176 replies to this topic

[AlexWildeagle]

EvilMilk, on 31 October 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

make this thread a sticky and start locking down all the Pug vs team whining threads

Wouldn't do any good. Without validation of teams you can't really tell if the results are valid or not. It's nice he asked but people could have lied either way. Team answers, yes we're a premade to try and intimidate the other team but are actually PUGs or a team lies and says they are PUGs when they are actually premades.
OP does an excellent job of documentation but we really can't rely on team information.

But as someone whose been PUGing since he joined in closed beta it's become really amusing. We drop, the counter hits zero and I head out. I look back to see most of my team mates just milling about, I can't help but think of a line from the movie heartbreak ridge, "this is a cluster fk"

Premades can be a pain, I'm more ticked at the matchmaking and disconnect/afkers then premades. We drop 7v8, then a disconnect, then an Atlas doesn't move......grrrrrr

Edited by AlexWildeagle, 01 November 2012 - 05:25 AM.

[RedHairDave]

AlexWildeagle, on 01 November 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Wouldn't do any good. Without validation of teams you can't really tell if the results are valid or not. It's nice he asked but people could have lied either way. Team answers, yes we're a premade to try and intimidate the other team but are actually PUGs or a team lies and says they are PUGs when they are actually premades.
OP does an excellent job of documentation but we really can't rely on team information.

But as someone whose been PUGing since he joined in closed beta it's become really amusing. We drop, the counter hits zero and I head out. I look back to see most of my team mates just milling about, I can't help but think of a line from the movie heartbreak ridge, "this is a cluster fk"

Premades can be a pain, I'm more ticked at the matchmaking and disconnect/afkers then premades. We drop 7v8, then a disconnect, then an Atlas doesn't move......grrrrrr

even if all the unknows are full premades that would mean that the premade problem is even less of a problem, as the premades didnt stomp them.

puggers just need to realise that its not premades causing the 8-0 losses for them, its their terrible play. no insult intended. just facts. it can be fixed though. hop in the free ts server, or join a group. talk to people who are successful and see how. how do i have no issue pugging and you do? its easy, i dont make the standard pugger mistakes. just talk to people in the free ts, there is a training place for just this. we want to help.

when in doubt, 1st-rangers.com we will help you. if you join and like it, stay. if you dont like it, just use the information we give you, and go on your way with more success than you had before. always remember, if you drop as a lone wolf, you can expect to lose more than if you dont, thats a fact/

[Yokaiko]

I like running with the 1st guys, they generally get stuff done, and have a number of pretty good group leaders.

[Aym]

Krivvan you're a beast! Keep up the good work, see you in the Education Center!

[Aym]

FerretGR, on 31 October 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

The VOIP needs to be integrated in-game.

Go ahead and ask me what I do with integrated VOIP in any game that has them. I mute them, so does everyone I know. If we want to coordinate we use a real VOIP program.

[Kunae]

First Knight, on 01 November 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

Taking it off-topic, but am I the only one that noticed it was Founders vs. Non-paying? So that means it was a mix of 7 customized and 1 trial vs. 5 trial and 3 customized with bad results. All did damage so they all tried (how well they tried can not be determined.)

Um... that was precisely why they posted that SS.

[MechZ1lla]

Aym, on 01 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Go ahead and ask me what I do with integrated VOIP in any game that has them. I mute them, so does everyone I know. If we want to coordinate we use a real VOIP program.

Bingo. STO has integrated VOIP. If I want to listen to a mass of loud mouthed 12 years olds obsessed with the word "Wang," I'll go to school with my kids.
Or plug my Xbox back into my router...then the choice of language degrades quicker than my IQ in a Kmart.

[Lefty Lucy]

Winterknight, on 01 November 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

Bingo. STO has integrated VOIP. If I want to listen to a mass of loud mouthed 12 years olds obsessed with the word "Wang," I'll go to school with my kids.
Or plug my Xbox back into my router...then the choice of language degrades quicker than my IQ in a Kmart.

I know a certain community that seems pretty obsessed with "wangs"...

[Comassion]

Hey Krivvan! Was cool running into you that day - you're quite a good pilot, in my opinion, and your pug was one of the more challenging ones we faced - aside from a suicidal streak cat who just ran in and died, it turned into a cat and mouse game for awhile there, with lots of feints and skirmishing action.

After the match we surmised that you or someone else was probably communicating with the pugs to try and coordinate them - is that true? If so, let me say - it really makes a difference. Until your message about the pug stats some of us thought we were facing another premade, or at least a partial one.

[Aym]

Academus, on 01 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

If premades are indeed present in 25% of all matches, but occupy a significantly smaller percentage of the total players base, that will comfirm to my theory that due to the fact that pugstomp matches finish faster than normal matches, premades will drop in twice more matches than pugs will in the equivalent time period, therefore having a disproportionate effect on the likeliness of pugostomp.

This is horrible math, or theory, or conjecture, or what-have-you. Pug players are far more likely to DC after dying due to a lack of desire to learn from observation, a desire to quickly get into another game, and a lack of commitment to the remaining players in the game.
Pre-mades play way LESS games per hour than pug players because they stay in till the end, have to wait for everyone in the group to modifly their mech, take phone calls, bio breaks, and assorted other reasons.

[MechZ1lla]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I know a certain community that seems pretty obsessed with "wangs"...

Nah. Can't think of one of the top of my head...

[Squidhead Jax]

RedHairDave, on 01 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

there just arent, there is likely less. Garth confirmed it. all in the heads of puggers

Did he give the actual numbers? I'm curious as to the real ratios. I'm not surprised at all that it's smaller than most percieve.

[Lefty Lucy]

Squidhead Jax, on 01 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Did he give the actual numbers? I'm curious as to the real ratios. I'm not surprised at all that it's smaller than most percieve.

No, he didn't actually confirm it, but group players are desperate to believe that they're not harming the player base, so they've latched onto one vague, number-less statement.

[Yokaiko]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

No, he didn't actually confirm it, but group players are desperate to believe that they're not harming the player base, so they've latched onto one vague, number-less statement.

You sadly underestimate my level of care. There is nothing stopping "the playerbase" from grouping up. The people that ARE teaming are actively encouraging it.

Again there is no single player mode in this game, if they can't be bothered to at least take the effort to get with the program I can't be bother to care if they get stomped or not.

[Squidhead Jax]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

No, he didn't actually confirm it, but group players are desperate to believe that they're not harming the player base, so they've latched onto one vague, number-less statement.

Oh come off it. Sorting into a group doesn't magically give the people in that group better accuracy, thicker armor, 360 degree radar...

The advantage, so overwhelming in comparison to pretty much any other that it's the only one that counts right now, is unity of purpose, the intent to actually coordinate. Most of a group actually heeding "stick together" and "focus fire" is all one PUG needs to roll another at this state of the matchmaker. The people ruining the game experience for PUGgers are the AFKers, suicide farmers, and rambo wannabees who either do nothing or insist on accomplishing nothing and dying alone, leaving the rest of their team dangerously shorthanded. Eliminating the ability to group won't stop far too many maps from being hopelessly lopsided due to the vagaries of chance.

A proper matchmaker that sorts out players by record will eventually stabilize that, as players that intentionally derp off and perform horribly will sort below even inexperienced and inexpert players who are willing to work with the people they drop with, as those people will actually end up with some crushing wins under their belt.

[Lefty Lucy]

Yokaiko, on 01 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

You sadly underestimate my level of care. There is nothing stopping "the playerbase" from grouping up. The people that ARE teaming are actively encouraging it.

Again there is no single player mode in this game, if they can't be bothered to at least take the effort to get with the program I can't be bother to care if they get stomped or not.

Sounds like PGI should just remove the launch button.

[Academus]

Aym, on 01 November 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

This is horrible math, or theory, or conjecture, or what-have-you. Pug players are far more likely to DC after dying due to a lack of desire to learn from observation, a desire to quickly get into another game, and a lack of commitment to the remaining players in the game.
Pre-mades play way LESS games per hour than pug players because they stay in till the end, have to wait for everyone in the group to modifly their mech, take phone calls, bio breaks, and assorted other reasons.

If you would be so nice to read further instead of furiously jumping around at the moment that someone has a different opinion, you would see that I've acknowledged that such a counterforce exist.

Academus, on 01 November 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

I concur that it will also play its part in the total figure, along with suicider. We'll have to wait until the data is out.

I stand by my previous assertion that I believe the premades' influence is larger than their population percentage would indicate. You can have different positions, but since both you and me are speaking without data to back our claim, I would like you to refrain from calling other theories "horrible math/conjecture" because your claim, as of now, are as baseless as mine.

[3rdworld]

Even if you ignore the numbers of premade vs pug. He went 11-7-1 over 19 matches. His win/loss is drastically different from what the crying on the forums would have you believe.

That is what I find most telling about his topic.

Edited by 3rdworld, 01 November 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[MorbidGamer]

This was Tuesday...



This was Wednesday...



32 games I seen atleast 10-12 premades.

From all atlas to all scout... It was nuts yesterday. I limited my games because it was getting old.

Edited by MorbidGamer, 01 November 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[TLBFestus]

If you flip these stats on their heads, you will see that the pre-mades are meeting PUGs 80-90% of the time, which is why they feel that the typical PUG is getting crushed on a regular basis.

The truth is that most pre-mades are beating PUGs consistantly, but a lot of the PUGs aren't noticing because it's only happening to them (meeting a pre-made) 10-20% of the time. The rest of their win-loss comes from meeting other PUGs who just happened to be better that game.

Edited by TLBFestus, 01 November 2012 - 09:04 AM.