64 replies to this topic

[The Velociraptor]

Hey community,


I'd like to talk about the Mech Trees. I know the game is in beta Status and thus that might be the proper time for feature adjustment.

Right now people are building their own mechs and arguing about DHS, etc. But once all this will be settled, people concerns will turn towards the pilot and mech trees !

In its actual state, to unlock all trees and improve your favorite mech to the very best, it will require you to buy 2 extra variants (similar chassis) of that mech, and farm xp with those to complete their basic.


MAIN ISSUES :

-This makes no sense !
Why does each chassis has diferents variants ?
-To give players different choices and buy the mech that fits them most.
Then why do we still have to buy all variants (3) in the end to get elite skills ?
-It's paradoxal, first it says: "please choose the one you prefer." Then it says "Btw, if you want to master one, buy all variants, derp."

-Time consuming (mindlessfarm) :
In order to buy all 3 variants, you'll have to buy them (MC/C-Bill) and that is a lot of farm to improve one mech. To get your mech to the top, you will mostly have to buy 3 times its cost (+ all the fittings).
Instead of spending 30 hours to buy/farm/xp 3x mechs, Spend 30 hours to cap all tiers for one mech tree only.

-Not respectfull towards the community :
This features in its state only make sense for business: 1) This tons of C-Bill required will force players into thinking of the premium 2) This will probably push some fans to buy the 3x variants with MC to save time.
As a personnal note, I'm fine to spend much "irl money" (300€+ in LoL skins) for F2P if the game deserves it, though I won't spend a peny for games which forces you to buy with mindlessfarming tricks.

SOLUTIONS :

-Revamp the trees :
Each mechs has its own mech trees and you do not need to own other variants to increase the one you like.

-More customization :
The Mech Trees are made of 3 tiers (Basic, Elite, Master) and requires you to make wise choices in each tiers as you can only afford some of the skills.
...The choice for basic could be : +15%arm rotation /OR/ +15% torso rotation (favors builds where you set weapons on arms or torso).
...The choice for elite could be: +7% max speed /OR/ +25% Acceleration (favor diferent approach of gameplay)


CONCLUSION :

-People are very productive in theorycraft and making builds, they will enjoy unlocking skills that fits their build instead of mindlessly farming all skills like if it was a burden.

-For some people this feature might not be very important, for others more... I think this do not require much work to make something from very boring into a cool feature.

Edited by The Velociraptor, 06 November 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[The Velociraptor]

Bumpyliy bump, the thread disappeared in half a second bellow DHS threads.

[Lavrenti]

I agree that the current XP model is pretty awful. Can't really be called a tree, because there are no branches - you just have to tick all the boxes in it. I think they should reward specialisation, and there should be decisions to make at some stages about what you want that specialisation should be depending on the role you're intending to fill. For example: do I want a 10% weapon range bonus, or 10% quicker torso twist?

[Inconspicuous]

Lavrenti, on 02 November 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I agree that the current XP model is pretty awful. Can't really be called a tree, because there are no branches - you just have to tick all the boxes in it. I think they should reward specialisation, and there should be decisions to make at some stages about what you want that specialisation should be depending on the role you're intending to fill. For example: do I want a 10% weapon range bonus, or 10% quicker torso twist?

The game is not really set up for multiple pilots on one account so specialization would mean we have to make multiple accounts to grind different skilled pilots. I would not like that.

[Lavrenti]

Inconspicuous, on 02 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

The game is not really set up for multiple pilots on one account so specialization would mean we have to make multiple accounts to grind different skilled pilots. I would not like that.

Then how about you have slots for skills you've earned? There would be more skills than slots, and in the Pilot Lab you choose which skills you'll equip. So you can still level up in whatever you want but can't just take them all for every match.

Edited by Lavrenti, 02 November 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[Inconspicuous]

I guess it's because I prefer simulation games where pilot skill comes from practice and not unlocking 'helpers'. I find pilot trees distasteful to begin with but one that limits my choices and abilities seems fundamentally worse than the current system and would seem like more of a cash grab as I would have to invest time and/or more money to get multiple pilots to 'elite'.

Simulation= IL2, CloD, DCS series, Race07 series, etc...

[Protection]

We've had all kinds of threads and polls in agreement with these ideas. At this point, we're basically waiting on PGI to acknowledge that there is a problem, and then whether they want change it and how. If they want ideas from the community, they ought to let us know, and they'd have two dozen illustrated examples by the end of the day.

[The Velociraptor]

Protection, on 02 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

We've had all kinds of threads and polls in agreement with these ideas. At this point, we're basically waiting on PGI to acknowledge that there is a problem, and then whether they want change it and how. If they want ideas from the community, they ought to let us know, and they'd have two dozen illustrated examples by the end of the day.

Hum did you find any clear official talks about this topic from the devs ?
The fact this has been talked before doesn't mean we should leave it as its current state.

About previous posts, we are all clear to agree we don't want mindless farm, and that is what it is NOW.
You have to farm 3 diferent mechs in order to cap one.
The suggestions I gave will requires you only to play your own mech to improve it.

[Protection]

Oh, I don't oppose more threads like this if they get the attention. Just pointing out why you're probably not getting replies. It's just another "Ah, that problem needs fixing too," thread. You're right, but there seems to be a bit of 'problem fatigue' on the forum.

[The Velociraptor]

Inconspicuous, on 02 November 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I guess it's because I prefer simulation games where pilot skill comes from practice and not unlocking 'helpers'.

Indeed, but this game is not a simulation.
It's stil la bit or grinding your mechs, just like you need to farm C Bills in order to buy a better mech and improve its fittings.
So the "all balanced - only skills required" will never happen here.

Though the mech trees are still extremly poorly made and require a revamp, otherwise, many players will pass on this game.

Cause buying 3x vairants + buying mechbays to fit them to max elite? Common...

[The Velociraptor]

agree with OP

[Dragonkindred]

I REALLLLLY don't want to grind through multiple variations of the same Mech, just to skill up.

Good job OP. I'll be keeping watch of these things now....

[Thomas Covenant]

These suggestions about seperate trees deal with the
"customization" vs "completeness" approach

The mechs already represent customization, the pilot's shouldn't ..Maybe , as the pilot is more perminant and the mechs can be cycled.

But I cannot ignore your seperate mech tree with things like acceleration vs top speed, sound fun!
Maybe as a module, or engine mod?

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 06 November 2012 - 12:50 AM.

[Rapiddescent]

Got to agree here. Specialisation would make it interesting. Rather than have to grind out all 3 to go Elite, just make the Elite levels more XP hungry.

Also - you get 4 mech bays without spending MC, now I will happily spend MC to get a Mech Stable happening, but I'd like to have 9 maxxed out mech's of all different kinds than 3x3 of the same class just to get the Elite unlocks.

[Noth]

Lavrenti, on 02 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Then how about you have slots for skills you've earned? There would be more skills than slots, and in the Pilot Lab you choose which skills you'll equip. So you can still level up in whatever you want but can't just take them all for every match.

This is how modules work. Mech can only use a certain number of modules thus there is your customization. What you want is already there, it just takes much longer to make use of.

[Draco Argentum]

Protection, on 02 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

We've had all kinds of threads and polls in agreement with these ideas. At this point, we're basically waiting on PGI to acknowledge that there is a problem, and then whether they want change it and how. If they want ideas from the community, they ought to let us know, and they'd have two dozen illustrated examples by the end of the day.

I already have a poll showing 80% of people don't like the current setup. 259 votes too so we're close to the point where PGI normally fixes stuff. Now we just need a front page full of XP system stinks posts and something might happen.

Lavrenti, your solution in the original post is a decent qick fix. The post where you added slots is pretty much where my solution went. Its a much larger change but overall more interesting. The current system is terrible from every angle. You even missed a few ways in which it is terrible.

[Attalward]

yep the current emch trees are pretty bland. They shoudl offer choices and not plain upgrades. And offfering choices we cna majke them more powerful and attractive. Since noone will have them all.

[The Velociraptor]

Draco Argentum, on 06 November 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

I already have a poll showing 80% of people don't like the current setup. 259 votes too so we're close to the point where PGI normally fixes stuff.

The current system is terrible from every angle.

Hopefully yes they will realize their mistake.

[Draco Argentum]

The Velociraptor, on 06 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Hopefully yes they will realize their mistake.

We can only hope. I think I'll put a link to the poll in my sig.

[The Velociraptor]

Draco Argentum, on 06 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

We can only hope. I think I'll put a link to the poll in my sig.

Well I would certainly appreciate that !