257 replies to this topic

[Splitpin]

Check out the (easily) dozens on polls on this issue. Every single poll has resulted with usually the vast majority against a nerf of LRMS. Often the negative votes are even below statistical significance. I hope the devs never let whining be the overpowered part of this game.

[MorbidGamer]

Splitpin, on 01 November 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Check out the (easily) dozens on polls on this issue. Every single poll has resulted with usually the vast majority against a nerf of LRMS. Often the negative votes are even below statistical significance. I hope the devs never let whining be the overpowered part of this game.

Because poll is skewed by how many people are consistanly running LRM. I bet 50% of the votes are from them and the other are from scouts that don't have problems because of lag shield or from premades/clans that use them.

Proof is in the match dmg numbers. Not in a poll.

[Helmer]

LRM Megathread Merge.




Cheers.

[Protection]

MorbidGamer, on 01 November 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Because poll is skewed by how many people are consistanly running LRM. I bet 50% of the votes are from them and the other are from scouts that don't have problems because of lag shield or from premades/clans that use them.

Proof is in the match dmg numbers. Not in a poll.

What about competitive matches? Where LRMs are highly unsuccessful.

[MorbidGamer]

Protection, on 01 November 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

What about competitive matches? Where LRMs are highly unsuccessful.

Then why use them? Why have them at all in a competive match? Because your not telling the full story.

[Asmudius Heng]

I have not read this whole thread but i did read another one and wanted to add my 2c

I don't know yet if LRMs are OP or not ... so far i would say no. I have done a lot of damage with LRMs when the enemy are foolish and have had games i felt like a massive useless paperweight because of so much cover usage ... then i got flanked and killed to death

What i have seen is that LRMs are doing a very particular role apart form simple damage:

- Denial of area

There is probably a military term for it, but LRMs in a group are excellent at making enemies using an area more than other weapons. This is a good thing, they are a great tool for forcing the enemy to move out of an area like artillery does and for making them think twice about crossing some ground that is being watched.

This **** in role and manoeuvre warfare so teams using LRM support and a scout can punish the foolish and force the hand of the timid.

IT is counter-able though. I got flanked by a Streak Cat in one game and it shut me down. He got to me too late to save his teammates but if he got there a minute before it would have thrown our entire back line into disarray.

LRMs have counters but it takes a lot of teamwork to do it. LRMs however require teamwork to be extremely effective, but without teamwork they are also pretty good.

This is where i think we are seeing the problem. Teams using them kick ***, and even PUGs can use them well enough ... people have just not adapted to counter this issue yet.

Now, this might be a case for imbalance that is sure - but i dont think we really have enough data yet ... however they are working as intended. Denying the enemy thier freedom of movement is extremely useful ... but an organised team can shut town an LRM heavy team VERY effectivly so high end competition games might not be so LRM heavy

[Particle Man]

Iron Jim, on 01 November 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

And yet you not only read this clearly labeled topic but took the time to post in it. You might want to redefine who is a fool.

i never called anyone any names, ***. Also, i did read it, and just because he is using LRMs and thinks it's because they're overpowered and not that the teams sucked, doesnt change what i said.

Edited by Particle Man, 01 November 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Wreckus]

LRMs are the counter to standing in the open. Stay behind cover and make sure you pack AMSs while LRMs are so popular in the metagame. Multiple AMSs significantly reduce the amount of damage you take from LRMs... combined with cover you should take very little damage overall.

Caustic Valley is probably the worst map to play against an LRM heavy team, but there is cover in the map (hint, it isn't necessarily the caldera). All of the other maps have copious amounts of cover.

TL;DR: LRMs punish people who run around alone in an open field, like they are designed to do.

[Protection]

MorbidGamer, on 01 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Then why use them? Why have them at all in a competive match? Because your not telling the full story.

As I said, we don't use them in competitive play, and many of the teams don't either.

As mentioned, teams have tried them, and they've rarely worked. I suspect very few league teams will be using them when league resumes, unless they get some kind of buff.

[aspect]

If you run around in the open and get ahead of your team and don't have AMS, then yes they probably seem OP.

...and all I do in early-game when LRMs are most effective is poke my head in and out of cover. Poke out, LRMs get fired, dodge back behind cover, LRMs lose lock and hit the ground next to you. Ammo is wasted and no damage done. Pretty advanced technique...

[Krievian]

While LRMs do have the advantage of significant damage for a single hardpoint, tremendous range and inderict fire, they have balancing factors like minimum range and requiring team work to be most effective. Honestly I'm a bit afraid of a missile boating team on Caustic, but the only time I remember feeling they where unfair was when not one, but three scouts where spotting me in the open; even after vaporizing one of them the missiles rained on me to death.

[CHWarpath]

Well its 2012 folks, and we still have missile boats. Missiles are OK but when you are battling other mechs with actual skill (you know the basis of a game) either you or your opponent is being spammed by waterfalls of missiles. Also lets not pretend the AMS by itself is all that useful either. You can run two AMS's and be with a lance of them and still be spammed by water falls of missiles. I recommend a severe nerf and don't give me your board game from Parker Brothers excuse either. Video games are fun when they are about skill, waiting for a red lock and and pressing a mouse button is far from this concept. I have played the Mechwarrior series since the early 90's and these same bad players were upset when the Ghost Bear Expansion came out for Mechwarrior 2 and it included AMS systems. The question is do you want real gamers playing this game or a tiny community? Me? I prefer tournaments for money and a mass community that is involved in competitive play.

[dF0X]

Why are you here then?

Missile boats are fine BTW. Get AMS, use cover, stay in groups.

[Satet]

Well, according to most of the people defending LRM spam, ECM will fix everything.

[Leetskeet]

They're missiles man.

They have explody bits stuck on the front man

[Team Leader]

I agree they are a little OP if the other team doesn't have AMS or any cover. So yea, they're quite potent and there's not a lot of good counters.

[Rathe]

the interesting thing about missiles: they rock random pugs trying to solo hard, but are currently nigh worthless in organized 8v8 matches.

[Khavi Vetali]

Wonder why in all of the games from the competitive matches and tournaments the LRM based teams get spanked and direct fire brawling teams carry the day.

Hmmm.

Tactics. LRM's are easily rendered ineffective by intelligent tactics.

[dF0X]

Rathe, on 01 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

the interesting thing about missiles: they rock random pugs trying to solo hard, but are currently nigh worthless in organized 8v8 matches.

That's because in teams, the people have already learned the tactics against missiles.

As an example, if you see two lights circling each other in the middle of the field, and there are LRM boats raining fire down anywhere...well...they're doing it wrong.

[Rathe]

Desrtfox, on 01 November 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

That's because in teams, the people have already learned the tactics against missiles.

As an example, if you see two lights circling each other in the middle of the field, and there are LRM boats raining fire down anywhere...well...they're doing it wrong.

so does that mean that missiles need to be nerfed, or does it mean that PGI needs to teach players how to avoid LRM's better?