589 replies to this topic

[Nexus Trimean]

I can see like Orzorn says how valuable a tool Vocal communication can be. While i like having the text T->Short A text command, but when you need to convey something more complex, like Atlas + scout at 3 o'clock giving cover to 2 flanking scouts, it become faster to hit alt and say it than have to punch the order command 3-4 times. If your fighting in an under strength Lance that has been bolstered by randoms, having the ability to coordinate with them is invaluable.

[Famous]

Coordinating with randoms has always sounded like an oxymoron to me. In the best case scenario the randoms are familiar with the BT world and can call position/model/direction/etc. and understand the same. Worst case scenario your comms are filled with over excited players trying to call out the location of a mech, but having no idea what type it is, where it's going, where it is in relation to the lance, so on and so forth.

With players you know a call of Atlas 12 o'clock can be all the information anyone needs, but to a randomer that message is nearly useless, who's 12 o'clock? Or even worse what does 12 o'clock mean?

[lyonn]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

My personal experience with VOIP has been as follows:

EverQuest - tried, failed, much easier to use chat.
EVE - IPO (initial public offering), horribly executed by CCP, everyone used their own Vent or TS.
BF2 - Private server (clans usually play multiple games, and a single room based Vent/TS server is much easier for them to manage)
COD 1-7 (xbox) - I have to mute it because of people dropping ignorant, racist, and other awful crap.

I've hear people are using Skype for coordinating games in WoT!

In short, my personal assessment of VOIP is those players that actually use it, and use it well, are well organized and prefer to have their own setup. People playing casual matches generally don't use VOIP.

Dungeons and dragons online used in game voice and it was great for newbies, pugs, raids and making friends. It removes all of that;
- What's the vent IP again
- I have TS not vent
- what version are you running
- You must be on vent to play with us
- seepd tyipgn whlie rnnuing ino walls
- did vent crash?
- no one press the button, noob don't press the button, don't press the button, dude why you press the button.... he's not in vent
- Alt tab / move down a channel / Alt tab / *** I'm dead

[Motionless]

lyonn, on 05 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Dungeons and dragons online used in game voice and it was great for newbies, pugs, raids and making friends. It removes all of that;
- What's the vent IP again
- I have TS not vent
- what version are you running
- You must be on vent to play with us
- seepd tyipgn whlie rnnuing ino walls
- did vent crash?
- no one press the button, noob don't press the button, don't press the button, dude why you press the button.... he's not in vent
- Alt tab / move down a channel / Alt tab / *** I'm dead

- kicking someone who, while playing in a warzone or who has speakers instead of headphones, can't figure out how to set a push-to-talk button
My ears.

[Snark]

VOIP usually the first thing i turn off.That and any crap that may block my screen like hulla girls and fuzzy dice.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Garth makes a good point here. Let's be honest, organized groups will stomp PUGs. There are free options out there for small groups of friends, and large groups will come up with a Vent/TS server easily enough.

For everything else there's Masterc...uh I mean text.

Garth Erlam, on 05 April 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

I come from a competitive Counter-Strike background, and I can tell you that I do know what you're saying, but even in a game that didn't have 'throttle' (IE. you can always move forward/backward) we still used text chat. Why?
Press T -> SHORT A
vs.
Press Alt -> say "Short a!"

It's the same amount of time, plus you can lose valuable audio feedback, even if it's only slightly quieter. Not to mention we just made very quick acronyms: 3SA was 'three enemies, short A.' BB was 'bomb at B'. Sure you can say it aloud, but it's not any faster, and it prohibits good audio feedback. We had rules: Only the lead talks on vent, VERY brief if at all, and at the end of a MR 12 match he'd probably have said six sentences, but we'd have typed out six paragraphs.

I'm not saying VOIP is unnecessary for organizing tactics, I'm saying if you're in a public group chances are the other people won't listen (because why should they, really), or will have everyone muted, or will be swearing constantly, etc.

The amount of overhead and support just for this feature is far larger than you might realise - and hell, it takes all of what, five minutes to set up vent for the first time? I used to use it in my CS clan, a friends CS clan, and a random servers vent. It's not intrusive, it's extremely easy to use, and it's one of many options. In-game is a lot of work to reinvent the wheel for people who already have four wheels.

[Thorqemada]

VOIP in the game could be amazingly immersive integrated with "real" combat soundeffects etc. but groups of friends will use a 3rd party voip anyway and pugs will very probably be chaos and in the end it is wasted ressources that can be better used to get the game done as good as possible in time.
So personally i have no trouble that MWO does not have integrated voip.

[DaBlackhawk]

my 5 cents to this voice chat isue is should be part of the game but should be a on/off option controld by the player if they wish to hear and chat tot other players

[Threat Doc]

Awesome0n3, on 05 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

It's pronounced "core," not "corpse." It has nothing to do with a corporation and it doesn't sound anything like it either. Think Marine Corps.

What is wrong with you? Merc Corps is short for Mercenary Corporation; and, of course, I know it's pronounced as "core". Wow.

[bebopper]

I guess without voice a lot of casual players (you know who have jobs to go to familys so are time limited) will be put off I know it will me if I have cant intereact well with voice and have to fumble with text as well as not realy knowing those I am playing with so being unable to read there intent too well. Oh and that same market those with jobs and not much time that will be put off by lack of comunitcation ... there the guys with money to spend ... just saying

[movingtarget]

if we dont have built in voice chat then we need a scout report button that lets us tell our team mates what the mech we have targeted is and where , also commanders will need alot of precanned orders,

i find team voice chat verry usefull in tactical games like redorchestra2 ,even if its only the commander useing it it realy helps the team work together and lets someone give us a coherent stratagy insted of us all being a mob of guys running in the same direction.

[Red1769]

There is a poll for this. Many have said yes, but they can wait for it, others just don't, others have nothing against it as long as they can mute it, and other's third party forever. Either way, there are limitations to both ingame VOIP and third party apps., I don't think I have to go into it as both have been mentioned here and in the poll. Poll link is below.

http://mwomercs.com/...ll/page__st__40

Edited by Red1769, 05 April 2012 - 05:24 PM.

[Orzorn]

Famous, on 05 April 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Coordinating with randoms has always sounded like an oxymoron to me. In the best case scenario the randoms are familiar with the BT world and can call position/model/direction/etc. and understand the same. Worst case scenario your comms are filled with over excited players trying to call out the location of a mech, but having no idea what type it is, where it's going, where it is in relation to the lance, so on and so forth.

With players you know a call of Atlas 12 o'clock can be all the information anyone needs, but to a randomer that message is nearly useless, who's 12 o'clock? Or even worse what does 12 o'clock mean?

Then teach them. Tell them what the mechs all look like. If they have questions, answer them.

People usually say that the Dota community is the most aggressive and hostile community ever, but I disagree. If you're a new player and you tell us, we WILL help you. We'll tell you what to skill, what to build, how to lane, etc. Just TELL US. Of course, if you don't say a word and just die and die and die, then yeah, we'll be angry.

Having the ability to coordinate with pubs is actually very nice. You all might consider them useless, but I see them like a directionless force that must be directed. Tell them what to do, and, if it make sense and you aren't acting like a jerk, they'll do it. They think they aren't being told what to do because of how you ask them, but its sort of a planted order (like Inception!). You really learn how to talk to pub players after a while. Most people will attempt to work with you up to a point (that point usually being either their skill ceiling, or they're too bad to understand why you're asking them to do whatever it is).

It's true, VOIP will benefit pubs the most. But pubs are paying customers, too, and I personally like having the ability to communicate with them. There are a lot of hidden gems in pubs; lots of good players who just don't really know how to go about working with the team. If you lead them by the hand, they will follow. VOIP really helps with this, and I've lead many totally pub teams to victory in Dota.

[The Cheese]

Those who want voice chat will have their own service, true, but screwing around trying to get new people working on it can be more trouble than it's worth. Who wants to do that every time they join a pug?

I played WoW for a long time. The ONLY reason that you could get away with not using voice chat there was because everyone knew what their job was, as every event was scripted. This is not the case with any PVP game.

Typing is not an option for anything more complex than two words as far as I'm concerned. Releasing complete control of your avatar so you can spend 10 seconds typing a comm can amount to suicide if you do it at a bad time, which is sometimes necessary.

It is a mistake to not include voice chat. I get that you want to release a quality product, but having a little-less-than-perfect voice system cannot possibly be worse than not having one at all.

[John Talbert]

not having voip is a mistake. how many times has this issue been brought up by countless communites of countless games?

how can they state that meh! the vast majority already have access to ventillo and team speak.. ok fair enough quite a few do have this..

my question is how matches are generated. are they random? or do people group up in a quere and join another group? how exactly do you propose these people talk to each other in a PUG?

I think nixing the idea of a voip system because your nifty jamming system idea could be circumvented by people using vent or team speak is asinine.

Edited by John Talbert, 05 April 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[Rattlehead NZ]

I think the best example of how VOIP can effect a game is looking at BF2 and BF3.

In BF2 you could talk with your squad or to the commander. Now while the commander didn't need voip, the squad you were in definately did. My experience with BF2 in and out of clan(Death Row in OZ) found the voip to be a very useful. When in public games you have people you don't know in your squad and being able to communicate with them to coordinate an attack or to say "Behind You!!" was very usefull. The end days of my BF2 gaming saw pub games running like clan matches with total stranges and it was great.

Now BF3 ...

Well we know that story. Without it the game is all over the place. People are just doing there own thing with no reguard to winning the match. BF2 and BF2142 had much better teamplay just because it had VOIP. I think it was the number one complaint about BF3 before it's release. I can't even play the game anymore anyway as crappy origin won't patch my game even when using 100 community fixes lol.

Support for Paul.

Battlestar Galactica Online (F2P) has a txt chat system. And while most of the time it doesn't work on some servers, it does however work very well when it does because of the pace/speed of the game and its combat. And since both games are not high speed combat like BF3, I can see that the chat system will work fine for public matches and 3rd party for the guilds/clans/friends will be fine.

Just make sure the chat system is perfect and flawless and doesnt crash as this will be only form of contact people will have that everyone can use.

[StandingCow]

I am indifferent on the subject. When I am playing with buddies I am always in voice chat, or if I decide to join a guild I would join voice chat.

In pub matches... ehhh, doesn't matter to me.

[Psydotek]

Aww, I want in game voice chat. It makes things soooo much easier.

After playing way too much Team Fortress 2, for casual matches it's invaluable especially for a command position (I play Medic mostly in TF2 so i'm usually chattering on the mic even when nobody else is, calling out enemy positions, suggesting when to push/defend, whispering sweet nothings into my teammates ears). For more competitive matches you can/should use your own program like Ventrilo or Mumble.

Edited by Psydotek, 05 April 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

I say shoot the OP on general principle. The initial post he quoted nailed it. All previous MW iterations had no Voip. Everyone used TS/Vent. This is the same arguement for 3rd person, really. If a voip is used with features that distort or grant listening priveliges on enemies, yon hairy cheaters will simply bypass it according to their low nature. The alternatives are all free. The op is just opining the fact that the whole community will not be in togetherland for each game and we'll miss out on some cool stuff because some people suck the kn0b of illegitimate play when the option is available. Until they can be weened from it, no built in Voip is just the best way to go to avoid giant piles of unsecure channels with some asshat always screaming or singing waaay off key. 3rd party solutions provide punt/ban options. Voip would be a captive audience for some 12 yo ADD riddled nutjob who thinks it's his ticket to American Idol. So, in conclusion.... shoot the OP.

Edited by Insidious Johnson, 05 April 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[Helmer]

Wow.

Work all day and then come home to this MegaThread.

It's been an interesting read to say the least. And I'm too exhausted to post about everything said, although I've been sorely tempted while reading a few previous statements.
I doubt I'll say anything enlightening that hasn't been rehashed before but I'll summarize....

Mistake? No, Design choice right now, sure.
Would it be nice to have VOIP? Absolutely , it's an option, and options are generally good. Is it a deal breaker if it's not in? Not in the slightest. However, it would add ALOT to the value of the title and perhap help with "pub" player retention. It is sometimes difficult to really get into a game if you're constantly playing with different people and have no sense of continuity outside your own progression.

I'm used to gaming with a fairly large, diverse group of gamers, and ,unfortunately, it has dwindled considerably. I'm definitely defining myself as a "lone wolf" player who would love to communicate quickly and concisely without having to figure out vent information for the group I just happen to be dropping with.
I doubt few are arguing text chat is quicker than voice, or context sensitive commands are more in depth than voice, but they are useful options. And , honestly, 9 times out of 10 when VOIP is used in a game, it's nothing all that earth shaking. But I have met some good people using it, and some good groups.


Thinking about the VOIP "issue" I started wondering... are we going to have Friends lists in lobbies? As someone who initially will be playing solo, I'd love to be able to group with people I enjoy playing with, even if I am not in their normal gaming group or Vent/TS3 server.
As a "lone wolf" player playing with some of the same people I find fun to play with would really increase my enjoyment. And It would be nice if the Lobby implemented features that made it easier to play with those individuals.

Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 05 April 2012 - 06:52 PM.