1890 replies to this topic

[octatonic]

I think the splat cat group happened mostly because no one in WoL has actually paid attention to what's going on in the game since February.

[IceCase88]

fil5000, on 19 May 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

People grouping up and running the same build is intended to maximise their fun, not diminish the fun of others. Running a bunch of SRM boats when SRMs are knackered couldn't even be called "cheese".

SRMs are not that knackered and when grouped together they are still devastating. Especially when you have 5-6 builds of them. I am sure I will run across a 6 ER PPC Stalker group soon. Whether it is the case or not, the perception is the Goons "maximize" their "fun" at the expense of other peoples' experience which creates a negative impact on a game it seems. Not to mention ill-will towards the group. It seems this has occurred and is occurring in more than one game. Where there is smoke there usually is fire. Might want to open a Public Relations Department. Maybe you can be in-charge of it.

[Halfinax]

IceCase88, on 19 May 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

SRMs are not that knackered and when grouped together they are still devastating. Especially when you have 5-6 builds of them. I am sure I will run across a 6 ER PPC Stalker group soon. Whether it is the case or not, the perception is the Goons "maximize" their "fun" at the expense of other peoples' experience which creates a negative impact on a game it seems. Not to mention ill-will towards the group. It seems this has occurred and is occurring in more than one game. Where there is smoke there usually is fire. Might want to open a Public Relations Department. Maybe you can be in-charge of it.

What is stopping you from participating in this same activity? Is this not the very nature of competitive games? Winning = more fun than not winning? By that logic you are out to have fun by ruining others' fun as well.

Edited by Halfinax, 19 May 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[IceCase88]

Halfinax, on 19 May 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

What is stopping you from participating in this same activity? Is this not the very nature of competitive games? Winning = more fun than not winning? By that logic you are out to have fun by ruining others' fun as well.

I work nights and only PUG because I would wake up my family. I enter matches with my own builds and even if I ran in a group i would bring my own build. Winning does not necessarily ruin other peoples' fun. A thrilling or competitive lose is more entertaining than an 8-0 or 8-1 victory. It is not all about results... it is about entertainment. Ultimately, most people prefer an ethical competition over winning at any cost. You will not get any QQing from me... just helpful advice. I do not expect or care if I win or lose a match because I will just play another match with different players in the next one.

[fil5000]

Your definition of "ethical" is stretching the term somewhat. Players grouping up and picking builds that complement each other is not "unethical" in any sense. And while you think it's not all about results, the prevalence of PPCs and poptart builds suggests to a lot of people it IS all about results.

[Ter Ushaka]

Ethics?
In my Internet Gudamn game?

[Blue Footed Booby]

IceCase88, on 19 May 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

I work nights and only PUG because I would wake up my family. I enter matches with my own builds and even if I ran in a group i would bring my own build. Winning does not necessarily ruin other peoples' fun. A thrilling or competitive lose is more entertaining than an 8-0 or 8-1 victory. It is not all about results... it is about entertainment. Ultimately, most people prefer an ethical competition over winning at any cost. You will not get any QQing from me... just helpful advice. I do not expect or care if I win or lose a match because I will just play another match with different players in the next one.

Being serious for a minute here:

First off, I understand you aren't calling for goons to be brought up before the Hague, but I think your word choice is a little melodramatic. I don't think it makes sense to talk about ethics in an online computer game with literally nothing on the line. We're not playing for money, we're not representing our home city/state/country, and we certainly aren't violating any in-game rules. The absolute worst it could be is a little cheeky.

More importantly, though, what is your point? What is it that goons should do or not do? Not coordinate builds? Not all play the same build? I'm not trying to be snarky or slam-dunk you in front of my goon buddies; I genuinely don't understand what you're getting at. It sounds like you're unhappy because goons play in a way you can't beat given the constraints placed upon your play by real life, but you post coherently enough that I'm sure you can see that's not goons' fault or responsibility. You've chosen your priorities (correctly, I think) and now you lie in the bed you've made....so why post about it?

[IceCase88]

My point is not about me at all. I take my lumps and move on. My point is there is a persistent perception of the behavior of Goons in various different games. I am not Buddah's friend but dismissing his statements like it is a vendetta against Goons is really trying to deflect from the perception. The perception of your group seems to be one of ill-mannered people whose only real purpose is to gain enjoyment by destroying the fun of others by any means necessary and in an unsavory manner. It may only be a small minority of your players but it is enough to create a bad perception. Maybe that is the angle you guys are going for. If not then there might be something the leaders need to do to rein the members in and change the perception.

[fil5000]

It's quite easy to dismiss Buddhas statements as he chose not to back them up with any facts or evidence. This seems to be true of most critics who point at an example of a thing that happened to a guy they knew once, and it's almost invariably in Eve. If you want to talk about fun ruiniers, how about people that open fire on teammates for going "squawk"? That seems pretty over the top to me.

[IceCase88]

My motivation is to help maintain as fun a game as possible for all players and not let it devolve into a few people having fun at the expense of others. That would ultimately kill the player base and then the game.

[Blue Footed Booby]

IceCase88, on 20 May 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

My point is not about me at all. I take my lumps and move on. My point is there is a persistent perception of the behavior of Goons in various different games. I am not Buddah's friend but dismissing his statements like it is a vendetta against Goons is really trying to deflect from the perception. The perception of your group seems to be one of ill-mannered people whose only real purpose is to gain enjoyment by destroying the fun of others by any means necessary and in an unsavory manner. It may only be a small minority of your players but it is enough to create a bad perception. Maybe that is the angle you guys are going for. If not then there might be something the leaders need to do to rein the members in and change the perception.

There are people whose perception is that the goons didn't exist before Eve. There are people whose perception is that the world is secretly run by an alliance between the lizard people and the global Jewish conspiracy. It's not our responsibility to address every misperception.

The problem here is that you can't fight baseless claims because you can't prove a negative. If someone says we're griefers or child molestors or whatever else the burden of proof is on them to back that assertion up.

What you're doing with this post is totally avoiding stating whether you yourself believe goons are ill-mannered trolls, while claiming to just be asking questions for the sake of the community on behalf of someone who does. This smells very, very strongly of arguing in bad faith. In fact, there's a widely used term for exactly this form of argument: concern trolling.

[moderatepudding]

hi i have a question. people keep calling this subforum k-town and i was wondering if the name had anything to with with corea, home of juche couture? thank's in advance

[moderatepudding]

crossdoubleposting like hECK

Quote

Also I did this last night, it's super boring because the streamer doesn't spectate anyone for like 5 minutes after dying, and also plays terrible music, and also I get killed by a pair of jenners because I run out of ammo and Highlanders are literally worse for fighting lights than the Atlas(but still better than the Stalker). Did I Do A Good

http://www.twitch.tv...834459?t=62m55s

e: also also you have to listen to their terrible opinions and boring commentary

Edited by moderatepudding, 20 May 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[IceCase88]

You can have ethics in online gaming. Since there are no referees in matches the companies are asking people to be ethical and not cheat or use exploits. There are no referees or anti-cheat software so essentially you have to have an ethical community. Exploits are found all the time and the only way to get caught is by someone observing it, taking a screen shot, and reporting it which does not happen often. How do you tell if someone is hacking or aimbotting? You really cannot. You can only have suspicion, report it, and hope you were correct. Ethical behavior would be find and exploit then reporting it but in all honesty... how often does that happen before it is reported. Not often. MechaShiva is an exploit because jumping on a mech's head should damage it but it wasn't so people were doing. Unethical. Macros while accepted by PGI because how can they really stop them would be considered a bit unethical.

[Halfinax]

IceCase88, on 20 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

You can have ethics in online gaming. Since there are no referees in matches the companies are asking people to be ethical and not cheat or use exploits. There are no referees or anti-cheat software so essentially you have to have an ethical community. Exploits are found all the time and the only way to get caught is by someone observing it, taking a screen shot, and reporting it which does not happen often. How do you tell if someone is hacking or aimbotting? You really cannot. You can only have suspicion, report it, and hope you were correct. Ethical behavior would be find and exploit then reporting it but in all honesty... how often does that happen before it is reported. Not often. MechaShiva is an exploit because jumping on a mech's head should damage it but it wasn't so people were doing. Unethical. Macros while accepted by PGI because how can they really stop them would be considered a bit unethical.

Now you are trying to equate grouping together and using SRM boat Catapults to cheating? I know now you are going to attempt to say something along the lines of "I never said that," but within the context of this conversation that has been going on that is the implication. Now that is unethical and slanderous.

[Blue Footed Booby]

IceCase88, on 20 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

You can have ethics in online gaming. Since there are no referees in matches the companies are asking people to be ethical and not cheat or use exploits. There are no referees or anti-cheat software so essentially you have to have an ethical community. Exploits are found all the time and the only way to get caught is by someone observing it, taking a screen shot, and reporting it which does not happen often. How do you tell if someone is hacking or aimbotting? You really cannot. You can only have suspicion, report it, and hope you were correct. Ethical behavior would be find and exploit then reporting it but in all honesty... how often does that happen before it is reported. Not often. MechaShiva is an exploit because jumping on a mech's head should damage it but it wasn't so people were doing. Unethical. Macros while accepted by PGI because how can they really stop them would be considered a bit unethical.

I'll ask again: What are you getting at? What is your point? What is the connection between all the random things mentioned in this post and dropping with all splatcats?

If those feel like unfair questions, I'd be happy if you just get less abstract. Who do you think is aimbotting or otherwise exploiting?

[moderatepudding]

IceCase88, on 20 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

You can have ethics in online gaming. Since there are no referees in matches the companies are asking people to be ethical and not cheat or use exploits. There are no referees or anti-cheat software so essentially you have to have an ethical community. Exploits are found all the time and the only way to get caught is by someone observing it, taking a screen shot, and reporting it which does not happen often. How do you tell if someone is hacking or aimbotting? You really cannot. You can only have suspicion, report it, and hope you were correct. Ethical behavior would be find and exploit then reporting it but in all honesty... how often does that happen before it is reported. Not often. MechaShiva is an exploit because jumping on a mech's head should damage it but it wasn't so people were doing. Unethical. Macros while accepted by PGI because how can they really stop them would be considered a bit unethical.

u want 2 kno something rly unethical?

you

are

postig

n

[IceCase88]

Hey... I get it... You guys are the victim of some awful smear campaign and victims of circumstances. Totally misunderstood and filled with teen angst. I get it. Circle the wagons and defend your members even though I am sure none of them have done any wrong ever. I get it. Everyone else is to blame through no fault of your own. Again... I get it.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWW]

As far as I know, no one in WoL has cheated according to the CoC/ToS/whatever. If you do see instances of cheating (goon or otherwise,) I would advise keeping track of when the game was and try to take video/Screenshot evidence.

Thus far you've just been saying "Why are you guys a buncha unethical ********? HEY! I'm JUST ASKING QUESTIONS!"

We play the game and the metagame well. People hate that **** and moan about it endlessly because this is literally the worst community I've ever seen (pre and post "goon invasion")

[moderatepudding]

idk one time someone accused me of maphacking b/c i killed them by shooting them through the ship on frozen city back when u could do that so i think that means that all goons hack right??????????????????????????????????????????

Edited by moderatepudding, 20 May 2013 - 07:54 PM.