68 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

Symetrically armed mechs such as Catapult, Jagermech and Jenner need not apply.

But many mechs in the BattleTech universe have a (direct) weapon bias in favour of the right arm/torso.
The Centurion, Dragon, Panther, Highlander, Vindicator, Victor, etc all have their favoured autocannon/PPC in the right arm
The Hunchback, Atlas, Cyclops, Orion all have favoured autocannons in the right torso.
The Zeus is only Mech that comes to mind that might favour its left arm (PPC or AC5)

So what about the people who (maybe left-handed and) favour weapons to the left portion of their mech?
Specifically I am wondering about mirrored-configuration mechs (weapons on the opposite-side of the canon mechs); ie AC10 on the LA of the Centurion, AC20 on the LT of the Hunchback, etc.
Should it be allowed?
Should it be allowed as a variant?
Should it be allowed from tinkering in the Mechlab?

Other notes:
It would make sense if you had a squad of Centurions (for example) for maximum (autocannon) coverage
to have right flank have AC on their right arm and on the left flank to have their Autocannons on the LA facing left (instead of the unarmed left-hand)

-in circle of death fighting (which WILL happen), weapon placement usually dictated which way the circling of the opponent was favoured; the argus, it tended to be CW so the RA faced right and for the Thanatos with LA ballistic hardpoint it tended to CCW. (well this was for me anyways)

[Oswin Aurelius]

I personally think that you shouldn't mess around with stuff like that. While it might seem like something small, who knows what impact it would have on the metagame? Add the fact that it'll take the Devs that much longer to put it in, when they could have been working on fine-tuning the game mechanics, and I can't see this every happening.

To the developers, if anything regarding 'mech-handedness is done, I hope you guys would consider changing some 'mech designs to the point where there were an (nearly) even number of 'mech that favored the left or right side. As it stands, if you always aim off to the right side of an enemy 'mech, chances are you're going to hit something juicy instead of a useless arm or torso.

[Cik]

honestly, i'd rather leave it up to the 'mechlab. make it relatively cheap to do and then there is no bother about creating an entirely different system just to do this one thing.

[SweetJackal]

Well, if you were to mirror a mech you would have to Mirror the whole thing.

And it would give tactical options. You could pair up with a buddy and hide most of your mech behind cover with just your weapons poking out and laying down fire. This would allow a stock and a mirrored mech to hit both sides.

[Oswin Aurelius]

I'm surprised at how such a simple idea can cause so many tactical ideas. Well thought, Yeach!

[Oswin Aurelius]

Bumping for discussion purposes. I'm very interested in what other people think about this, specifically pros and cons of being able to mirror your 'mechs. DISCUSS, DAMMIT!

[LordDeathStrike]

only humans are left handed, no other creature or life form is. mechs arent either.

for gameplay purposes if mechs have right or left side mounts, the maps are designed with them in mind for cover spots, adding the ability to invert designs means you have to remake all those maps to adjust for atlas with left side ac20 or hunchback with left shoulder or centurions with left arm gun right arm shield.

if youre left handed o well, no ones saying you cant play the game, we are just saying we arent going to bend the laws of the bt universe for you.

[SweetJackal]

Anything capable of thought can favor one side over another, please don't pull out science you can't back up.

And the concept of mirroring mechs is to be able to use more existing cover. There are mechs with weapons on both sides and the maps themselves aren't linear maps. They need to be designed in a more dynamic way as conflicts won't be happening from only one angle of attack.

So, how would things need to be adjusted in terms of map design, at all, to make room for Mirroring? Mirroring would give the option for one side favored mechs to team up witha mirrored partner and not be fighting for the same cover. Making more use of what is already there.

[El Loco]

I am left-handed, and I usually have a very strong sense of discrimination of left-handed people... but it never occured to me that in BT most asymmetrically armed 'Mechs were favouring the right side. Interesting.

As for the question at hand: Although mirroring could be a nice feature, it is not of importance for me. Actually, it would cause me to pause and wonder for a moment when I encountered such a 'Mech on the battlefield. Just as a goal keeper gets confused when facing a left footer. Anyways, I think mirroring of the 'Mechs could be easily done, the mirrored 'Mechs should be available as variants. My reasoning for this is simple: I am for only a limited amount of customisation, but changing the position of entire weapons is a major modification, enough to qualify for a new variant.

[Rattlehead NZ]

My cat always strikes out with her left paw so i don't how that logic works? Anyway...

Seriously though i do see a point to your question. I don't think to mirror the whole chassis really is viable, but switching a primary weapon mounted on a left arm to the right arm doesn't sound far fetched. Would add some interesting tactics to the game. As it stands a chassis that has an AC 20 on a right arm will always be predictible to it's location. Also if you end up in a circling battle (which is why they are mostly right handed) then you would want to circle to the right to allow to lead the turn with the AC20. If someone was able to change there AC20 to their left arm then they could force people to circle the opposite direction keeping away from their stock setup with their main weapon on their right arm.

Im not bothered either way....i may not be cheap but i am easy

[Archtus]

I'm a righty, and encourage the Mirror Spec idea. That said, I used to modify console controllers so that they would act southpaw for my friend. I also left a blatant mod on them so people[friends] would know that those are his SP controllers.

If it were done, I'd like to see, in the models name, an -M tacked on at the end denoting Mirrored.
EX: [color=#000000]

VND-1R-M for the Vindicator.

[/color]

[Ulric Kell]

As long as the Hardpoints allow it.

[Strum Wealh]

LordDeathStrike, on 02 April 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

only humans are left handed, no other creature or life form is. mechs arent either.

for gameplay purposes if mechs have right or left side mounts, the maps are designed with them in mind for cover spots, adding the ability to invert designs means you have to remake all those maps to adjust for atlas with left side ac20 or hunchback with left shoulder or centurions with left arm gun right arm shield.

if youre left handed o well, no ones saying you cant play the game, we are just saying we arent going to bend the laws of the bt universe for you.

Actually...

Quote

Laterality is the preference that most humans show for one side of their body over the other. Examples include left-handedness or left-footedness. It may also apply to other animals, or to plants.

-----

Laterality in animals is also called limb dominance. Most race tracks are run counter-clockwise, which favors right-side dominant (left leading) horses, as they take a longer stride with the right foreleg, which helps them turn to the left. Trainers of left eye dominant horses may put a blinder on the left eye to encourage the horse to turn the head slightly to the left and to take a longer step with the right foreleg just as right-side dominant horses do. Parrots tend to favor one foot when grasping objects (for example fruit when feeding). Some studies indicate that most parrots are left footed. Some types of mastodon indicate laterality through the fossil remains having differing tusk lengths.

----------

As far as BattleMech laterality goes... most 'Mechs are manufactured on automated assembly lines, and as such are standardized designs.
That being said, "FrankenMechs" ("BattleMechs that combine parts of different 'Mech designs; They may either have been constructed entirely out of spare parts, or otherwise have been modified beyond recognition with parts from other units.") are not unknown, so it isn't unthinkable that one could change the handedness of, say, a Centurion.
It wouldn't (and shouldn't?) be a "standard" variant, however, and would (and should?) require one to salvage a compatible set of arms and have the facilities and capital to perform the conversion.

Though, that gets into an Armored Core or Chromehounds level of customization... whether it is even possible would depend on how the MecLab is implemented, which we apparently learn about tomorrow.

[Sarriss]

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but if they make the Mechlab similar to the one found in MW3 which allowed complete customization, it may not matter, people can make 'left-handed' layouts or right and put whatever fits within the tonnage of their mech. I'm a lefty, but playing games for so long as made me not care about left or right biases.

[Dihm]

El Loco, on 03 April 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

I am left-handed, and I usually have a very strong sense of discrimination of left-handed people... but it never occured to me that in BT most asymmetrically armed 'Mechs were favouring the right side. Interesting.

I'm not sure how that would qualify as "discrimination".

It makes sense for Omnimechs, which we won't have for a long long time. IS mechs are not built to be modular. The nature of manufacturing and mass production makes these types of mirroring seem highly unlikely. You'd be paying an incredible premium for it, and the ability to use battlefield salvage to repair damage decreases. It is more logical and economical to have the population of mechs within a chassis type be as identical as possible, since it offers benefits to you during maintenance. But, this is all more for the "role-play" crowd I suppose.

If the mech lab can handle it, go for it I suppose. But where does it end? Should you be able to swap the SRM rack and the spotlight on the torsos of a Warhammer? What about swapping the cockpit location of the Atlas from the left eye to the right?

Edited by Dihm, 03 April 2012 - 05:35 AM.

[Dr Roshima]

Dihm, on 03 April 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

If the mech lab can handle it, go for it I suppose. But where does it end? Should you be able to swap the SRM rack and the spotlight on the torsos of a Warhammer? What about swapping the cockpit location of the Atlas from the left eye to the right?

why not? Mirrored mechs would make scouts more important. So you are able to know where the enemy has it weak points.
Like already said, most mechs have their strong weaponry on the right side and thats why EVERYONE would ALWAYS hit the right side first.

[Deaths Touch]

I'm going to take this in a little bit of different direction. I'm not going to decide whether or not mirrored 'Mechs are a good idea but rather ask you why would it matter? With the perspective that we will be getting while fighting in game, no one is going to be able to make a good shot from cover with one arm/side. They will need to expose their whole 'Mech to aim (I. thinking the weapon range focus will play a part in this) and hit were they intend to. So as to if it's a good idea, maybe ascetically, but practically it makes no difference.

[00dlez]

The concept of this thread makes my head hurt.

If you feel that the creators of BT were actively seeking to discriminate against left-handers and demand that you be able to switch the visual appearance of mechs to feel like you aren't a second class citizen, then you might be too naive for the internet.

[Deaths Touch]

00dlez, on 03 April 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

The concept of this thread makes my head hurt.

If you feel that the creators of BT were actively seeking to discriminate against left-handers and demand that you be able to switch the visual appearance of mechs to feel like you aren't a second class citizen, then you might be too naive for the internet.

While the question of left-handedness had come up, I think the overall idea was to take advantage of cover more effectively.

[Hangfire]

I am lefthanded,, my mech isn't.