89 replies to this topic

[TANTE EMMA]

To put it quite simple: The guys I play with are the folks I played MW4 with like a decade ago. We kind of know each other, some even do in real life. To hang out with these nutbags in TS makes a big difference. There is a lot of jokes going on, lots of BS and there is always a "keith" to pick on... We are all grown-ups, well more or less... The in-game and inbetween-game experience you get via TS is just so much better.

Edited by Noakei Siegel, 01 November 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[Greyfyl]

Guido, on 01 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Wish I could like this statement a few times. I'll have to do with quoting it so people can see it on two posts.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (is that enough to get your attention to the quote?), is the NORMAL response to a person who just played their first session with VOIC. That's why founder's vets keep emphasizing it. It's not because we want you to play our way, but because we know EXACTLY how much of a difference it makes, and when you realize how much better your game is after doing it, you'll understand why a team that communicates and works together, random players or not, will always win over a team that doesn't. Then you'll find a way to play YOUR way, and still incorporate comms somehow.

Just facepalm - it makes the game easymode, we all get that. The problem is that right now there is no integrated voice comms. For every one person that tries the game and then sticks with it long enough, reads through the forums to find the TS server info - how many have we lost that got roflstomped continuously and said screw it. Not only do new players not know what's going on - they also get crappy trial mechs vs completely modded mech - and then we pile onto them the HUGE disadvantage of being in a pug vs a premade waaaayyy too often.

I just don't understand how so many of you don't get this.

[TANTE EMMA]

Well Greyfyl, honestly, I for my part would not like to be thrown into random groups every single game and then deal with the kind of weirdos that you meet in the PuGs. I have played some PuG - games and the stupidity that you experience there was enough for me to decide never to PuG again.
When none of my unit is online, I will always hop into the TS3 - Server and look for a few ppl to play with, at least I can be pretty sure that they are mature enough not to rage around like little kids. If I even imagine to be thrown into a voice-server with the folks I had the "pleasure" to experience, I would mostprobably shoot myself.

[Guido]

Greyfyl, on 01 November 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Just facepalm - it makes the game easymode, we all get that. The problem is that right now there is no integrated voice comms. For every one person that tries the game and then sticks with it long enough, reads through the forums to find the TS server info - how many have we lost that got roflstomped continuously and said screw it. Not only do new players not know what's going on - they also get crappy trial mechs vs completely modded mech - and then we pile onto them the HUGE disadvantage of being in a pug vs a premade waaaayyy too often.

I just don't understand how so many of you don't get this.

You're right, there isn't a built-in voice comms, that's why they had C3 made. Those are about as integrated as in-game, with the only difference being it's a separate download.

The problem, is that most of the new players won't use this C3, believing that it's the devil or that they're just going to get a bunch of 12 year olds' saying "wang" in their ears all night. That's what the problem is. Most people don't realize that the average age of players in this game is much older (in my unit, 37 is the average age, and that's a large player group) than Call of Diapers or Halo: Reaching Puberty. The part I want to emphasize is that this is a community that actually wants to help you get better and have fun, to help you "Learn2Play", and only a few rotten eggs out there are actually raining on your parade. Hell, some groups have a reputation of doing this, and you just have to ignore and avoid them whenever possible.

I'll tell you what, every time I see some disrespectful **** head out there, I take screenshots and send it to Support, so that there is no "he said/she said" BS that needs to happen for them to get the boot. I don't care who they are, no one has the right to be discourteous to others simply because they're under anonymity. I suggest everyone out there do the same. A gaming community should never have to put up with anything less than mutual respect.

Edited by Guido, 01 November 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[Digital Ninja]

Anyone posting anything containing the word PUG or premade should be banned. Do we really need half the posts on the forum to be about this?

[Johnny Human]

Agent of Change, on 01 November 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

I was hoping to start a discussion on why people choose to use or not use Voicecoms.....

Here is my contribution to the discussion. I don't use voicecoms because I value my marriage more than Mechwarrior.
If I'm playing Mechwarrior, and my wife is sleeping in the next room, I don't think she would appreciate me on voicecoms all night long.

I would really like to be able to use voicecoms. But quite often it is not a viable option.

[Johnny Morgan]

The core issue, IMO, is the need to even use external apps to organize effectively. If the VOIP can be integrated into the game and normalized as part of the gaming experience...win for the majority.

Most people dislike change but get used to the change very quickly. I would personally like to see VOIP enable by default with squelch options. On top of that I would also want a lobby system to auguement the matchmaking process. Allow people that want to lead some control over the structure of the game (# and type of lances, whether VOIP is enabled by default, map/mission type).

I know they are going to roll most of this out along with the metagame, I just hope they focus on how *different* the gaming experience is with the addition of simple easy communication.

Voice Commands that can provide targeting and movement orders will help a lot, best implementation I have seen of a VC system was Allegiance (http://www.freeallegiance.org/). This game was DYING for VOIP but was way to early for it, their implementation of VC is an excellent example of how they can be used tactically.

Communication on the battlefield leads to a better gaming experience and should be considered a major component of the game. The use of 3rd party apps to provide that experience is nothing more than a design issue of the game. I love that they have VOIP in the game, it just needs to be unhooked from the Group options and made the default when launching.

[Johnny Morgan]

Johnny Human, on 01 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Here is my contribution to the discussion. I don't use voicecoms because I value my marriage more than Mechwarrior.
If I'm playing Mechwarrior, and my wife is sleeping in the next room, I don't think she would appreciate me on voicecoms all night long.

I would really like to be able to use voicecoms. But quite often it is not a viable option.

This is an argument on why you need a headset, not why it shouldn't be included in the game.

If you have the sound on, you can listen to your team mates speak. If you really don't want it, you can turn it off.

The majority *should* have it turned on to receive by default, with a push to talk button mapped. It doesn't make the game easy mode, it makes the game feel like you are actually fighting in a unit.

It makes the game waaaaaay more fun than without it. I stand by the statement, it's a completely different game if you are not using VOIP even just to listen to targeting orders.

[GanjiBubbles]

Johnny Morgan, on 01 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

The core issue, IMO, is the need to even use external apps to organize effectively. If the VOIP can be integrated into the game and normalized as part of the gaming experience...win for the majority.

i completely agree, i play another game, America's Army 3 on steam that has a VOIP integrated directly into the game and they have some really loyal players, clans and orginization, its actually teamplay and enjoyable. you can even mute the squealers, start votekicks for multiple reasons. theirs even ways to communicate with your team without a Mic.. i wish i could copy and paste that feature to this game. TEAMPLAY VOIP EVERY MATCH FTW!

[Psydotek]

I'd use voice communication if it were built into the game. Having to use 3rd party software should not be a requirement to be effective. And it's sometimes annoying to use.

I love using voice communication. In Team Fortress 2 I'm usually the only one on the microphone talking strategy, calling out enemy positions, yelling at the Heavy Weapons Guy that I'm healing, and whispering sweet nothings into my teammates ears all through the built in voice chat.

I only use 3rd party software (Mumble or Ventrilo) only when setting up a league or clan match or just messing around with friends on a private server.

[lsp]

Johnny Morgan, on 01 November 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

THIS<< JUST LISTEN TO THE VC, it's a totally different game.

That being said, this all needs to be done seamlessly though the game experience.

The Devs should be looking at the TS/Premade setup and figure out how to replicate that to everyone in the game...without making them do anything.

VOIP should be integrated into the game (it is which is awesome) but turned on by default to RECEIVE but not transmit, turning on the ability to transmit should be a choice..

When I log into a game as a PUG, I should get dropped into my Lance and have VOIP with everyone in that lance, I should *NEVER* have to us TS.

There is nothing the devs can do about people using 3rd party apps to make their gaming experience better...with the exception of stealing the idea and making it available to everyone as *part* of the gaming experience, not an add-on too.

If they add ingame voip, I'm going to immediately disable it. Last thing I want in my games is a bunch of kids screaming through my speakers, or someone blasting music.

[Agent of Change]

bLaCkMaMbA, on 01 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Look... PGI already has matchmaking fixes planned. I don't get why theres so much fuss about this when they already said its on the way.

You complain that you're pitted against premade teams at the moment... ask yourself this.. who's choice is it to go with a bunch of randoms?

You have the EXACT SAME option that others have... don't QQ when other people took advantage of it when you chose not to. It is YOUR CHOICE if you keep going that route knowing that it's a disadvantage until the new matchmaker comes out. It's not like people making groups are in some special category that you aren't included in.

If you choose to disadvantage yourself with random people that can have little to no experience, people DC'ing or suiciding for C-bills... thats your fault and you could change that at any time. Others have made a choice to go with more reliable teammates and PGI plus the community have provided TS servers to remedy this... yet you still complain.

When are you going to start looking at yourself and change your own behavior versus blaming others for taking whats available to everyone? Why whine so much about wanting your own playing conditions in your own playground when they already said they're fixing it soon?

Lorcan Lladd, on 01 November 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Yes, let's choose between the insufferable old ladies on the chatterbox and the clueless newbies, that shouldn't be difficult.

Fl3tcher, on 01 November 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

As soon as the matchmaker is sorted (and I don't mean phase 1, that's only going to make the problem worse) this entire argument will be forgotten.

Hurry up Devs, pull your finger out and sort the bloody matchmaker before half the game population quits over it!

Thank you for your input but I would very much like to keep this conversation separate from the pug v. premade confilict, I had hoped for this to be a more pure discussion on the merits of why people use voice comms, and while that is almost hand in hand with premades at this point that is only because a better option is not available to non pre-formed teams. to be completely clear this is not about who you think is ruining the game or what people think is broken, just a friendly discussion about voice comms and their place in the current game.

lsp, on 01 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

If they add ingame voip, I'm going to immediately disable it. Last thing I want in my games is a bunch of kids screaming through my speakers, or someone blasting music.

I wanted to address this directly, in three months of playing on the unofficial TS server I have never run into any of what you describe. If nothing else comes out of this discussion let me at least say that in my experience the MWO TS3 crowd has been without equal the most welcoming, adult, and friendly group I've run into online. (Regardless of what some of them may post)

Edited by Agent of Change, 01 November 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[jfc1313]

First let me say, I play in both Premades and PUG's (Probably more pugs than premades).

------------------------------------------

To answer the OP, what I like about using VOIP is the ability to quickly disseminate information.

IE... At the start of a match I can pop on my thermal vision and say that I see movement on the 3 line, Or call for focused fire on target Charlie, etc...

Having to type all of that in text chat.... it's usually to late by the time I press enter, so I don't even bother half the time, in a pub.

Now, to be fair... I have had some friends who were a little turned off by some of the elitest attitudes of (some) people in VOIP.

I've heard other players telling people how stupid their build is, etc.

Personally, I don't believe in a bad build, it's always a tradeoff between: heat, firepower, and armor. If a build works for you, then who am I to say differently.



-----------------------------------------------

That being said, VOIP in my opinion, does make the game far more enjoyable.

The only reason I like playing PUB's is because I feel that if I can do it in a PUB, it only makes me a better player overall. It's easy to get a couple of kills with coms, much harder when you have to rely on the graphical information to figure out what's going on.

-----------------------------------------------

To address some of the concerns people have voiced over built in VOIP:

I think people need to understand that this is still in BETA. We are BETA TESTERS.

The game is not even close to being finished, right now we're only able to play what PGI calls, "The Lone Wolf" experience. The actual scope of the game that PGI is trying to put out is very ambitious. To top that off, the engine that they are using (Cryengine), while graphically superior, was not designed for some of the physics involved in this game. That means that the programmers have much greater priorities.

As such, they are trying to integrate third party software to address the VOIP concerns that most people have. That is also going to take some time and programming, but less than writing their own code from scratch.

So, those issues are being adressed by PGI, you just have to be patient and give them time.

Edited by jfc1313, 01 November 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[KinLuu]

Build in ingame voice is terrible.

In all games that have this feature I was forced to disable it after a couple of games. To many *******, talking to much crap.

Even worse when you can not even disable it, like in the new MoH. I rather play completely without sound than with ingame voice.

Teamspeak all the way. A third party tool is a kind of selection. Most of the ******* wont make it there.

[Yokaiko]

Greyfyl, on 01 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

And see right there is where you are wrong. Just plain wrong.

You are trying to force the larger part of the gaming community to play YOUR way. If they don't want to play your way then screw them - they can just be cannon fodder for you 'real' players.

The problem is - how many hardcore MW fans are there really out there. Enough to support this game just by ourselves? I doubt it. We need other players - including the ones that want to just drop solo if they only have 15 minutes (or quite frankly if they don't want to listen to people like you in their ears).

Not everyone looks to their computer games as a social event.

PGI dropped the ball by throwing new players into matches with hardcore players regardless of whether they are truly premade vs pug or not. I've seen plenty of games this week that weren't premades, but had 6 or 7 founders in top gear mechs facing 6 or 7 trial mechs. Really PGI?

Beta or not - this will have an effect on the long term longevity of the game. Most of us have been waiting a long time for this game and I find it hilarious that so many of you can't show any amount of restraint in this regard. But I guess I was expecting way too much from an online gaming community.

I'll play my way regardless thank you, weather you play intelligently or not is of little consequence to me. The tools are there, use them or don't.

I'm far from a hardcore taker, I can't I juggle a career and a full time course load a school.

So guess what I pug too, a lot. When I do and we get rolled I don't get worked up about it. I didn't use the options i had to stop it. So what.

When I actually DO get to sit down and play I WILL use the tools available to me. It's a multiplayer game, I will treat it as such.

[Killeralpha]

"As it stands now the MM has the WOT equivalent of matching a 8 man tank company versus 8 complete randoms in a random battle. There's a very good reason why Wargaming limited platoons to 3 men only in a 15 man team."

AND if they allow platoons in they PUT ANOTHER equivalent platoon in the enemy team too !!

Thats what PGI still doesnt get it !
They think they can just limit to 4 platoon BUT they dont think they HAVE TO put another 4 platoon at enemy too !
A 4 guys platiin + 4 noobs still crashe np a 8 pug

[Ghosth]

Redmond you need to google C3, download and install it. Then if you form a group in MWO it will put you into the same group in C3.

The problem is they did the quick/easy group integration which really wasn't needed,(TS, Vent, Mumble) and ignored putting all the pugs into groups which is very much needed.

I keep saying it, and I'll say it again.

There are 3 levels of communication/Teamwork currently in MWO.

A 8 random solo players with no voip, no comms other than keyboard, minor teamwork. ie Pug

B 8 semi random players who log into TS first and drop into a group. This is bring what you like, no real plans, but when the enemy crests the ridge focus fire and take them down. Some of these guys may have played together before, most have not.

C House group, Merc Corp, Clan 8 guys who have probably gamed together for years. These are the groups that you tend to see running all the same build. Or doing extreme teamwork. My first introduction to the Hunchback P was one of these groups that rolled 8 of them. Every time I could get lined up on 1, I had 2 more shooting me in the back.

I was in a partial group at the time, 3 of us on comms, and they rolled through us in less than 4 minutes.
It was like clockwork.

Depending on their leadership these are the guys that "may" trashtalk, recruit, Alt F4 jokes at the start of a match.
And it does depend exactly on how their group is setup, how old they are and what they consider "fun".
Some of these groups are incredibly rude, trash talking, dropping the f bomb on voice constantly, etc.
They can be the very best of what online gaming has to offer, or the very worst. Depending on your point of view, the group of people, and their leadership.

Edited by Ghosth, 02 November 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[Rotaugen]

I played a few more rounds last night in my first try at Teamspeak. I found the group of randoms that I ran with before, and waited until an opening came up and jumped back in. We won all but one match, and we could tell the other side was probably a merc group or clan. We actually came close to winning, with a final battle on the enemy base. Afterwards, one of their team leaders jumped into our Teamspeak drop ship, and we did a short post game analysis. VERY cool, and everyone was extremely friendly. I saw he had a tag, something like SR maybe? I know that I will be hanging out at the Outreach server now. The devs should have every account sent an e-mail showing the really simple steps to find a group using 3rd party voice comms. It is a completely different experience. Two of the people on our team didn't even use mics, they just had headsets to listen, and it worked out great for them. They could follow the flow of the battle, and didn't have to talk and worry about waking anyone. Even though we lost, the game against an organized group was the most fun one that I have had in MWO.

[Taryys]

To this I will say the same thing I have already said in this thread: I am in a similar situation. I can only play after 10:30 at night and our computer is in our bedroom. If you are on voice comms you do not have to talk. VOIP Clients come with a text chat, but even that does not matter. You will gain significant advantage by just being able to hear what is going on and what you team is planning. You do not need to talk. You just need to listen in order to reap significant rewards and increase the joy of the game.

[Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

Johnny Human, on 01 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Here is my contribution to the discussion. I don't use voicecoms because I value my marriage more than Mechwarrior.
If I'm playing Mechwarrior, and my wife is sleeping in the next room, I don't think she would appreciate me on voicecoms all night long.

I would really like to be able to use voicecoms. But quite often it is not a viable option.

[Johnny Morgan]

This is a really good discussion, I have been enjoying seeing people pop up with the same experiences as me with VOIP in this game.

I should state, I am 36 have a wife and autistic son and I do not have a lot of time to spend on gaming. The reason I go to the VOIP solution is because I am almost guaranteed a better gaming experience at the cost of a few extra minutes getting organized.

I have applied to a Merc Corp, mainly because they play at the same time as me and were a frickin GREAT group of guys to play with. (highland dragoon guards, check em' out!).

This just highlights the need to keep pushing on the VOIP integration (needs to be part of the installer, blah blah, SEAMLESS!!).

A tight lobby system, which basically from my understand is what the Metagame is going to be all about, I am hoping for a system that is similar to MW2 Mercs, where there are 'Jobs and Missions' thrown up and the matchmaker stuffs people into them based on skill, faction, Clan/Corp, friends list but also allows people to choose what they want to do it *IF* they want to.

Don't want to, just go to quick launch and get throw into something that fits your faction and skill level. Want a more in depth Metagame, start picking where your Corp fights and who they fight against.

There is no need with this game to settle for the lowest common denominator, we can all have our cake and eat it too....as long as it's not a lie!

Seriously thought, turn it off if you don't want it, the truth of the matter is that the majority will benefit from it in the same manner that the current minority does. Just because you don't want a feature doesn't mean it isn't valuable to the gaming experience as a whole. That needs to be considered in design choices and this is one that clearly benefits the casual gamer if implemented properly (re: simple and without thinking about it).

It's a Win/Win for the majority of players and should be implemented with that in mind. That's not to say the concerns are not legit, that's why we also need options to kick and squelch players. The community will strip out asshats, it's not like CONSOLE players are going to be mixing with us


........plus it's totally impossible to teabag someone in a mech, that's going to keep like 99% of the douches out of the game....just saying....

Edited by Johnny Morgan, 02 November 2012 - 05:53 AM.