system made it worse), buggy mech lab
-netcode fails to properly register fast moving objects(now with no collisions)
-questionable pilot xp system(should be options against grinding different variants of what is essentially still the same mech)
-unbalanced weapons
-few weapons/systems(narc?beagle?)
-DHS not working as originally intended
-Horrible match-up system
-Only one game mode (8 vs 8 team deathmatch/capture the base hybrid - PGI admitted this was their 'test' game mode)
-Economy is unbalanced(spend money on MC to buy mechs that you cannot afford to repair)
-crashes to desktop
-random fps drops
-no in-game computer voice(all systems nominal, heat levels critical, outside mission parameters, etc.)
-no music
-not fully implemented in game voice chat system(havent tried this so not 100% sure on this)
-no chat room, no ability to communicate post-match
-no fix to prevent players from quickly grinding for c-bills using a method that I am not even allowed to discuss on the forums(lets just say that its very detrimental to others enjoyment of gameplay)


I think PGI needs to do some full disclosure here. This game is not ready for open beta/release to the public/giving them your money.

Your thoughts?

Edited by Landsharkk, 26 October 2012 - 04:24 PM.

[Toong]

Nope.avi



This is a beta, not a launch. Fluff is unnecesary. The mechanics we have now work reasonably well, and an injection of fresh eyes is precisely what this game needs.

Edited by Toong, 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[Sa7aN]

yep i see this failing in a most amazing way

[Odanan]

I see you didn't spend a dime on the game, so why don't you let us Founders to complain?

Clarification: Open Beta is still Beta. The game is not finished!

We can see this game growing in every patch. The game managed to make every mech not only beautiful but also useful - and that is a major success for PGI. New maps and mechs are coming, in every patch the weapons are re-balanced, many bugs are fixed... what more do you expect?

If you are so upset about the bugs and lack of content , why don't you return in a few months, after the Open Beta?

[AlienInvader]

I used to be a founder.

[Sa7aN]

Odanan, on 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I see you didn't spend a dime on the game, so why don't you let us Founders to complain?

Clarification: Open Beta is still Beta. The game is not finished!

We can see this game growing in every patch. The game managed to make every mech not only beautiful but also useful - and that is a major success for PGI. New maps and mechs are coming, in every patch the weapons are re-balanced, many bugs are fixed... what more do you expect?

If you are so upset about the bugs and lack of content , why don't you return in a few months, after the Open Beta?

if premium time is being used and there are no more resets its LIVE dont buy this beta only in name ********, open beta was the founders program

[Landsharkk]

Odanan, on 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I see you didn't spend a dime on the game, so why don't you let us Founders to complain?

Clarification: Open Beta is still Beta. The game is not finished!

We can see this game growing in every patch. The game managed to make every mech not only beautiful but also useful - and that is a major success for PGI. New maps and mechs are coming, in every patch the weapons are re-balanced, many bugs are fixed... what more do you expect?

If you are so upset about the bugs and lack of content , why don't you return in a few months, after the Open Beta?

AlienInvader, on 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I used to be a founder.

I use to be a founder too.

Also, next week anyone can play, founders time starts (if you choose), and PGI takes your money. In the eyes of the public, that IS launch.

Edited by Landsharkk, 26 October 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[DarkraiOfDoom]

AlienInvader, on 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I used to be a founder.

you used to be a founder
then i wanted to slap people upside the head with a cricket bat.

my only complaint: open beta wasnt soon enough =[
i'm a legendary founder which means my opinions more valid rite guy's 8D /sarcasm

[Landsharkk]

Nobody can dispute anything I've posted at the top. That's the scary part. It's all true!

[Genghis Black Death Khan]

I want my money back

[Sable Hawk]

I really only have two comments.. albeit a bit paradoxical.

1) Everything you have identified seem to be true and a reason to drive people away from the game. (particularly the unmentioned c-bill grint method).

2) This is a BETA, not a final product.

The problem of offering an open beta is that it is a two edged sword. While it is good to receive a trickle of funds while developing the game and being able to tweak the game with a wide variation of users; the risk is that players (wrongly expecting a finished product) will give negative reviews and making issues glaringly obvious. Considering that the internet has made sharing information extremely easy, it seems that the risk is quite large compared to the minimal reward.

I hope they fix some of the issues sooner than later, because while I do like playing the game it would be nice for it to work.

[Landsharkk]

Sable Hawk, on 26 October 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

I really only have two comments.. albeit a bit paradoxical.

1) Everything you have identified seem to be true and a reason to drive people away from the game. (particularly the unmentioned c-bill grint method).

2) This is a BETA, not a final product.

The problem of offering an open beta is that it is a two edged sword. While it is good to receive a trickle of funds while developing the game and being able to tweak the game with a wide variation of users; the risk is that players (wrongly expecting a finished product) will give negative reviews and making issues glaringly obvious. Considering that the internet has made sharing information extremely easy, it seems that the risk is quite large compared to the minimal reward.

I hope they fix some of the issues sooner than later, because while I do like playing the game it would be nice for it to work.

Actually I completely agree with your post. The first impression will set the tone of the success of MWO (and possible the success of a next Mechwarrior game). Unfortunately for PGI, their track-record of 'fixing' stuff quick in patches is nowhere to be seen. Every patch introduces massive new bugs, often time game breaking bugs. Do they need to patch this game like crazy after next week? Yep! Is there such thing as a miracle patch that this game needs? Nope. If they aren't amazingly quick, the next week will be the beginning of the end of MWO in a very quick way.

[Doomaflatchi]

...you really have no idea what a game looks like partway through its production cycle, do you?

I make games for a living, so let me clue you in - for still being three months away from their gold build (launch), this game looks and feels GREAT. It's WAY more polished than it needs to be at this point, and they've almost certainly pulled resources away from polishing other areas of the game that could have been done sooner in order to fix gameplay problems and to keep the game in a playable state for YOU to continue to enjoy. If you want to play a finished product the first time you sit down and launch the title, wait until it launches. They've done a great service to their community by allowing us to play the game early, and by allowing our feedback to so drastically shape and affect the development of this game.

And before you gripe about them "taking your money," please remember a few things: 1) The game is free, and you gave them your money, 2) The things that you're spending real money on will still be there when the game launches in a 'complete' state, and 3) A non-FTP title would charge you $60 just for the right to see the game before you could decide whether you like it or not.

As a final point, I've seen a lot of people complaining about the removal of the Centurion AH - please stop. We are not entitled to be able to always and forever continue to use everything that ever appears in the game when the game isn't even finished yet. Sometimes, things need to be cut. Sometimes, the design document changes. Quite on the contrary, I am incredibly pleased that the AH existed in the first place, since it game them phenomenal amounts of data regarding how people would play a Mech like that, allowing them to release their first Hero Mech with an unprecedented amount of balance data and testing already behind it precisely so that it didn't become "LOL, I roflstomp PUGs with my OP cash Mech!" And if you're upset about that particular variant being unavailable to non-paying customers, I encourage you to compare this against the design model Korean developers use on their FTP titles - as a way to generate the necessary funding for a game, this is remarkably kind and gratuitous towards the player base. What they've done is in NO way "money grubbing." Trust me, you don't get into this job for the money - if cash rained from the heavens every time we put our hard work and long hours into a project that we loved just so we could share it with people, we would. We ALL would, every day.

It is OKAY for you to not like the game; I mean that. It's FINE. But please don't berate them as a company and as hard-working people because "This could be easily solved if you did X, Y, and Z!" No. It couldn't. Nothing in game development is easy, and no 'fix' is ever 'simple'. This stuff is HARD WORK, and these devs have proven themselves, time and time again, to be both AMAZING at their jobs and LOVING towards the community. Please treat them with the respect that their labor of love deserves.

[Verminaard]

I support the game fully, but even I feel this is a bad idea. I hope it succeeds, but the OP is right, these are all issues, any tester will admit it.

They risk lossing all their hype and many new members seeing such a basic/buggy/unbalanced product. I hope people take this the right way and see it for the amazing game it is.

This "Open beta" is really more of a full release, as it's "always in developement" being Free to Play. I hope they quickly get more content out because people start judging heavyily once a game hits open beta.

I hope you know what your doing PGI! I'll support you, i am however a voice of reason, but I'm saying this to hope you realize the possiable downside you face.

Edited by Verminaard, 26 October 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Ram71]

i think you guys either have no idea what a beta is or you are being stupid. read the post and understand that this isn't about the money it's about the fact that over 50% of the people in this beta think that because they paid money this is a finished game and so all they do is ***** about how bad it is. this last patch has fixed quite a few little problems but it also makes it easier to present to the public.

SO WHAT IF IT'S NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT!!!!!

the new people playing will mean better chance of finding the real problems still in the game instead of whinning about problems that are already being fixed.

Grow up or get out of the game.

[Fear Radick]

I think they have done a very fair job of pumping out fixes, and content since I have been in the beta. Is there a lot of things missing, or in need of repair? Yes, of course there are. I have paid $50 to $60 for full release retail games that have had as many or even more bugs and content issues as MWO.

Yes, putting out open beta now may cause them to lose some of the audience, but to be honest, a lot of those people would likely be lost quickly due to their critical view point of the game in any case. There will also be a lot of these people who try the game now, and perhaps don't like it, stop playing but return later on to see how the game has evolved during their absense. There will be as many players who like me, can find fun and enjoyment in the current build and will continue to play onwards into the future.

Like was said in the announcement, they could wait for a year until every bit of content, and every fix is in and the game is near perfect. But where does that leave the current testers? Testing non stop for all this time with no permanent reward? I don't think so.

Every step you take in the development of any product has risk associated with it.

[Landsharkk]

Doomaflatchi, on 26 October 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

...you really have no idea what a game looks like partway through its production cycle, do you?

I make games for a living, so let me clue you in - for still being three months away from their gold build (launch), this game looks and feels GREAT. It's WAY more polished than it needs to be at this point, and they've almost certainly pulled resources away from polishing other areas of the game that could have been done sooner in order to fix gameplay problems and to keep the game in a playable state for YOU to continue to enjoy. If you want to play a finished product the first time you sit down and launch the title, wait until it launches. They've done a great service to their community by allowing us to play the game early, and by allowing our feedback to so drastically shape and affect the development of this game.

And before you gripe about them "taking your money," please remember a few things: 1) The game is free, and you gave them your money, 2) The things that you're spending real money on will still be there when the game launches in a 'complete' state, and 3) A non-FTP title would charge you $60 just for the right to see the game before you could decide whether you like it or not.

As a final point, I've seen a lot of people complaining about the removal of the Centurion AH - please stop. We are not entitled to be able to always and forever continue to use everything that ever appears in the game when the game isn't even finished yet. Sometimes, things need to be cut. Sometimes, the design document changes. Quite on the contrary, I am incredibly pleased that the AH existed in the first place, since it game them phenomenal amounts of data regarding how people would play a Mech like that, allowing them to release their first Hero Mech with an unprecedented amount of balance data and testing already behind it precisely so that it didn't become "LOL, I roflstomp PUGs with my OP cash Mech!" And if you're upset about that particular variant being unavailable to non-paying customers, I encourage you to compare this against the design model Korean developers use on their FTP titles - as a way to generate the necessary funding for a game, this is remarkably kind and gratuitous towards the player base. What they've done is in NO way "money grubbing." Trust me, you don't get into this job for the money - if cash rained from the heavens every time we put our hard work and long hours into a project that we loved just so we could share it with people, we would. We ALL would, every day.

It is OKAY for you to not like the game; I mean that. It's FINE. But please don't berate them as a company and as hard-working people because "This could be easily solved if you did X, Y, and Z!" No. It couldn't. Nothing in game development is easy, and no 'fix' is ever 'simple'. This stuff is HARD WORK, and these devs have proven themselves, time and time again, to be both AMAZING at their jobs and LOVING towards the community. Please treat them with the respect that their labor of love deserves.

What games have you worked on?

Let me tell you about something here, I have personally worked on hundreds of releases to support industry leading games and game services. Ever heard of Xbox 360? Yeah, I was the one who use to physically release builds and updates to the Xbox Live service. Not just a few, but hundreds (actually closer to about 1,000). That's how many 'release cycles' I've been involved with in the game industry. I've worked hand-in-hand with developers, project managers, and support teams to bring game industry related services and games to the public.

I REALLY DO know a thing or two about product release cycles.

[Flagrant]

Let's get the last wipe out of the way asap. Come on open beta!

[Ram71]

AlienInvader, on 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I used to be a founder.

Landsharkk, on 26 October 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Think the game is ready for release to the public and for PGI to start taking your money?

Here's what to expect:


-No item descriptions/stats
-no in-game tutorial,only 1 out of game tutorial thats only 10 min long
-only 4 maps, buggy maps
-few mech chassis(variants are nice but still basically the same mech)
-PGI removes mechs/variants with no warning (Where did the Centurion CN9-AH go? - replaced with a real money mech)
-horrible mech lab implementation(tab system made it worse), buggy mech lab
-netcode fails to properly register fast moving objects(now with no collisions)
-questionable pilot xp system(should be options against grinding different variants of what is essentially still the same mech)
-unbalanced weapons
-few weapons/systems(narc?beagle?)
-DHS not working as originally intended
-Horrible match-up system
-Only one game mode (8 vs 8 team deathmatch/capture the base hybrid - PGI admitted this was their 'test' game mode)
-Economy is unbalanced(spend money on MC to buy mechs that you cannot afford to repair)
-crashes to desktop
-random fps drops
-no in-game computer voice(all systems nominal, heat levels critical, outside mission parameters, etc.)
-no music
-not fully implemented in game voice chat system(havent tried this so not 100% sure on this)
-no chat room, no ability to communicate post-match
-no fix to prevent players from quickly grinding for c-bills using a method that I am not even allowed to discuss on the forums(lets just say that its very detrimental to others enjoyment of gameplay)


I think PGI needs to do some full disclosure here. This game is not ready for open beta/release to the public/giving them your money.

Your thoughts?

AlienInvader, on 26 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

I used to be a founder.

ah it's hard to say "i used to" about so many things that matter.

try saying "i used to" in these situations:

live
breathe
be a man/woman
be able to say i was a founder
have my opinion matter
not whine about everything

[Vandril]

Maps are fairly easy for them to implement. For a closed beta there is little need. Look at "Awesome" games that are released like Black Ops for instance, how many maps there?

Unbalanced weapons - name a MMO that has balance. There are few weapons that are 'OP' and if you play smart you can get around them. AKA... use the Terrain to get at missile boats. Focus fire with your team... and more. And if you have bad aim, that is not the game's fault.

Throughout all the patches, I've had very few glitches with the maps. I hear complaints but rarely anything that isn't fixed quickly if it's common and repeatable.

I agree with the Mech Lab - the new view kind of sucks, but I understand why they did it. New UIs happen in every MMO and change throughout the life of the MMO. Leave constructive feedback and it'll change.

DHS appeared to be working fine and as intended in the several hours of play I had. One thing is the environmental effects on the maps look like they have MUCH greater effect.

If there is this abusive method for grinding, you are doing a disservice by NOT discussing it.

There's a lot of fluff (Music, descriptions, etc) that are necessary at retail but in a CLOSED beta are superfluous. You are assuming those are ready not for the open beta patch…

Beyond that, premium time starting during the Open Beta and it’s gone at launch is a mistake. One it gives beta players (specifically Founders) a considerable advantage over new players at launch. Sorry but that would suck for new players and drive people away. Getting stomped by superiorly armed people right at the start is not good for business.

I still believe that the Open Beta should be delayed for some additional features – such as working out the additional game modes, but whatever. There are obvious many reasons why they are moving forward, validity depends on the context. Hopefully PGI can crank out the necessary content by launch and have it well tested.