257 replies to this topic

[Dorado]

Salient, on 29 October 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Now that the doors to MWO are opened to the world, what do you all think? Having a fun time getting pwned by LRMs 1m into the game? ... prolly not, i bet those LRMs seem... pretty OP. That's because, they are.

Stop whining about LRMs already. They are not OP. You are supposed to fear them if you don't know tactics to fight against them. Also stop creating new threads about OP LRMs... there are many you could ***** and moan in already.

Edited by Dorado, 01 November 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[Protection]

CHWarpath, on 01 November 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Well its 2012 folks, and we still have missile boats. Missiles are OK but when you are battling other mechs with actual skill (you know the basis of a game) either you or your opponent is being spammed by waterfalls of missiles. Also lets not pretend the AMS by itself is all that useful either. You can run two AMS's and be with a lance of them and still be spammed by water falls of missiles. I recommend a severe nerf and don't give me your board game from Parker Brothers excuse either. Video games are fun when they are about skill, waiting for a red lock and and pressing a mouse button is far from this concept. I have played the Mechwarrior series since the early 90's and these same bad players were upset when the Ghost Bear Expansion came out for Mechwarrior 2 and it included AMS systems. The question is do you want real gamers playing this game or a tiny community? Me? I prefer tournaments for money and a mass community that is involved in competitive play.

If you prefer competitive play you should know that LRMs are hugely unsuccessful in competitive play and rarely fielded, and regularly defeated by brawler, sniper, and direct fire teams.

[paladin yst]

Quote

Missiles are OK but when you are battling other mechs with actual skill (you know the basis of a game) either you or your opponent is being spammed by waterfalls of missiles.

Er.. if they r actually good they wont be slammed by lrm lol. More like ametuer pilots brawling in the open, smart one uses a variety of skills like shoulder block, cover, even the more bizzare one using enemy mech as shield. Rookies one like u said, get slammed.

[Dagrum Darkforge]

It has been pointed out that you see more lrm boats than ppc or cannon rigs. Well they do their job ppcs are under powered for the heat they give. And you can do the same dmg with large lasers at 2 tons lighter and less heat. With cannons its hard as hell to hit anything most times unless you have a gause and are far enuff back to take your time for a good shot and guase cannons get bitched about to much aswell .

My point is if a weapon can do its job it will be used if not it will just gather dust in the corner. I am a brawler love getting close and ripping arms and legs off and have seen plenty of very powerfull rigs out there 9 medium lasers on a hunchie can gut you fast but no one gripes about them. If you start nerfing weapons becuase some one is useing them to full effect then this game will go down hill fast as i have seen happen before. I always play brawler types and when nerfing starts they get taken down to uselessness as often as any long range killer that is effective. The nerf hammer is PURE EVIL! and should only be called upon when there is no other recourse. Wanna see more ppc boats then beg for ppcs to be made effective wanna see more cannons on the field then ask them to fix the things so you hit your target when you sure as hell should. Do not call down the nerf thunder because some one can kick your *** with a weapon that can do its job and do it well

This is my opinion and as the old saying goes opinions are like ******** everyone has one and they all stink so can ya smell where im coming from?

[Wingbreaker]

Hilariously, after each wipe that has occured, the community has gone through basically the same patterns of QQitis:

First day: Oh my god, it takes too long to get your first mech! Also, pugstomping!
Next three to five days: Oh my god, LRMs are OP guys.
Within this period, roughly at day four and five: Something MUST be done about the catapault!
Somewhere about a week after this: Guuuuuys, this game sucks because we haven't gotten a new mech/weapon/module!

[Ultrabeast]

On some maps they're extremely OP like Caustic. On others they're totally useless like Snow. Just luck whether you roll an LRM or Brawler on each map.

[Asmosis]

Theres no problem with LRM's.

People are getting killed by them because the trial mechs are weighted towards lrm launchers, so when you stick your head out even vs a pug team expect at least 5-10 volleys from lrm launchers. When they replace the awesome with a different stock variant or an atlas all these lrm complaints will go away.

[Sean von Steinike]

LRMs...hmm..out-ranged by many weapons, 180 minimum range, mitigated by AMS, slower speed than fast lights, expensive. Yeah, that seems over powered all right..... Besides, mechs boating LRMs are usually easy kills or at least, fun to harass.

[Helbrass]

From what I've seen so far the damage feels right, it's just not helpful that I'm often seeing them pass through solid objects like buildings and boulders and such. And AMS doesn't seem to be effective enough on its own. It helps, but it's not going to stop a barrage, or even two salvos heading your way.

[Tuoweit]

Protection, on 30 October 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

LRMs are great for dominating pugs, but experienced groups don't have the same level of difficulty with them.

That's partly because the percentage of players in a typical PUG team who can accurately hit a moving scout (if they even notice that it presents a problem) is pretty low, it seems.

[Helmer]

Another Merged LRM post... she canna take much more.....



Cheers.

[Ultrabeast]

Shi no Kami, on 30 October 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Yeah, no reason, none at all... Because Battletech has always been about 1000m AC40s.
LRM20 in TT: Range 630m (840 extreme). ~12 damage average.
LRM20 in MWO: Range 1000m (no extreme). ~40 damage.

Funny how you forgot the doubled armor in MWO in your calculations.

[Solis Obscuri]

Wingbreaker, on 01 November 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Hilariously, after each wipe that has occured, the community has gone through basically the same patterns of QQitis:

First day: Oh my god, it takes too long to get your first mech! Also, pugstomping!
Next three to five days: Oh my god, LRMs are OP guys.
Within this period, roughly at day four and five: Something MUST be done about the catapault!
Somewhere about a week after this: Guuuuuys, this game sucks because we haven't gotten a new mech/weapon/module!

Yeah, pretty much nailed it.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

XvDraxvX, on 01 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

I am not sure if your understanding your self then.

you said in a earlier post that you typically see 3 LRM boats per team thats 3 mechs out of 8

ok the other 8 are likely not running LRM's

If we say that between the 2 LRM Mechs there are a total of 6 launchers. 4 on one say a Awesome and 2 on the other say a Catapult thats 6

6 weapons on 2 mechs......

The other 5 Mechs are likely running different weapons so again your math is off because i would bet that between those 5 mechs there are more then 6 weapons combined. so your 1 in 20 BS about seeing 1 PPC to 20 LRMS is complete nonsense.

Thank you very much, and bless your heart deary.

Really? You've clearly got your head in the sand or always play in Premades that don't use LRMs..... I've played over 200 games since the reset, I've NEVER seen as few as 2 mechs loaded with LRMS, or as few as 6 launchers on the opposing side (I'd guess my side too but I don't notice them as much obviously)

Ultrabeast, on 01 November 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Funny how you forgot the doubled armor in MWO in your calculations.

Oh, did they double the damage of EVERY other weapon to line up with LRMs, or did they JUST double the damage of LRMs to make them extremely more efficient than ANY other weapon? The really funny thing here is, I can see all these same people claiming LRMs aren't OP whining up a storm about streak cats or anything that kills them within their missile range.

Helmer, on 01 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Another Merged LRM post... she canna take much more.....



Cheers.

at least we know that it isn't seen as an issue by the people that are supposed to be moving this information forward.........



There is an obviously glaring problem here, made more obvious by the fact that so many of the trial mechs ARE loaded with LRMs, however, just glancing over the past couple months I've been here, it's very obvious that weapon balancing is not high on the list, this game will always have one weapon that is THE weapon and eventually it'll get nerfed and something else will take its place. It'll just be LRMs for the first year or 2.

Hide behind cover and just hope that the missiles don't manage to fly through cover (as they do often cause clearly hit detection isn't super high on that list either) because as we all know, a 12 lb missile against a 20-100 ton machine is absolutely devistating......................................................................................................

Edited by Ehrithane, 01 November 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I don't think they are okay right now. They are dealing a very large amount of damage compared to every other weapon and for the tonnage required to run them. It just seems out of line.

I would probably lower their damage and increase missiles per ton. Same damage potential in a match for the same weight, but you cannot deal it as quickly.

LRMs would still be able to soften up their target, but it will take much longer time to destroy a target.

Ultrabeast, on 01 November 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Funny how you forgot the doubled armor in MWO in your calculations.

And? The AC20 still only deals 20 damage per shot, and has a DPS of 5. The LRM20 deals 40 damage per shot, and has a DPS of ~8.


The correct solution to doubling armour was to double the ammo per ton (which wasn't done for the AC20). Not doubling damage output - then you colud just as well not be doubling armour in the first place.



The LRMs could only be balanced if about 50 % of the missiles wouldn't even hit their target. And yes, that includes that AMS may intercept more, and it assumes that aiming a ballistic or sustaining a target with a laser are as difficult as maintaining target lock.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 01 November 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Ehrithane, on 01 November 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Really? You've clearly got your head in the sand or always play in Premades that don't use LRMs..... I've played over 200 games since the reset, I've NEVER seen as few as 2 mechs loaded with LRMS, or as few as 6 launchers on the opposing side (I'd guess my side too but I don't notice them as much obviously)



Oh, did they double the damage of EVERY other weapon to line up with LRMs, or did they JUST double the damage of LRMs to make them extremely more efficient than ANY other weapon? The really funny thing here is, I can see all these same people claiming LRMs aren't OP whining up a storm about streak cats or anything that kills them within their missile range.

I ran a group for two hours yesterday, I was in my cat because I was target calling and our atlas had an LRM 20. Took down a couple heavy missile teams. There at a number of way to nullify LRM spam.

[Ashnod]

Perhaps LRM's are OP when you blindly walk around not using anything as cover or trying to break locks or move out of the way / not paying attention to the swarm of golden fire coming towards your mech, perhaps in that case yes. - but for those of us who have half a brain and are able to avoid them.. well... Yea. I can count on my hand the number of times I have been killed by LRM's and I have been playing since 2-3 months into closed beta. LRM's are fine L2P.




Granted once Artemis IV is released they might need some looking into in the damage area.

Edited by Ashnod, 01 November 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[Particle Man]

Ehrithane, on 01 November 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

at least we know that it isn't seen as an issue by the people that are supposed to be moving this information forward.........

because it's not a problem and the info was moved forward months ago and they were not nerfed, but buffed.
this is not a new "issue" and it will go away once people get it through their skulls that LRMs are easy to avoid, once you know how to play the game correctly.

Edited by Particle Man, 01 November 2012 - 11:34 PM.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Yokaiko, on 01 November 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I ran a group for two hours yesterday, I was in my cat because I was target calling and our atlas had an LRM 20. Took down a couple heavy missile teams. There at a number of way to nullify LRM spam.

Please, show me one location I've posted anything that disagrees with this point? Please read before throwing out random thoughts..... thanks. If your argument is that the Atlas was useful, sure, but you don't know the mechanics of the game if you don't think he'da been MORE useful LRM boating in a catapult instead or only mounting SOME LRMs on his Atlas and being in the fight soaking up damage.....

Particle Man, on 01 November 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

because it's not a problem and the info was moved forward months ago and they were not nerfed, but buffed.
this is not a new "issue" and it will go away once people get it through their skulls that LRMs are easy to avoid, once you know how to play the game correctly.

LOL! You guys can jump on this argument all you want. I don't die to LRMs, but I also don't hide behind them either and claim that anyone that dies to them simply needs to "L2P" Stop using LRM boats, then we'll see which one of us knows how to play. The simple number of them flying through the air all the time, coupled with the insane amounts of damage that LRM boats get every match, despite sitting in the back of a match the hole time, in itself is the problem. NOT the fact that they exist. I'm not asking for longer lock, I'm not asking for them to be useless, I'm not asking for more spread. I simply want them to be in line with every other weapon in the game, not the clear choice for the "I win" button.

It doesn't matter how well you know how to play, if half your pug team dies to LRMs, you aren't likely to come out on top. Currently, if you are looking to put out the most damage, an LRM in your missile spot is the best option bar none. This is simply rediculous. Considering the level of skill involved in missiles, LRMs should be the LEAST damaging (currently the most) SSRMs in the middle and SRMS should be the big damager, this is exactly opposite of how it currently is. Currently, the less skill a weapon takes, the more damage it does.

Then again, when I put it that way, I can see why so many of you are so quick to defend LRMs heh....

*below deleted for double posting*

Edited by Ehrithane, 01 November 2012 - 11:48 PM.

[Ashnod]

Ehrithane, on 01 November 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

LOL! You guys can jump on this argument all you want. I don't die to LRMs, but I also don't hide behind them either and claim that anyone that dies to them simply needs to "L2P" Stop using LRM boats, then we'll see which one of us knows how to play. The simple number of them flying through the air all the time, coupled with the insane amounts of damage that LRM boats get every match, despite sitting in the back of a match the hole time, in itself is the problem. NOT the fact that they exist. I'm not asking for longer lock, I'm not asking for them to be useless, I'm not asking for more spread. I simply want them to be in line with every other weapon in the game, not the clear choice for the "I win" button.

It doesn't matter how well you know how to play, if half your pug team dies to LRMs, you aren't likely to come out on top. Currently, if you are looking to put out the most damage, an LRM in your missile spot is the best option bar none. This is simply rediculous. Considering the level of skill involved in missiles, LRMs should be the LEAST damaging (currently the most) SSRMs in the middle and SRMS should be the big damager, this is exactly opposite of how it currently is. Currently, the less skill a weapon takes, the more damage it does.

Then again, when I put it that way, I can see why so many of you are so quick to defend LRMs heh....

The best way to beat an LRM boat is to defend btw, but I guess you and all the other pugs are just to impatient to sit and wait huh?

Edited by Ashnod, 01 November 2012 - 11:47 PM.