589 replies to this topic

[MadBoris]

Not for default pub games, IMO.
Or allow people to specify to join games w/wo VOIP, by way of a check box.
Everyone that has done any MP with their friends or clans 'already' uses some VOIP client, like Teamspeak.

I see this as a problem for new players on some fronts.

After 24 pages of this topic, there is probably easily 100 more important things for the devs to spend time integrating, who don't have a lot of time and resources to spend.

[Aelos03]

MadBoris, on 29 May 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Not for default pub games, IMO.
Or allow people to specify to join games w/wo VOIP, by way of a check box.
Everyone that has done any MP with their friends or clans 'already' uses some VOIP client, like Teamspeak.

I see this as a problem for new players on some fronts.

After 24 pages of this topic, there is probably easily 100 more important things for the devs to spend time integrating, who don't have a lot of time and resources to spend.

why do you need to separate servers with voip and without when you can just disable voip with press of a button ?
i think voip is important thing and it should be implemented asap.

[MadBoris]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

why do you need to separate servers with voip and without when you can just disable voip with press of a button ?

You mean like a mute button?

Edit: They would have to pay to license it from someone, then pay people to support it in the game engine. That's pretty serious use of resources.

Edited by MadBoris, 29 May 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[Aelos03]

MadBoris, on 29 May 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

You mean like a mute button?

Edit: They would have to pay to license it from someone, then pay people to support it in the game engine. That's pretty serious use of resources.

that and turn off/on

I know but its worth it

[Roland]

Eh, having in game voice is kind of neat in that you don't need to worry about it then, but I don't think it's gonna matter much one way or another.

As other folks have said, most units have their own comms already set up for use across numerous games.

The main audience for in game comms tends to be casual players playing in pickup games. In those cases, the best example is probably how XBox Live handles comms... but it also demonstrates the potential problem. It'll sometimes be used for useful comms with pickup teams, and mostly used for trashtalking and little kids screaming at their moms in the background that they want chocolate milk.

[Aelos03]

Roland, on 29 May 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Eh, having in game voice is kind of neat in that you don't need to worry about it then, but I don't think it's gonna matter much one way or another.

As other folks have said, most units have their own comms already set up for use across numerous games.

The main audience for in game comms tends to be casual players playing in pickup games. In those cases, the best example is probably how XBox Live handles comms... but it also demonstrates the potential problem. It'll sometimes be used for useful comms with pickup teams, and mostly used for trashtalking and little kids screaming at their moms in the background that they want chocolate milk.

well true but mwo will have casual players too and problem with griefers(report or simple mute will do the job) is easily solved

[Jonnara]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

We have contextual command/order menus that all players can use. So that should go a long way to solving the OPs needs (I hope).

My guild has a vent server, as do all the people who normaly play togther on the net.

Much better than any built in voip on any game, crystal clear and easy to use.

As for talking to random people on none premade matches - DO NOT WANT!

[Aelos03]

Jonnara, on 29 May 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

My guild has a vent server, as do all the people who normaly play togther on the net.

Much better than any built in voip on any game, crystal clear and easy to use.

As for talking to random people on none premade matches - DO NOT WANT!

but there are people who want if you don't want it no one is forcing you to use it

[MadBoris]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

that and turn off/on

What do you mean turn it off, I could care less if the service is still running.
It's not possible for a client to turn it off.
How can I turn it off for everyone in the match?

I can't just mute and pretend people aren't strategizing on VOIP.

Obviously muting on a per player basis is a requirement with a VOIP implementation, but I need server side games without it.
Simple really, check box in your options will find servers with or without.
To allow it on every server by default puts people without the Mic/headset, or the desire to converse, at a disadvantage.
Having it turned on on every server will make it more of a requirement to use rather than option, because not using it will put you at a disadvantage. Now we have another requirement, mic/headset.

Quote

I know but its worth it

Considering the game is far from being a complete working game still, let alone proving it can be successful, not IMO.
I can see many of the obvious cool coordinated strategic reasons, unfortunately I think some new and more casual players may be put off.

P.S. Do not underestimate the stupidity of public gamers on the internet, you don't want to hear it in your ear.
Mainly, I'm only against the idea of it being a default.

Edited by MadBoris, 29 May 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Jayboltz]

I've never found VOIP in games to be useful. Anyone who seriously wants to play as a team usually use 3rd party programs, and they're usually high quality than anything provided in-game. The only games I know of where VOIP is used a lot are CS and CoD. And I always muted it on those games because it was usually 13 year olds screaming or someone being retarded with a sound board.

[Aelos03]

MadBoris, on 29 May 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

What do you mean turn it off, I could care less if the service is still running.
It's not possible for a client to turn it off.
How can I turn it off for everyone in the match?

I can't just mute and pretend people aren't strategizing on VOIP.

Obviously muting on a per player basis is a requirement with a VOIP implementation, but I need server side games without it.
Simple really, check box in your options will find servers with or without.
To allow it on every server by default puts people without the Mic/headset, or the desire to converse, at a disadvantage.
Having it turned on on every server will make it more of a requirement to use rather than option, because not using it will put you at a disadvantage. Now we have another requirement, mic/headset.



Considering the game is far from being a complete working game still, let alone proving it can be successful, not IMO.
I can see many of the obvious cool coordinated strategic reasons, unfortunately I think some new and more casual players may be put off.

P.S. Do not underestimate the stupidity of public gamers on the internet, you don't want to hear it in your ear.
Mainly, I'm only against the idea of it being a default.

option>disable in-game voice chat easy...

[DeformedSlowest]

I would say that if there were league games (hopefully MWO becomes popular enough) in game comms that built in and you have to use it exclusively. I mean it adds another layer of immersion as I find it cool to be able to frag the other teams COMMS or even listen in if possible. However those are my thoughts and many people will disagree with me.

[Tryg]

The same 'solution' keeps being mentioned that units will set up their own. However, this overlooks the problem entirely as the problem isn't about units. Of course units will have their own. And most of them will NOT allow public players into their private comm channels. This means your team from the start has at best fractured communication.

Commo-rose and text chat do not in any way compensate for a lack of voice chat. A few limited non-specific commands in a commo-rose don't allow you to direct communications. And text chat as has been stated numerous times requires taking your hands off of your controls, in combat, this is not a viable option.

Could you imagine a combat flight sim where your only means of communication is to take your hands off the controls to type on the keyboard? Sure, when flying in a straight line, no problem. Now do it during a dogfight. Voice communications are an essential part of modern games. Will third party programs allow them? Absolutely, are they a /good/ solution? No, not in games where the majority of players are not in your unit. I've played plenty of Counter-strike where I'll have my unit buds in Vent, and I still wind up using in-game to communicate with the pubbies on the server who aren't in the private channel. And you know what? It makes a HUGE difference in gameplay.

So to review, yes, third party voip is an excellent solution...for Units. But when playing with mixed units or lone wolves, it becomes a problem of nightmarish proportions. Between players having only a couple of the many...many voip solutions out there, its entirely possible players won't have the one your unit uses. Other units won't want to leave their own channels to join yours. And then of course these paranoid CoD and Xbox sorts aren't going to allow anyone into their most likely password protected unit channels. What does this equate to? Teams with close to no communication. PUGs may not be the most effective teams out there, but without voice comms they don't stand a chance, especially if put against an organized unit.

And to leave it out because a specific detail of the feature you wanted doesn't work, is just silly. Just case the electronic warfare isn't feasible due to third party software, doesn't mean the feature should be dumped. Thats like dumping Auto-cannons cause you can't get the specialty rounds you wanted to work just right.

[Deathz Jester]

I prefer no VOIP,

I'd rather not listen to someone's ill disciplined children squaling in the background, or someone's dog barking, or someone's drunk friends, or someone's wife. If someone has something useful to say they can use the quick commands/messages, or they can type it. OR BETTER YET, USE SKYPE/TEAMSPEAK/VENTRILLO!

[Ace Rimsey]

Max Power, on 05 April 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

What's the expected age group for this game? If it's more mature players, then I would say that VOIP would be good. If the expected player base is younger, then I don't want VOIP so much.

I've always felt that this is what determines if in game VOIP is good/useful.

I agree. The time some kid decides to blast his background MP3 over team chat "For Fun" really spoils the "grounded in reality" approach that the BattleTech Universe has always taken.

The aliens are humans from a different society, NOT green or grey mutants, or Space Dwarfs or anything remotely unlikely to evolve in the natural course of human history from us to them.

Hence private voice solutions like Teamspeak and Ventrillo fill a gaming void that screens out the less serious players who can "polute" the airwaves!

However, in World of Tanks, the Voice chat can be confined to your Squad of 3 people in the platoon, so the rest of the team of players are not subject to noise polution, unlike in Combat Arms where its the whole team that can suffer.

Most importantly, is insuring the target calling will flash up on the minimap with grid coordinates like the revamped WoT Minimap.

Giving you all the details you need to know (eg. Players name, their vehicle and the target name with the location flashing on the minimap grid with the coordinate appearing.

A pet beef I can have with disruptive players can be also in Text chat. I was playing in WoT the other day and a suicidal IS3 blamed the rest of the team for failing to support his rush. In the meantime, the rest of the team was trying to stop the Aggressive Tier 9 Medium French Bat Chat 25 from overrunning our artillery by crossing the bridge the IS3 failed to defend.

In the end after the IS3 player DingDing died, he started to call out the location of our team's heavy vehicles on the map to the enemy team including my position losing us the game.

Maybe a filter on all text chat to censor out grid coordinates to rule out this type of troll betraying his own team because he wants the match over after he dies due to bad play and bad sportsmanship.

[Tryg]

Iron Harlequin, on 29 May 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

I prefer no VOIP,

I'd rather not listen to someone's ill disciplined children squaling in the background, or someone's dog barking, or someone's drunk friends, or someone's wife. If someone has something useful to say they can use the quick commands/messages, or they can type it. OR BETTER YET, USE SKYPE/TEAMSPEAK/VENTRILLO!

The flaws with both quick-command style commo-roses and text have been brought up. As well as the problems with use of third party software. The same has been said repeatedly over and over without the key issues being addressed. Thusfar, none of the anti-voip crowd have volunteered to address these problems, instead just repeating the same statements about background noise and spammers over and over. And numerous folks have already stated they'll outright refuse to allow pub players into their teamspeak/vent/mumble channels, which right off eliminates these as viable options for public players to utilize for voice comms.

[MadBoris]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

option>enable in-game voice chat easy...

Fixed.

Edited by MadBoris, 29 May 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Aelos03]

@Tryg i agree with everything you said and its logical but i don't know why others are against it (kids will scream,trash talk...) when you can always disable voip or mute people that are griefing when i play dota 2 i find voip very useful and communicating with random people is fun i even gained some friends trough voip, now i don't understand why people see only bad side that can be removed with click and not a good side that provides a lot of fun and gives better playing.

[Tryg]

Absolutely Aelos, in-game voip is one of the best ways to find friends (and potential recruits) for units. Best way to flag a pub player as a potential recruit is see how he meshes with your unit. But how can you do that if you're not in direct communication with him? How can you assess his or her capabilities as a team player if they're locked out of your voice comms and forced to try and guess what it is you want based on minimalist commo-rose style callouts.

Just being able to use the click of a button to tell someone vital information, catch an atlas in an urban environment, seemingly alone. A nice juicy target for a skirmisher to flank and harass, however, if you happen to know from experience that his lancemates are hanging out in side streets waiting to corner a skirmisher.... you might want to be able to warn your side's skirmishers. And a 'scout' module won't reveal that info if you haven't seen em. Sometimes you recognize a tactic because you've seen it before. Experience is a huge part of any team-based tactical game, and a lack of voip removes this capability from pug teams. Now because you don't have an in game, that skirmisher is going to die simply because you couldn't tell him what he was walking into. (In the time it takes you to type up a warning to get his attention, it might be too late and he'll have bumbled into the trap) and a commo-rose "Look Out" command makes your whole lance, potentially even your whole team stop and potentially get into trouble over a call meant for one mech.

[Creed Buhallin]

Tryg, on 29 May 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

The flaws with both quick-command style commo-roses and text have been brought up. As well as the problems with use of third party software. The same has been said repeatedly over and over without the key issues being addressed. Thusfar, none of the anti-voip crowd have volunteered to address these problems, instead just repeating the same statements about background noise and spammers over and over. And numerous folks have already stated they'll outright refuse to allow pub players into their teamspeak/vent/mumble channels, which right off eliminates these as viable options for public players to utilize for voice comms.

The key disagreement that most people have is how many people will use it. Organized units have their own. Lots of solo players lack the hardware, or just don't want to be on voice comms for various reasons. Everybody gets what you're saying - standing there in a heroic pose doesn't change that. Nobody is saying "We shouldn't have VOIP because of loud children", they're saying "I won't use VOIP because of loud children." The issue is not whether people will be left out, or whether other systems are less efficient, or whether comms will fragment without it - I think everyone accepts all of that is true - it's whether enough people will use it in-game to make it worthwhile.

Implementing a system like this isn't free. Even a third-party solution must be purchased, and integrated. Even if it's there, existent units will likely use their own, and others won't want to be on it at all. Is it worth the implementation costs for something that may go unused by the majority of players? That's the root of the question. My own experience says that they won't - in a variety of games with general open VOIP, it's very rarely used. EVE, LOTRO, WoW, various XBox shooters... Seeing people with those pretty little speaker icons is by far the rarity.

The issue is whether people think the VOIP system would be useful enough to be worth the development cost - essentially, whether it would provide appropriate ROI. Lots of people, the devs included, seem to think it won't. You've done a good job of arguing what the impact is of not having it, but you've done pretty much nothing to show that having VOIP in-game would correct those impacts, and nothing to validate the ROI.