169 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

Stone Wall, on 31 October 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

I don't remember other MechWarrior games having collision like the beta previously had.

There is NO REASON why a light mech should be tackled.

Oh the light mech is too fast? Well your 100 ton mech has 10 times the armor and firepower of that little mech. If you want your mech to keep up with a light mech, then don't pick a 100 ton mech!

And it's a good thing light mechs aren't like how they were in the previous mechwarrior games. Having a heavier mech with more firepower shouldn't inherently mean it's a better mech. I like how light mechs can stand equally against assault mechs.

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

I'm sure knockdown will be back as soon as the issues are corrected.

That being said: I do think it was a little out of hand how easy it was to fall on your face. However, there does need to be some consequence for lights running headlong through targets instead of learning how to actually dodge, weave and circle. I would suggest a compromise approach that, while not logical, would at least get rid of some of the stupidity: Only have knockdowns occur when enemy mechs collide. [Let friendly collisions occur in the current manner: potential damage without knockdown.] This will give the appropriate disincentive for bad driving habits, provide for additional means of dealing with lights without having to go streak-crazy and still avoid the stupidity of the "Jenner Love Pile" that happens more often than I care to admit during game start.

[Amechwarrior]

Stone Wall, on 31 October 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

I don't remember other MechWarrior games having collision like the beta previously had.

There is NO REASON why a light mech should be tackled.

Oh the light mech is too fast? Well your 100 ton mech has 10 times the armor and firepower of that little mech. If you want your mech to keep up with a light mech, then don't pick a 100 ton mech!

I don't want it back.

Yea, and he has 10 times the mass and is 3 times slower then you. Don't run in to walls by being a good pilot and all of a sudden you won't spend as much time spectating.

If going fast did not equal hit detection errors resulting in lag shields then I'm sure we wouldn't need tackles to down lights with little problem. Also you could fall down in other MW games, in MW2Mercs when you lost a leg you fell for good (just like TT) and in MW4 it was rare as hell but you could be tipped over and had to hit G to stand back up. DFAs also usually made one or both of you fall over.

A good team will use skill and superior piloting to not be tackled and tackle enemies when it's called for. It's a very high risk move as both lights go down. Now, every bad pilot can pilot badly and do well. They changed it from a potential tool for good pilots to use and evade into another consolidation for those who can't play. Just like making R automatically target things after a few seconds, it helps the bad players more then the good.

Removing tackles only helps the bad continue to be bad.

[Calmon]

Krivvan, on 31 October 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

And it's a good thing light mechs aren't like how they were in the previous mechwarrior games. Having a heavier mech with more firepower shouldn't inherently mean it's a better mech. I like how light mechs can stand equally against assault mechs.

Sadly the medium mechs don't so neverever balace the games on each mech. Tons or maybe battlepoints (like in TT) should be the thing to balance. Nothing else.

[Choombatta]

Inertiaman, on 31 October 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Go away and produce working that factors in the effect of fictional gyros.

Don't worry!
These babies will be in stores before he can figure out the pickle matrix!

[uebersoldat]

It's a completely valid and CANON tactic to charge an enemy 'mech. People need to wrap their brains around this and stop whining.

That said, I rarely do it because I do not like falling, nor the damage to my armor. I might do it as a last ditch zombie attempt to help my team out but hey Jack, ain't nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly viable.

[Ikarti Danaro]

Put it back to how it was because this fix isn't a solution either.

[Myrenous]

Stone Wall, on 31 October 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

I don't remember other MechWarrior games having collision like the beta previously had.

There is NO REASON why a light mech should be tackled.

Oh the light mech is too fast? Well your 100 ton mech has 10 times the armor and firepower of that little mech. If you want your mech to keep up with a light mech, then don't pick a 100 ton mech!



I don't want it back.

Why not ? is that becuase you rely on your lagsheild to do more damage then most players on your team (who are in bigger more well armed mechs) becuase you take next to no damage and you can run circles freely all day everyday without fear of being tripped up? personally I cant wait till they bring back the knockdowns and with some minor tweaking i think they will be a great part of the game.

Let me ask you something can you find in the Battletech universe anywere a rule that states no light mech shall ever fall down from pilot error, or tripped via an enemy pilots quick thinking, or to be knocked over by the force of impact from a large amount of kinetic weapons fire?

That btw was a retorical question, I suggest you get used to getting knocked down becuase once they work the bugs out its coming back. Its safe to say that anyone who says knockdowns shouldnt be brought back pilots a light mech but has no skill in piloting, I personally pilot Jenners and Cicadas and altho i dont like getting knocked down i know that most of the time its pilot error, and on the very very very off occassion its from lag. So put your big boy pants on and own up to the fact that when you get knocked over 9 times out of 10 its your fualt, you have a radar learn how to use it. You should be aware of your surroundings if you cannot learn how to avoid collisions then i suggest a you choose a different weigh class.

Fix the knockdown mechanics and bring them back, anyone who says they shouldnt be brought back simply doesnt want to adapt and become more skillful, and would rather take a free ride on the WAHHmbulance.

[Yokaiko]

I miss my bulldozer Dragon.

Can I has?

[Randodan]

Collisions done right can be fun, especially when the horrible rubber-banding is fixed, and it stays in first person.

Also, please add some metal on metal screeching sounds a la Hollywood to make it more immersive. And, please work on a more elaborate getting-back-up sequence, considering a machine that ways that weighs x amount of tons. Should take a bit longer, should involve different animations, and horrible sounds of hydraulics and metal groans.

[Shaddock]

Paul Inouye, on 30 October 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

NO!

That was 3 less character of code you wrote while responding, back to world Paul!

[Lemniscate]

Amechwarrior, on 31 October 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

It was this, wasn't it? Tackles were badly done, but no tackles makes an even bigger problem.

Between this video, tackling being removed in the next patch and Paul's post in this thread, I can only imagine how angry and frustrated he was during that game.

Good job getting tackling removed. GOONS RUINS EVERYTHING

[Obelus]

I wouldn't mind collision detection if running into something caused damage but didn't knock you over. Getting knocked over was just annoying.

[wanderer]

Amechwarrior, on 31 October 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

I miss walking off cliff edges for well timed Atlas DFAs. No one sees it coming and it looks awesome. Those are always the highlight of any match even if all you did was knock down a slow assault who had no weapons left.

*Atlaibrofist*

My personal best was ripping half of a Commando off in the process of dropping off a cliffside, then quietly backing up and coring the thing afterwards. Looked beautiful, one of the few times I wish I had 3rd-person view and a replay feature.

[Virtusx]

wanderer, on 31 October 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

*Atlaibrofist*

My personal best was ripping half of a Commando off in the process of dropping off a cliffside, then quietly backing up and coring the thing afterwards. Looked beautiful, one of the few times I wish I had 3rd-person view and a replay feature.

let me guess...then you died because you could not stop laughing? I wish I could have seen that and the look on the commando pilot's face.

Problem is, do you put something exploitable in (collisions the way they were) or take it out and cause exploits, lights standing on larger mechs toes like they are being taught to dance?

[Paul Inouye]

Actually, that vid had nothing to do with the decision to pull knockdowns. They were pulled because they were horrifically broken. The disjointed popping around, the 3rd person view clipping through the world, etc etc etc.

What you truely want fixed is hit detection which has taken a big step back in the right direction. The fix is in testing right now and will be ready within the next two patch releases. Not sure if it's next week, might be the week after but it's coming and is MUCH more preferable than the broken knockdowns. As I've said before, knockdowns themselves WILL be coming back once the feature is properly implemented with the Charge mechanic.

[Corbon Zackery]

Paul Inouye, on 31 October 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Actually, that vid had nothing to do with the decision to pull knockdowns. They were pulled because they were horrifically broken. The disjointed popping around, the 3rd person view clipping through the world, etc etc etc.

What you truely want fixed is hit detection which has taken a big step back in the right direction. The fix is in testing right now and will be ready within the next two patch releases. Not sure if it's next week, might be the week after but it's coming and is MUCH more preferable than the broken knockdowns. As I've said before, knockdowns themselves WILL be coming back once the feature is properly implemented with the Charge mechanic.

I have to agree with you the trip attack was being abused by most vet. closed beta testers because you could trip a light mech then he would have to spend 15sec to get back up. This caused a teleport in game effect followed by a easy kill. Also teammate trips we very common along with lag teleport trips.

Now the game has a more physical aspect to it. If you run into a mech its like your charging, punching or kicking the mech. It gives the game a nice melee feel without adding first person melee aspect to the game.

[Henchman 24]

Awww, another I can't shoot a light thread?

Apparently broken physics are to your liking? Mechs with gyros the size of a buick that still can't stand if they brush against a tree, yeah that says working fine to me.

We all know it's coming back...but I daresay, I doubt it will be to your liking...as the ridiculous amount of time mechs ended up on their face had just about nothing to do with good gameplay, or as far as I've searched...nothing to do with canon as well.

If PGI does it right, there will be a real physical interaction based off the capabilities of the gyros on a per-mech basis, which will result in about a 5-10% fall rate. Or they could just take the easy tack, and just hard code a percentage chance for it.

Anything more than 5-10% however, will be viewed by many as yet another broken 'feature' working as intended.

[Lemniscate]

Paul Inouye, on 31 October 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Actually, that vid had nothing to do with the decision to pull knockdowns. They were pulled because they were horrifically broken. The disjointed popping around, the 3rd person view clipping through the world, etc etc etc.

What you truely want fixed is hit detection which has taken a big step back in the right direction. The fix is in testing right now and will be ready within the next two patch releases. Not sure if it's next week, might be the week after but it's coming and is MUCH more preferable than the broken knockdowns. As I've said before, knockdowns themselves WILL be coming back once the feature is properly implemented with the Charge mechanic.

Thank you for the non-snarky and informative reply Paul. I'm glad we'll be getting better collision mechanics soon, maybe we'll see you again once Charge is in!

[Fl3tcher]

Calmon, on 31 October 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

Seriously what does this mean? There is absolute nobody I know who don't want it back. Even the light mech pilots.

He was answering the post above his not this thread in general