167 replies to this topic

[AlexEss]

Mylar, on 01 November 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

A lot of people rag on Drago for his stance against the wang...
It's silly really and comes from people not looking at issues through the eyes of others.

I'd call this a case of "lay in the bed you made" Drago do not bother to see thing form any other PoV then his own. So nobody cares to give him that curtsy back.

[Drago6817]

Jetfire, on 01 November 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Hard Point loadout really is not going to be a game breaker in a tactical balance sense.

Hero Mechs need to be Unique or they have no purpose. Balancing their loadout is critical to making them side grades and not upgrades from other variants.

There should be a "Super Size It" option that you can pay an MC premium to attach a 20-30% CB bonus to any Mech and unlock a cool skin, like say a Team PGI skin.

There is really no way of doing that as every variant is strong in certain situations, thus if your hero mech drops in a game where the mech make up makes it particularly strong, your hero mech has had an effect on the outcome of the match, thus it is unfair too ther other participants of that particular match. Balancing the mech to have the same overall win rate would do nothing to end the problem of a variant unavailable tot he entire player base and crys of p2w would continue.

Not to mention that keeping all the hero mechs perfectly balanced is a nearly impossible task. All Esports competitive gmes have regular balance patches as balance is a moving target which is pretty much impossible to fully nail down, especially If you regularly introduced new content to your game.

[Axeman1]

Jetfire, on 01 November 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Hero Mechs need to be Unique or they have no purpose. Balancing their loadout is critical to making them side grades and not upgrades from other variants.

Free to play games SHOULDN'T HAVE REAL-MONEY SIDEGRADES.

A successful free to play game should offer aesthetic options only, and if they have anything else then that is the definition of PAY-TO-WIN

[AlexEss]

Actually any F2P game that want to be around for any time (and can pull it off, LoL is a good example of a game that would not be able to do it due top the complex dynamics between champions) should be offering side grades because there is a limit to how much visual upgrades you can sell and how much you can charge for them. What they should NOT do is offer upgrades for money unless they can be bought for in-game money and without a crippling grind. (see NeedforSpeed:World as an example of how NOT to do it. A game that free players simply can not compete with the paying crowd due to a insanely low drop rate on upgrade parts for the cars and that until recently all the best cars could be only be bought with cash, not sidegrades but pure upgrades)

[Axeman1]

AlexEss, on 01 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Actually any F2P game that want to be around for any time should be offering side grades because there is a limit to how much visual upgrades you can sell and how much you can charge for them.

LoL offers nothing but skins that can only be purchased with real money, and last I checked they're doing pretty well. You derailed your own post by mentioning them and just proved yourself wrong.

Edited by Axeman1, 01 November 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Drago6817]

AlexEss, on 01 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Actually any F2P game that want to be around for any time (and can pull it off, LoL is a good example of a game that would not be able to do it due top the complex dynamics between champions) should be offering side grades because there is a limit to how much visual upgrades you can sell and how much you can charge for them. What they should NOT do is offer upgrades for money unless they can be bought for in-game money and without a crippling grind. (see NeedforSpeed:World as an example of how NOT to do it. A game that free players simply can not compete with the paying crowd due to a insanely low drop rate on upgrade parts for the cars and that until recently all the best cars could be only be bought with cash, not sidegrades but pure upgrades)

I'd argue that that is simply the less extreme example of pay to win. Anything that can affect game play should not be sold, And LOL is a very good example of how successful a free to play game can be if they develop trust with the community and uphold a strict policy of fair and balanced game play accessible to ALL players.


You bring up complex interactions as a reason to not sell in game heros/mechs, but there are some pretty complex interactions going on in a team vs team mech battle....



P.S. just to add to this, your statement about any game wanting to stick around should offer unique game play effecting items for money,.. well in my experience this is not true, the only example of a game like this succeeding is WOT, which does have ways for free players to acquire gold so it's not even truly unavailable to the free player. If you can come up with an example of a game that went this route and didn't fail miserable, be my guest.

Edited by Drago6817, 01 November 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[AlexEss]

If you actually read my post Axeman1 i wrote

(and can pull it off, LoL is a good example of a game that would not be able to do it due top the complex dynamics between champions)

As in LoL is way to complex and delicately balanced to start introducing variants that are side-grades. MWO does not have that problem as even if you introduce a different hard point layout they weapons that go in there are always the same.. a med laser is always a med laser and so on and so forth.

Drago6817, on 01 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

which does have ways for free players to acquire gold so it's not even truly unavailable to the free player. If you can come up with an example of a game that went this route and didn't fail miserable, be my guest.

I would e glad to do so, if you can define what you consider "fail miserable".

Edited by AlexEss, 01 November 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Axeman1]

AlexEss, on 01 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

If you actually read my post Axeman1 i wrote

(and can pull it off, LoL is a good example of a game that would not be able to do it due top the complex dynamics between champions)

As in LoL is way to complex and delicately balanced to start introducing variants that are side-grades. MWO does not have that problem as even if you introduce a different hard point layout they weapons that go in there are always the same.. a med laser is always a med laser and so on and so forth.



I would e glad to do so, if you can define what you consider "fail miserable".

Now I know you're trolling. LoL doesn't do what you describe and are flourishing.

Also hardpoint layout matters. It's the difference between being able to equip an atlas with 4 large pulse lasers in an RS versus any other variant that cannot. It affects game balance and should not exist.

[Corbon Zackery]

Aim for the red dot and blow up the AC 20 ammo.

I tried the wang for 3 days before open reset. It just didn't do well for me the AC in the arm got blown off leaving me with 2 CT lasers on the whole mech.

I sure some people like it but I wait for the 2nd hero mech to come out.

Just my opinion I not trying to push people away from buying it.

Thanks

[Drago6817]

AlexEss, on 01 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

If you actually read my post Axeman1 i wrote

(and can pull it off, LoL is a good example of a game that would not be able to do it due top the complex dynamics between champions)

As in LoL is way to complex and delicately balanced to start introducing variants that are side-grades. MWO does not have that problem as even if you introduce a different hard point layout they weapons that go in there are always the same.. a med laser is always a med laser and so on and so forth.



I would e glad to do so, if you can define what you consider "fail miserable".

Did not turn out like cosmic break, gunz, any or any of the other f2p/p2w titles that death spiraled. Coincidentally i've heard the whole "This isn't p2w because you can beat a paid mech with a free one so it's balanced" argument before on the cosmic break forums, which is one of the most p2w games I've ever player (it was incredibly fun though, I'll give it that)

On the LOL thing, I think I would argue that the interactions between mechs is just as complex, and that you are mistaken if you think hardpoints are the only unique feature of the YLW.

[AlexEss]

If it was not for the fact that i currently is trying to figure out a good way to sum up Discourse and Image Analysis on two pages without making a mess of it i'd draw you a diagram... I might do it tomorrow just to make it clear that i am in fact not trolling,,, But for now i do not have the time or energy to do that. It is bad enough to dig around and prying out F2P titles that might fit Draggys potential list as per his request.

[Onyx Rain]

Griefing people for buying a YLW is stupid. Some people like the mech, like the skin, and like the 30% boost....and have the money to buy/spend more MC then some of us. Don't be jealous...or just mean for no other reason then to entertain yourself. That makes you a crappy person. S T F U and just play the game. (For the record I don't own a YLW, but I tried one before OB)

Also the AC20 or Gauss med/med pulse laser fast YLW in the hands of decent pilots can be deadly. XL's are not the death traps so many of you think they are.

Takes an adjustment to tactics, but when you put the advantages to work for you effectively you will get results on par, if not exceeding what other people do in their standard engine builds in many mech types. Of course some mechs lend themselves to xl's more then others....but Look at fast awesomes, big wide easy to hit beasts?....those things are crazy good in the hands of good pilots.

As a driver of one I can tell you that I do as well or better in my fast 9m with alphas in the 47-60dmg range then I do in my slower standard awesomes with alphas in the 70-80+ range.

I used to do better in my fast atlases before the engine restrictions then in my standard atlas brawlers. The build suits different play styles and tactics can bridge most any gaps in survivability when looked at over a period of several matches. Sure the xl may get you killed faster in one match...but how many times did it save you in that match or other matches?

What may suck when you use it may rock when other people use it....because of how they use it. And vise/versa of course.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 01 November 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[Vhyle]

There was a fellow in a match I had earlier in the day that was stating that the YLW was a piece of.. well ya know. I proceeded to show him just how it wasn't, I ended the match with 3 kills and over 530 damage, top of the game. Most YLW's and Centurion pilots I've seen have all been rambo types that try to brawl but get wasted.

The thing people need to be aware of, is that this is not a 1v1 game, it's a team game. If you charge your mech in alone thinking that you're going to get a 1v1, then you are sadly mistaken. It's a team game, and charging solo at a team will get you killed pretty quick. My unit can rip a mech apart in under 20 seconds. It's touted as a team based game.

Anyway, once you learn how to run a mech, you can be dangerous in it. Just because one person's opinion is that the mech is grabarge, doesn't make it so. I've proven it already to numerous people who thought this mech was garbarge. It's not a pay to win mech, not in the slightest. People who think it is simply do not know what pay to win is, period.

[Nintenja]

Just tell them, "I'm sorry MWO doesn't accept food stamps."

[Odweaver]

I used some of my founder cbills on the wang just to have a more cost effective medium, the pilot tree issue doesn't bother me too much because for a while they had the same issue with the jenner tree before they added the k, so they will probably re-add a third cent variant within the next few patches.

Edited by Odweaver, 03 November 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[BloodLegacy]

Don't worry over it too much MorsMortis, screw the P2Whiners. Play with your Wang all you like.

[Jake Stark]

Viktor Drake, on 01 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Welcome to the world of premium tanks....errrr mechs hehe

I own a Type 59 tank in WoT and don't think I have played one match in that tank without someone giving me grief.

Best thing to do is ignore them.

Of course, at least in MWO, everyone knows Yen sucks Wang so if you own one, you don't have to deal with people claiming your overpowered.

I went through the same thing in my Lowe and Type59 as well. It is ironic that us wallet warriors allow them to play for free. I just told them to get a job and get one themselves. They must be democrats, complaining about getting nothing for free then wanting to tax those who work for their toys.

[AgroAlba]

Lin Shai, on 01 November 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I'm going to go buy one this evening simply because you made this insipid post. I may never even use it, but it sure will look nice in my mech bay next to my founder's mechs.

Do it, man. That's literally why I bought Yen Lo Wang. Some may think that's a stupid reason, but I wanted to voice my opinion that I thought it was fine as a Hero Mech, fine as a pay to play item, and the best way I felt to do that was to purchase it.

And to be honest, I love the damn thing!

[XTRMNTR2K]

I like to turn Yen-Lo-Wangs into smoldering piles of scrap metal with my CN9-A.

Out of tactical reasons*, of course.

*It's fast and agile and can turn into a threat for anyone's rear armor if left unchecked for too long. That, and wang jockeys seem to have a tendency to run ahead of everyone else and get themselves killed.

[Sean von Steinike]

I shoot at them, just like any other mech. I don't have time to be wasting with useless taunts.