593 replies to this topic

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Lets face facts here. Tell MODERN day warriors that once they are empty of ammo they should just shield those who still have ammo. You will get looked at like your insane.

Most MODERN soldiers don't have 8 feet of steel and electronics between them and their opponents.

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Retreating for tactical reasons like making an Assault mech that uses ammo, well, more than a walking shield is making it so that some of the largest weapons in your lance/team are well, PULLING THEIR BLOODY WEIGHT AND BEING USEFUL. Making it so an Assault mech carrying the largest weapons you can field on a mech that are ammo dependant run out and giving them no option but to become a shield or look for a way to self destruct is beyond inefficient, it borders on warcrime.

And being out of the fight for 1+ minutes, where your team is taking damage is being useful? Even if you're just THERE, as an assault, you have a certain "OH ****" factor that will make people want to focus you, allowing your team to lay down the hurt. Any war crime you may think is being committed certainly won't be to your side.

Not even going to bother quoting your above post, it's mostly gibberish, and makes zero sense. Or it ties into your last post, which I just pulled apart like pulled-pork.

Edited by Volthorne, 06 May 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[Sassori]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

<sigh> saying 2012 <in most cases> technology is vastly superior <forgetting for the moment this is crossing reality/fiction lines> technology to something a THOUSAND YEARS beyond us is stupid. It would be akin to saying technology from 1012 is superior to ours now. While yes, some technology, like that that was used to build with such scary precision the Pyramids in Egypt <but the running guess is Alien assistance with that> can make SOME of our building practices seem like tinker toys now. But, combat tech a milennia from now will out strip ANYTHING we have now. period. Also, retreat is ALWAYS an option. No military organization would order its soldiers to remain in a fight when they are out of ammo or out gunned. They would face war crime charges for that. Now, drifting back into BTU saying that we are HUNDREDS of miles from our DS's or any other form of support to keep our machines going is stupid.
*SNIP!*

Clearly you have limited knowledge of the actual Battletech/Mechwarrior universe. It's a key point of the setting that planets and even governments do not all share the same technical expertise and capability that the United States, China, Russia or much of Europe or other even 2nd world countries has.

That ability was /destroyed/ through centuries of constant interplanetary war. They've lost the ability to create new Jump Ships for example, and Drop Ships, except for at those factories that are still running. They don't know /how/ to build new ones.

Their computers don't have the same targeting capability as a simple Smart Missile we have today. Communications are limited, some planets do not have satellites at all, or have their satellites destroyed by incoming raiders and enemy forces, so they cannot coordinate with ground/air units effectively, in some cases, the generals do not get information for /weeks/ after a battle has started!

So yes, they don't have the same technology we do today. They don't have access to perfect supply lines. Rearming a mech takes a long time, got to remove armor, open ammo bin, refill ammo bin, replace armor, this takes HOURS. Heck clearing a JAM can't even be done in the field in a lot of cases.

So, no, the mech that runs out of ammo shouldn't run off. He should stay in the game, provide cover, knock the enemy around, make them adapt and help control the battle field. Ammo shot at him is not ammo shot at still functional guns which allows your actual WORKING firepower to continue working.

In essence... just... yeah.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Volthorne this is for you: And being out of the fight for 1+ minutes, where your team is taking damage is being useful? Even if you're just THERE, as an assault, you have a certain "OH ****" factor that will make people want to focus you, allowing your team to lay down the hurt. Any war crime you may think is being committed certainly won't be to your side.

Yes, being out of the fight getting reloaded IS being useful. How long will it take you to notice the Assault Mech just standing there not doing a darned thing offensively? 1-2 minutes at MOST? Then, you open fire on it, it dies, wasted mech. And I appologize for YOU if you cannot see why what I said above your post isnt gibberish, but solid tactics, then, well, cup full.

@dayson: think of me what you will. Your opinion of me is a cup full of water, nothing I can say will fix your cup. I leave you to think of me what you will, just dont cry foul when my mech stomps ya.

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yes, being out of the fight getting reloaded IS being useful. How long will it take you to notice the Assault Mech just standing there not doing a darned thing offensively? 1-2 minutes at MOST? Then, you open fire on it, it dies, wasted mech. And I appologize for YOU if you cannot see why what I said above your post isnt gibberish, but solid tactics, then, well, cup full.

It might behoove you to start quoting stuff. By "there" I meant in the fight. In the fight != standing around. So what if the enemy 'mechs notice I'm not doing any shooting?

They:
A] They ignore me? They're going to just IGNORE a +60T 'mech ramming into them and blocking their shots and whatnot? LOOK AT ME, I'M A DISTRACTION ALL UP IN YOUR FACE!
B] They focus fire on me? Wasted ammo, drawing fire away from my team. My team gets to lay down the smack-down on them while the enemies focus on something that can't even fight back. Congratz, GG no re.

Chris, I think we should brofist on this one.

Edited by Volthorne, 06 May 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[Zakatak]

If ammo based mechs not able to replenish munitions through even the most risky means, then energy based mechs should not be able to cool themselves in water. If one is an unfair advantage, so is the other. A Catapult has to walk 3km back to his dropship so he can wait 2 minutes to be restocked, and deplete ammunition from the mechbays. The Awesome just has to go passive, walk over to the river and crouch for a bit, and if anyone catches him in the act, he has the means to fight back. The Catapult is either too far from combat to do anything, or shut down entirely.

Edited by Zakatak, 06 May 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Christopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Ummm my cup is full of actual information that is accurate. Yours is full of ego. You're welcome to try and stomp me anytime you want but you're wrong, as usual.

ego smash. you know NOTHING of how this game will work, you pray that everything you THINK you know will pay out here. until the game is playable, keep guessing bub. I know my limits of what I can and cannot do. I know where I suck and where I rock like a god. But, you see that as ego huh? guess that makes me akin to todays Fighter Weapon School pilots. thanks for the compliment dayson.

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

ego smash. you know NOTHING of how this game will work, you pray that everything you THINK you know will pay out here. until the game is playable, keep guessing bub. I know my limits of what I can and cannot do. I know where I suck and where I rock like a god. But, you see that as ego huh? guess that makes me akin to todays Fighter Weapon School pilots. thanks for the compliment dayson.

And suddenly you know how MW:O will work and function, like it's the back of your hand? Where did this omniscience come from?

[Wingit]

Christopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Ummm my cup is full of actual information that is accurate. Yours is full of ego. You're welcome to try and stomp me anytime you want but you're wrong, as usual.

Why are you trolling this page? The last page that you trolled was locked.. Is that why you're trolling on a new thread... Stop flaming everybody who has something to say

[Rejarial Galatan]

I see you take the assumption that I know jack about how this game will function. No, I do not know anything more of this games functioning than what the Dev Blogs and Game Play vids SHOW me. I know my experience Volthorne, I know what I can and cannot do. And like the rest of us, I KNOW I AM HOPING it pays the bills here, but, I also know there is a 50-50 shot that it WONT and a NEW set will be forged either in training or fighting against all of you who want my head on your mantle.

[Sassori]

Volthorne, on 06 May 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

It might behoove you to start quoting stuff. By "there" I meant in the fight. In the fight != standing around. So what if the enemy 'mechs notice I'm not doing any shooting?

They:
A] They ignore me? They're going to just IGNORE a +60T 'mech ramming into them and blocking their shots and whatnot? LOOK AT ME, I'M A DISTRACTION ALL UP IN YOUR FACE!
B] They focus fire on me? Wasted ammo, drawing fire away from my team. My team gets to lay down the smack-down on them while the enemies focus on something that can't even fight back. Congratz, GG no re.

Chris, I think we should brofist on this one.

*Brofist!*

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

ego smash. you know NOTHING of how this game will work, you pray that everything you THINK you know will pay out here. until the game is playable, keep guessing bub. I know my limits of what I can and cannot do. I know where I suck and where I rock like a god. But, you see that as ego huh? guess that makes me akin to todays Fighter Weapon School pilots. thanks for the compliment dayson.

I do know, because it's the SETTING FOR THE GAME. Period. You're wanting the setting to be something it is not. Sorry. Play a different game.

As for rocking like a god? *snerk* The only people who know how good they'll be at /this/ game, are the people in the F&F Beta. Not me, not you, not anyone else (Except for the guys who made it).

I do know that they've said they want to keep it as close to TT as they can. Guess what that means.

Get over yourself.

Wingit, on 06 May 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Why are you trolling this page? The last page that you trolled was locked.. Is that why you're trolling on a new thread... Stop flaming everybody who has something to say

Trolling? I'm having a meaningful conversation and I'm trolling? LOL That's funny

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 06 May 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

<static>

[Rejarial Galatan]

<a voice whispers through the static> think what you want <the static resumes on channel 249.00>

[Zakatak]

I'm going to make a prediction here.

Everyone who is voting "no" uses energy weapons.
Everyone who is voting "yes" uses ammo weapons.
Am I getting this right?

Christopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Trolling? I'm having a meaningful conversation and I'm trolling? LOL That's funny

I respect your opinion, but not your attitude. It's fine to present your opinion and debunk others. It is not fine to be an arrogant self-righteous ******* about it. You have no right to accuse others of having an ego, because yours is quite enormous. You are not the only credible person here, and neither are you the only intelligent one.

Edited by Zakatak, 06 May 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[Mason Grimm]

I've deleted two posts in here Dayson (and company) already.

Cease and desist or this thread will also be locked and a few people will receive vacations compliments of me; a graduate of Grimms Overly Aggressive Moderation Technical School of Awesome Banhammer of Doom ™

(deep breath)

Chill out people! Really.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Hey Zak, me, I vote for repairs and reloads and I primarily use energy weapons hehe.

[Volthorne]

Mason Grimm, on 06 May 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I've deleted two posts in here Dayson (and company) already.

Cease and desist or this thread will also be locked and a few people will receive vacations compliments of me; a graduate of Grimms Overly Aggressive Moderation Technical School of Awesome Banhammer of Doom ™

(deep breath)

Chill out people! Really.

You've got a thread pitting energy weapons fanbois against ballisitcs/missiles fanbois, with some "WE NEED MFB'S BECAUSE NOOBS NEED AN EASY BUTTON!" fanbois thrown into the mix. How could anything go wrong?

...I just jinxed it by saying that.

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Hey Zak, me, I vote for repairs and reloads and I primarily use energy weapons hehe.

That's because you're a "for the noobs, they need an easy button" person. The rookies can damn well have the same learning curve as anyone else. In war, mistakes get you killed. This is war.

[Sassori]

Cool Grimm. Thank you for not being heavy handed with the deletions, the two you did take of mine should have been taken down as they were actually inflamatory, thank you.

@Zakatak:

I use both energy and ballistic and missile weapons depending on the mech's design. Like a Flashman, that's an energy weapon platform. A Centurion, more of a mix though not sure I like the mix of AC-10 with LRM-10. Would prefer to customize that one a bit more as I tend to be a bit more aggressive than LRM's are generally used.

As for my attitude, sorry you took it that way. I'm normally not that big of a donkey's rear but, we all have our low points and some people bring out the worst in others. Fact of life.

Apologies to any who were offended. I still stand by my assertions however.

EDIT: Assertions? Assertions. Fixing. Assertations is not a word.

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 06 May 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

The new players deserve an advocate do they not?

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 06 May 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Zakatak]

You have the decency to say sorry, which alot of people don't. Appreciated.

My final opinion:

• Ammo trucks are available in matches larger then 8v8.
  
• They explode with enough power to destroy nearby mechs when damaged.
  
• A mech can call them over during the match to reload.
  
• The mech must shut down for 30 seconds for each ton of ammunition added.
  
• It can carry 4 tons of ammunition, and there are 3 of them in total.
  
• Ammo is taken out of the players mech lab. If a player requests for 1 ton of LRM-15 ammo, an LRM-15 will be removed from their stock.
  
• They also have "fire hoses" that can spray coolant fluid.

Edited by Zakatak, 06 May 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Like your thinking Zakatak. I would offer up a slight alter to your proposition. namely on the: Ammo trucks are available in matches larger then 8v8. and the The mech must shut down for 30 seconds for each ton of ammunition added.

I would alter those to read:
Ammo Trucks can be called in to use by a player, in ANY size match.

AND

The mech must shut down for 30 seconds for each ton of ammunition added, but, the mech can abort the process if needed and power up again with the ammunition added while the mech was powered down.

I agree, that the ammo should come from your PRIVATE holdings in your bay/inventory.

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 06 May 2012 - 12:57 PM.