265 replies to this topic

[Elder St00bert]

You all do understand that none of this really happened, right? It's a game.

Don't know if you knew that... Just checkin'

[empath]

@Lyon:

Actually, go take a lengthly trawl through Google's archives of <rec.games.mecha>; I'll admit I've been saying "GET OFF MY LAWN" a lot in the past few months, here...

...but I've also been saying the exact same thing to the previous few generations of infantile 12-year-olds with 'UberHero mentality' problems over there, too.

...since 1997.


Yeah, that's right; I've been throwing a bucket of Water of Perspective™ on all the "doodz, checkit out - I've got an uber-powerful army of fifty regiments of Clan Omnis loaded onto a fleet of WarShips bigger than the SLDF evar had, so all youze better be payin' me mad respects"-first posts for the past fifteen years.

...and yeah, it's made me a little cranky.



(for the record, it appears I've earned my 'geezer' status; my wife got me a new cane for my birthday last month, damn arthritis)

Edited by empath, 06 April 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[Lyon]

Empath, bro, I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm just trying to be respectable around the Entitled Generation posters in this thread.

[Tannhauser Gate]

I think our personal destinies in game should evolve as we win and lose our own battles but the larger stage and setting should be according to Lore. Lore and the classic major events should be the back ground for our battles while outcome of each battle determines only our personal or faction's near future. The dates dont have to line up and Im fine with the game setting evolving in chapters where each one represents a major era. I dont want to see the universe "reset" each time the game setting moves into a different chapter.. just moving in one arrow of time through chapters derived from the classic time line. In leaps where needed to skip years of doldrums. I cant image MWO following the lore timeline day by day.

Rough outline:

Chapter I. Ashes of the Succession Wars (MWO launches. Setting is late 4th Succession and technology begins to re emerge after Helm)
Chapter II. The Sphere Divided (countless border wars erupt as the Houses begin a new aggressive conquest for territory)
Chapter III. Scions of Kerensky (setting major events around the initial clan invasion)
Chapter IV. The Sphere United (Houses uniting against common foe)
Chapter V. Echos of Terra (Battles rage as the Crusader factions ravage their way through the Sphere on their way to their Eden)
etc...

Each one maybe lasting around 6 months. Something like this as our stage would give our wars context in the timeline.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 06 April 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[empath]

Lyon, on 06 April 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Empath, bro, I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm just trying to be respectable around the Entitled Generation posters in this thread.

Oh! Yeah, I know that, and I *DO* like the conciliatory and moderate tone you took with your post.

...I'm just giving some perspective as to WHY I'm being so grouchy.

(er, and while we talk here, could you take a step to your left? You're standing on a patch of grass that's still trying to recover from a nasty cinch bug infestation, and the fresh seed is a *little* fragile right now. ;^) )

[Elder St00bert]

If there is a strict "Lore or Nothing" rule, then why bother piloting a mech in this game? Since it doesn't take place after "The winds of change started blowing in from Terra", it might as well be a MW movie (which I have been lobbying for since MW3). So for it to be a viable and sustainable game, some stuff has got to be flexible.

And no one answered my first question; please tell me you know this isn't real.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

@Elder - We are individuals, or small merc corps etc. We have an according effect, you can choose whatever personal and unit name you like - it doesn't mean you can affect the overal universe dynamics. I can't see why this should affect whether you play the game or not.
Does this mean you won't play WoT because we know what the ressult of the war was?

[bebopper]

Suskis, on 01 April 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

to me, Lore means NOTHNIG simply because I played a board game. All I needed was 3025 technical readout and base rules. When the Clan arrived, there was a lot of new stuff to play on, so I gave it a try and liked it (even if that meant the death of good old mechs that I loved so much. nobody wants to play with Level 1 tech as soon as Level 2 appears).
But whatever happened lorewise, I don't even know it. Novels, cartoons, magazines, everything not related to board gameplay never interested me at all.
Also, I think that the best MW MMORPG game should give the players the wole galaxy to play in, freely. If we want Hespherus II we go there and try to take it, even if lore says it didn't happen. I'd love to see a map of the galaxy changing day after day, following the battle fought by players and players alone.
I know I am the minority here, but hell NO, lore means nothing to me.

+2
Lets see the constant moving battle lines decided by players

[DeformedSlowest]

Tadakuma, on 01 April 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

I suspect that I'm one of the people that this is being aimed at.

I think that there is enough vagueness in the canon that MW:O can exist and have space for the players to have an impact. Part of the genius of FASA was that they realised that the define everything left the players out of the equation. So when I talk about canon I talk about stuff like technology and major events, Since these define the universe I see no reason why the shouldn't be set in stone.

If you think about how much of the clan invasion is set in stone, we know approximately what battles took place and the general outcome. But we don't know what a happened alpha company 2nd battalion of the 3rd Skye Rangers conducted a deep recon raid into Jade Falcon during July and August in 3051 or any number of battles that took place during that year.

The point is that it's not an either or equation. It's not canon or player choice, with careful writing both can exist and the game will be better for it.

A compromise that I believe is acceptable. Even though the story and events are "scripted" to which MWO will follow, the fine details are not and I think that's where we can "fudge" it out. I forgot who suggested it, but why not use that fudge point to "fill in the blanks" as to the exact detail what happened in the aftermath with player interaction in the universe? Makes sense to me. In this way you are following canon but having player's actions in the universe actually affect it in some way or another.

[Felbombling]

Elder St00bert, on 06 April 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Since it doesn't take place after "The winds of change started blowing in from Terra", it might as well be a MW movie (which I have been lobbying for since MW3).

Oh, I can see it now... the Mechwarrior movie goes into production and the message boards are swamped with people yelling crazy sh!t at each other.

"That's not canon!"
"So lame... give the Victor more pulse lasers!"
"No no no... if the year is 3021 that Mech doesn't even exist. Michael Bay is a complete moron!!!"

[3Xtr3m3]

A few thoughts:

1. This is a game. Someone wanted to know if we know this is a game. Yes, we know it is only a game.

2. Anything that happens in this game will NEVER affect Canon, anyone who wants it to be otherwise needs to understand the limits of the legal agreements between PGI and whoever has Copyrights to The Battletech Universe.

3. The Lore will never be the Law in this game. It can not be. If it were the law you would sign on to take a planet, and then have to sit at your puter for the many months needed to TRAVEL to that planet, and then the weeks needed to burn insystem to LAND on that planet, followed by weeks of fighting to take and hold that planet. That sounds awefully boring.

3a. And according to Lore, if you die you have to start all over again. I will pass on that game.

4. Play the game in front of you, not the game in your mind. This game is not that game.

[Thorn Hallis]

El Loco, on 04 April 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I was just thinking about the exact same thing. If I was in charge of the Clans, and I had intel on the IS (though outdated), I would approach Terra from the CC and FWL, because they are the supposedly weakest of the Big 5. See how the IS would have handled the second part of the invasion when many of the industrial complexes used for the production of the new tech and 'Mechs were already under the enemy's control.

You wouldn't be in charge for long after presenting this plan to the grand council. Strategy might not be a primer for clan warriors, but even they can see the foolishness of overstretching an allready overstreteched supply line.

[Sam Slade]

One major error the OP made; this game IS NOT aimed mainly at the "rabid fans". Mechwarrior games are old... their image as the uber-robots isn't dominant anymore. For a significant section of the future player base these clunky non-Manga mechs will be a change, something new and different.

So Lore... forget it. It is a bunch of blocks that will be great to shake up and rebuild a game universe with; like fiction-lego. That's what the aforementioned Water of Perspective should be telling you.

[Volthorne]

LakeDaemon, on 06 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

I think our personal destinies in game should evolve as we win and lose our own battles but the larger stage and setting should be according to Lore. Lore and the classic major events should be the back ground for our battles while outcome of each battle determines only our personal or faction's near future. The dates dont have to line up and Im fine with the game setting evolving in chapters where each one represents a major era. I dont want to see the universe "reset" each time the game setting moves into a different chapter.. just moving in one arrow of time through chapters derived from the classic time line. In leaps where needed to skip years of doldrums. I cant image MWO following the lore timeline day by day.

Rough outline:

Chapter I. Ashes of the Succession Wars (MWO launches. Setting is late 4th Succession and technology begins to re emerge after Helm)
Chapter II. The Sphere Divided (countless border wars erupt as the Houses begin a new aggressive conquest for territory)
Chapter III. Scions of Kerensky (setting major events around the initial clan invasion)
Chapter IV. The Sphere United (Houses uniting against common foe)
Chapter V. Echos of Terra (Battles rage as the Crusader factions ravage their way through the Sphere on their way to their Eden)
etc...

Each one maybe lasting around 6 months. Something like this as our stage would give our wars context in the timeline.

Oh, f*** no, you did NOT just suggest limited-time campaign chapters. You realize that time-limited campaign chapters are the WORST possible thing you can do to an MMO? Number of reasons:
1) Sweet loot from campaign sections becomes unavailable after they finish (unbalanced distribution of fire power).
2) Newbies get jump-started to current campaign tech level, meaning you'd have pissed off vets because they had to WORK for their gear, and the same stuff just got handed out like candy to the new guy (this is NEVER acceptable in ANY circle of society).
3) Said chapters are often marketed as DLC/expansions, because f*** the F2P'ers, they can sit alone and forgotten in their lowest tier level 1 tech.

[Aegis Kleais]

Damocles, on 06 April 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Tell me why the lore SHOULD BE IGNORED.

Or does everyone want to be Victor Phelan Steiner Davion Kell

It shouldn't be IGNORED, but it shouldn't be observed to the letter. The game is not BattleTech Online (MechWarrior Tactics looks like it's making a closer to TT simulation). BT Lore and rules should be used as a starting place for what MWO have use, and then adjustments must be made in order to ensure features transpose over and are represented well enough. Those things which do not should be scrapped.

Edited by Aegis Kleaisâ„¢, 07 April 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Max Grayson]

woodstock, on 01 April 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Too much hangs on the lore for us to mess with it. Mech releases, tech, political manoeuvring.

Also I don't want corps growing to the point where they eclipse the great houses. Ala BOB in EvE.

Finally I don't want the devs to have to crowbar changes in to drag the timeline back on track... or do world resets.

So I am more than happy for the world to stay on target. Lore should be the law.

For us to play out our game in the grey areas between and around the bright and shiny major events.

I appreciate what you are saying here, but the reality of following lore to the letter is disaster in my opinion. Hear me out:

What if:

A Merc guild or faction works hard and "takes over" multiple planets and according to the lore date a different facation or different merc unit is suppose to take over XYZ planet on x day. Imagine how those players will feel about spending all the time and c-bills to win the planet only to have it given back to xyz faction or unit because the calender says so.

HOWEVER, i wonder how PGI will work this on the dates the clan makes an apperence




Why make this game an MMO with player generated RvR outcomes at all if the game is striclty going by the events that take place in a fictionlized story? Might as well just make this a linear calender game with players on each side of the battle----and enjoy your extreme down time between battles if the in game calender is one day in real time

Edited by Max Grayson, 07 April 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Paladin1]

CCC_Dober, on 04 April 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

The lore is a very good source of inspiration, but it was derived from/translated to a different game back in the days.
Back then you could command whole armies, even factions in a turn based game with a couple friends and dice. The level of immersion and control was completely different compared to what we have today. It's like comparing chess and Call of Duty, it's that much of a difference.

Sorry, but you're incorrect here. While Battletech is a different game, it's only different because of the media format, not the game focus. The original game was designed for Lance on Lance battles, which is similar to the size that MWO is looking to be. Furthermore, while there was a game (The Succession Wars) that allowed you to command an entire Faction, that's not the case for Battletech.

There's actually no reason to stray from the canon timeline. MWO is looking to be scaled for minor conflicts, while the canon timeline only really touches on major points for the most part. While there are exceptions, they are just that; the exception and not the rule.

[Paladin1]

Max Grayson, on 07 April 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

What if:

A Merc guild or faction works hard and "takes over" multiple planets and according to the lore date a different facation or different merc unit is suppose to take over XYZ planet on x day. Imagine how those players will feel about spending all the time and c-bills to win the planet only to have it given back to xyz faction or unit because the calender says so.

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, who says the planet would be just given to that other faction? The timeline from the end of the War of 3039 to the beginning of the Clan Invasion shows that the borders are actually static during this time, so there wouldn't be a case where you'd work to take a world just to have it taken from you. Sure, there are raids and counter-raids during this time but there aren't any canon events where a Successor State world changed hands until 3050 and that was due to the Clan Invasion.

[rollermint]

The major events and plots should be according to the lore.

Us players are to fill in the hundreds of battles and skirmishes that happened in the untold hundreds of other worlds.

I understand the charm of having players influence events or rewriting history but we are playing a Battletech game, not some generic robot stomping online game. Adherence to major events is a must. But whos to say we can't make our mark in other events? As stated, there are hundreds of worlds in the BT universe, most of them aren't featured in the main canon, at all. There are a lot of room for PGI to play with to offer to us players...

[Gunslinger2]

You folks worry too much, just gimmie my giant robot killin machine and let me go.
If you want to restrict what weapons and chassis i can use at first, tell me what year it is, drop a clan star on my unsuspecting *** etc. etc. then cool beans, have at ye!

Im fully in with the chew bubblegum and blow stuff up crowd. After all, if i wanted to play TT then thats what i'd be doing, rather than waiting anxiously for the next phase of the game i dearly love playing.

Guns