169 replies to this topic

[Honelith]

Rammng is a valid tactic!

[Stone Wall]

Honelith, on 04 November 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Rammng is a valid tactic!

You know what they say....when someone's ramming - they aren't watching their backsides.

[Kyone Akashi]

As I posted elsewhere:

As the pilot of a Light, I have no problem with the potential of heavier 'mechs being able to knock smaller weight classes down or out of their way. This did not happen very often - or rather, when it happened, it really was a combination of the heavier 'mechs skill, my own temporary carelessness, and perhaps a bit of (bad) luck.

What really was frustrating, however, was that in the later stages of Closed Beta, some other Light pilots made it their game to just knock you over so that their teammates could cripple or kill you while you were defenseless and immobile on the ground. They did not even bother discharging their weapons - their entire tactic was to stunlock you. I do not think this is the way the game should be played, and it was quite frustrating to get thrown out of an exciting firefight and onto the ground just because some wacko with another 140 kph 'mech slammed into your side whilst you were busy with one of his comrades. In that moment, you are being condemned to just sit there staring at your screen whilst the seconds passing seem like an eternity, the lightly armored 'mech shaken by the continuous impact of recently buffed LRMs with all components quickly switching from yellow to orange to red until you are finally done for.

That I will not miss.

[Latriam]

I agree with you but it is a valid tactic and is even supported in the Table top.
I even managed a DFA (death from above) with my catapault.
just bouncing off each other is bull.
Put the ramming and falling back in. Two lights hitting together should only have a slim chance to knock one or both mechs down agreed. but a heavy or assault hitting light or medium should definitly knock them down.

[Kadaje]

100 ton Atlas tackled by 35 ton jenner, It may knock down the Atlas but it should sure take some damage for it's effort. And since most light's cockpits are at the front of the mech thats where the damage should be applied. Make it so ramming does some % dmg based on the size differential. Lets you ram a couple times but if that's your main tactic you're gonna have a bad time, think about what happens when you just have a couple 1 ton cars get in an accident. That said it may be more difficult to implement that it's worth and some aspects of realism may need to be forfited for the sake of playability and enjoyability.

[Valaska]

Skullnxbones, on 30 October 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

WOW AM I frustrated with so many light mechs running around in circles with impunity.

God you people shut up, obviously they are putting collisions back in but they have to work the mechanic first.

[Amechwarrior]

I just wonder how strong light 'Mechs would be if the netcode gave you WYSIWYG hit detection and reasonable tackles were introduced. I don't think anyone would have a problem with light 'Mechs then, other then the light pilots whining about it being too easy to kill them after having been brought up in this environment of cruddy lag-shooting and tackle-less gameplay. Skilled light pilots would still be a boon to have on your team, but no longer can any shmoe jump in to a +100 kph chassis and become nearly immune to direct fire.

[Jonathan Paine]

Math is correct, physics is incorrect.

When a small child runs into a slowly moving linebacker, the child will suffer the worst of the impact.

Newton:
Third law: When a first body exerts a force F₁ on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force F₂ = −F₁ on the first body. This means that F₁ and F₂ are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. (Thank you Sir Isaac via Wikipedia)

Your Jenner is simply setting itself up for destruction - every kilojoule it brings to the party is also applied to the Jenner. An Atlas has more mass to resist the impact, more armor to survive the blow, and much more internal structure.

paxmortis, on 31 October 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

I wants the knockdown also back in the game but in both ways. But this can not only made about physic see the short example below.

When a 35t Mech running around 100 kph and hitting a 100t Atlas that move 10 kph and both heading each other.

The 35t Mech hits the 100t Mech with around 13.503 (13.503.086) kilo joule, the 100t Atlas impact the 35t Mech with 385 (385.802) kilo joule. So the impact is much harder for the atlas as for the jenner.

Then the atlas moving 50 kph his impact energy is also only 9.645 (9.645.061) kilo joule.

kinetic energy formula: E = m * v² / 2 (E = Joule, M = kilograms, V= meter / second[/size][/font][/color]

So as you can see i this examples i have every time more impact energy as the Atlas had. So there must be a playable balance so that a light can knockdown an assault under "some" conditions and also that an assault will not every time knockdown.

The TT make it in the way both mechs need to make a pilot roll when charged. The above formula will only used for the damaged of the impact.

A way in MWO could be the same as in the TT. Both mechs made a "pilot roll" modified by class / mass difference and a bit by the speed.

But this will be a very hard project to bring in the game and also a much harder to balance it.

Edit:
If my maths i wrong feel free to correct me.

[Lillian StarChild]

tis truth, the atlas will probably fall over due to the centre of gravity, the jenner should be destroyed.

[GH05T]

Put Collision back into the damn game ! I am so tired of having Mechs run through my mech as a method to avoid my firepower. At least if a Mech is not Tackled Make is so that you cant phase through a mech.

Edited by GH05T, 07 November 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Ljeto]

kingck, on 30 October 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

YES PLEASE! its so f***ing annoying to have a light run around my CAT or ATLAS. plus with the lagg issuses i cant keep up with them

Run around, if only that. Some run strait into me than go around. they cant fall. After this patch I'm having hard time destroying one, guess lag shield.

[rodanoS]

Seriously, there is system error, bullet jam, AND NO COLLISION?

please, devs, please... you should respect physics rather than fu**ing laggy teleport.

[One Medic Army]

There's two things I miss from having collisions:
No mother****ing facehugger Jenners. They got that close at their own peril, they had to stick far enough away that they could be seen by taller mechs.
Mechs in general kept further apart, which in turn reduced friendly-fire.

[xRaeder]

Skullnxbones, on 30 October 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

WOW AM I frustrated with so many light mechs running around in circles with impunity.

You won't like it when us light pilots switch to Dragons and go Dragonroflbowling like we did in CB.

Imagine being permastunned in anything other than an Awesome or Atlas. That is the Dragonroflbowl.

Oh... and if you add the knockdown back into the game and they also fix the netcode issue on fast movers you will basically break the light Mech for a lot of people.

Edited by xRaeder, 11 November 2012 - 12:28 AM.

[TheTriforceKid]

Please, please, PLASE return collision physics! It makes no sense that a Jenner can walk into an Atlas and come away unscathed!

[Scratx]

xRaeder, on 11 November 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

You won't like it when us light pilots switch to Dragons and go Dragonroflbowling like we did in CB. Imagine being permastunned in anything other than an Awesome or Atlas. That is the Dragonroflbowl. Oh... and if you add the knockdown back into the game and they also fix the netcode issue on fast movers you will basically break the light Mech for a lot of people.

No, it won't, it'll just mean light mech pilots have to adapt to not having broken game mechanics supporting their crappy tactics. Light mechs are unforgiving if you make a bad error, unlike heavier mechs, but they're also much harder to hit both due to speed and size.

Dragonbowling may or may not become an issue again, but we won't know until we see the new mechanics in place.

What is obvious about the status quo, and the reason why I don't want to pilot my jenner until knockdowns are back in, is that a lot of light mech pilots are getting really bad habits. And some are outright exploiting the fact they can hug heavy and assault mechs without being seen.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've died at least once due to that... I'm completely unrepentant, as a result, of having much pleasure firing walls of 60 LRMs at lights in my C4 Catapult ... and yes, I do get kills that way.

[SPARTAN 104]

Skullnxbones, on 30 October 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

WOW AM I frustrated with so many light mechs running around in circles with impunity.

Do you kids even kow why it was removed? Do any of you from CBT remember the rubber banding on the rails that occured in River City? Or getting stuck on a little rock? Remember when that was going on..we could tackle lights....Now think real hard. Don't hurt yourselves. Most of you dont rememebr the collisions i'm sure. The true problem lies in the environment not just the crashing of mechs. In all honesty the Raven's were prob. running over thing like the Dragons did and the Cicada re-broek their Netcode speed barriers. But what do i know? I'm just some mouthbreather on tuesdays.

Edited by SPARTAN 104, 14 November 2012 - 03:37 AM.

[F lan Ker]

S!

This what poster above said, lights now abuse the non-collision environment to the fullest. Denying that is like trying to lie when caught with hand in the cookie jar. Why bother using tactics when you can just run through anything. Before the removal of knock downs the lights did stay a bit farther away or became easy targets when knocked down or Dragonbowled.

On another note while a lot of light pilots now learn the ramming with impunity tactics, it becomes easier for the rest finishing them off when/if collisions are brought back. The good light pilots just know this and still prevail and do not get knocked over that much if at all.

[MWHawke]

They should make damage by collision more serious. That way, if a light mech keeps on stunlocking other mechs, he would be dead by the 2nd collision since he is going so fast.

[Mordekai]

+1 We really need the collisions back in. Hopefully better working than before they were removed. But anyhow a bad woirking collision is better than none. Those light all over the place and between ym legs start annoying me to hell.