68 replies to this topic

[Gigaton]

Death Blossom, on 12 April 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

Have any of the devs posted the specs for the fearsome Mouseapult?

2 SRM 2 (1 RT/1 LT) with 1 ton of ammo in RT, 2 small lasers (1 per arm), 1 small pulse laser (LT) 2 medium lasers (1 per arm). 25 tons, 6/9 movement, 5 tons of armour, no additional heat sinks. Looks like miniature Mad Cat, very cute (Paul drew the concept art). It's Inner Sphere tech obviously (though recent design, as it mounts the mighty lostech small pulse laser).

Edited by Gigaton, 12 April 2012 - 06:20 AM.

[Evex]

Managed to get my hands on the CPLT-C1 Catapults technical readout and battle sheet. With that information I went back to rework the design a bit.

Single Heat Sink Version*

Model: CPLT-MC
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 63/65 tons
Armor: 10 tons standard
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 15
Weapons

2x LRM-10
2x Large Laser
2x Medium Laser

* This version essentially replaces the jump jets, LRM-15 and 2x medium lasers which fress up 20 tons. Unfortunately putting in the two large lasers and two LRM-10 take up that full 20 tons that was freed. It does leave a void of two tons free on the design. I don't have any of the rule books, so I have no idea on how much heat this design will generate. On another note I have the timber wolf(mad cat) battle sheet, but I lack its technical readout, so I'm unsure on how heavy the armor needs to be. I also lack the knowledge to create a double heat sink version, since I'm unsure of how much a double heat sink weighs. Though my guess its 2 tons after the 10 free ones for each one after, Also how much armor can be added per a ton.

[William Petersen]

Evex, on 15 April 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

* This version essentially replaces the jump jets, LRM-15 and 2x medium lasers which fress up 20 tons. Unfortunately putting in the two large lasers and two LRM-10 take up that full 20 tons that was freed. It does leave a void of two tons free on the design. I don't have any of the rule books, so I have no idea on how much heat this design will generate. On another note I have the timber wolf(mad cat) battle sheet, but I lack its technical readout, so I'm unsure on how heavy the armor needs to be. I also lack the knowledge to create a double heat sink version, since I'm unsure of how much a double heat sink weighs. Though my guess its 2 tons after the 10 free ones for each one after, Also how much armor can be added per a ton.

LRM 10 is 4 heat each, LLas is 8, and MLas is 3.

So an alpha would be a whopping 30 heat.

However, LRMs have a range increment* of 7 hexes, LLas 5, and MLas 3.

So at maximum range you can only fire LRMs (for 8 heat). once they get into Large Laser range, you can fire 1 LLas and the LRM 10s for 16 heat. Once they get in to really close range, you can fire the MLas and a LLas for 14 heat. Firing all lasers would be 22 heat, even with 2 more heat sinks that would leave you at 5 giving a -1 to your movement. You wouldn't fire your LRMs at close-range because they have a minimum range of 6 hexes.


* Range Increment(RI) determines ranges. Short range = 1 to (RI), Medium Range = (RI+1) to (2*RI), Long range = ((2*RI)+1) to (3*RI). There are some exceptions, but generally this holds. Also, none of this heat-figuring accounts for movement heat.

The trouble is the Large Laser just makes *so* much heat, it's really hard to fit it on a Tech. 1 build.

[Evex]

I see that actually interesting. I also just relized that I was trying to fit a round peg into a triangle hole. The Large Lasers essentially don't work on this build from a hard point view. This has caused me to refine the build once more.

Model: CPLT-MC
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 61/65 tons
Armor: 10 tons standard
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 15
Weapons

2x LRM-15
2x Medium Pulse Laser
2x Medium Laser

The weapon loadout now fits the actual hard points. Heat generated from weapons is 24, so after factoring in heat sinks the remaining heat is 9. The design has 4 tons of free space. An alternate design fallows below.

Model: CPLT-MC-1
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 62/65 tons
Armor: 10 tons standard
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 15
Weapons

2x LRM-15
1x Large Laser
2x Medium Laser

In hypotesis the two medium lasers in the center torso, should be in one two slot hard point for a beam weapon. This is enough room to slot a single large laser. Total heat from weapons is 24, after heat sinks heat is 9. There is three tons left in free space.

[Joe Davion 86]

do you have crit space left? if you do you could shove another HS or two in there for better heat dissipation.

[Evex]

Joe Davion 86, on 16 April 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

do you have crit space left? if you do you could shove another HS or two in there for better heat dissipation.

That is what the extra x free space is in the design. The problem is it doesn't actually solve the heat problem, since it only be 19 and 18 heat sinks for each respective design. Granted a double heat sink design would work better in the heat managment department. The problem is IS double heat sinks are three hardpoints in size, so for every one double heat sink, your replacing essentially three single hardpoint heat sinks. The problem is from the battle sheet the catapult doesn't look like it has any more empty hard points, unless the spots that say roll again, are actually free space.

[guardiandashi]

this is a mod from the -c1 catapult, using DHS and endosteel

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Catapult CPLT-C1-2
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Endo Steel 14 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 260 Fusion 6 13.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 184 pts Standard 0 11.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 30
Center Torso (Rear): 11
L/R Side Torso: 15 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 8/8
L/R Arm: 10 20/20
L/R Leg: 15 19/19
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 RA 5 16 5 9.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 LRM 15 LA 5 3 7.00
1 Large Laser RT 8 2 5.00
1 Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
CASE Equipment: LT 1 .50
4 Standard Jump Jets: 4 4.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 26 58 65.00
Crits & Tons Left: 20 .00

[Ian MacLeary]

Well, here's my take on it:

Spoiler

Catapult CPLT-C1-MacL

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E
Production Year: 3049
Cost: 13,892,725 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,685

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 325 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
2 Large Lasers
2 LRM-10s
1 Medium Pulse Laser
2 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 104 points 3.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 RT, 4 LA, 5 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 325 12.00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 211 12.00
Armor Locations: 2 CT, 3 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 21 32
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 15 23
L/R Torso (rear) 7
L/R Arm 10 20
L/R Leg 15 30

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-10 RT 4 2 5.00
LRM-10 LT 4 2 5.00
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2.00
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Large Laser RA 8 2 5.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Large Laser LA 8 2 5.00
@LRM-10 (24) RT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 0

Yeah, it's heavy on LosTech (or UnLosTech, if you will, since this stuff has been reintroduced by this time). It also has no critical space left, so no way to shoehorn anything more into it. I had to use XL Engine, Endo-steel, and FF Armor to get the tonnage for everything else. I chose to go with standard LL instead of ERs in order to smooth the heat curve a bit, and I put all of the ammo in one side torso in order to use CASE - which won't stop a mission kill, but would keep the 'mech intact in a campaign-level game, in the case of an ammo critical. However, with only 12 shots for each launcher, you might not have to worry so much about ammo explosions.

[Strum Wealh]

Using RemLab:

Type: Madapult Technology Base: Inner Sphere / 3050 Ruleset: Standard (5th edition) Tonnage: 65 Cost: 13,660,075 C-bills Battle Value: 1,283 Equipment Mass Internal Structure: Endo Steel 3.5 Engine: 325 12.0 Type: Fusion XL Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 0 Heat Sinks: 11 [22] 1.0 Gyro: Standard 4.0 Cockpit: 3.0 Armor Factor: 211 13.5 Internal
Structure Armor
Value Head 3 9 Center Torso 21 32 Center Torso (rear) 10 L/R Torso 15/15 20/20 L/R Torso (rear) 10/10 L/R Arms 10/10 20/20 L/R Legs 15/15 30/30 Weapons and Ammo Location Crits Tons Large Laser LA 2 5.0 Large Laser RA 2 5.0 Medium Laser LA 1 1.0 Medium Laser RA 1 1.0 Pulse Laser (Medium) LT 1 2.0 Machine Gun RT 1 0.5 Machine Gun CT 1 0.5 LRM 10 LT 2 5.0 LRM 10 RT 2 5.0 Ammo (MG) 200 RT 1 1.0 Ammo (LRM 10) 12 LT 1 1.0 Ammo (LRM 10) 12 RT 1 1.0 [color=#000000]
[/color]

BattleForce 2
MP Damage PB/M/L Overheat Class 5 5/4/1 4 H Armor/Structure Point Value Specials 5/3 13

Other than Standard vs FF armor (not enough criticals left), it seems pretty close to me... am I missing anything?

[EDMW CSN]

Just for giggles ~
32 heatsinks = just enough to fire all 4 large lasers.
If the pilot wish to risk overheat, he can open up with the 2 UAC-5s at range too

If he is lucky, he will do 32 + 20 damage.
Barring no jams and slight overheat.

===========================================

Die Shi

Model: AS7-DS
Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3052
Cost: 22,072,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,019

Chassis: Foundation Type 10X Standard Standard
Power Plant: Vlar 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Durellex Special Heavy Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
4 Nightwind Large Lasers
2 General Motors Nova-5 Ultra AC/5s
4 Hellion-V Medium Lasers
2 Coventry Five-Tube LRM-5s
Manufacturer: Independence Weaponry
Primary Factory: Al Na'ir
Communications System: Army Comm. Class 5
Targeting and Tracking System: Army Corporation Type 29K

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 152 points 10.00
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 3 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 304 19.00
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 48
Center Torso (rear) 13
L/R Torso 21 31
L/R Torso (rear) 11
L/R Arm 17 33
L/R Leg 21 42

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Large Lasers RA 16 4 10.00
Ultra AC/5 RA 1 5 9.00
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
2 Large Lasers LA 16 4 10.00
Ultra AC/5 LA 1 5 9.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
2 LRM-5s LT 4 2 4.00
2 ® Medium Lasers CT 6 2 2.00
@LRM-5 (24) LT - 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/5 (40) LT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 20
3 5 5 2 0 4 2 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 16 April 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Stormwolf]

This thread reminds me of the conversation between Focht and Waterly:

Quote

"Primus, I have taken to calling this model the Mad Cat. As with the Catapult 'Mech, the machine boasts two longrange missile pods, one on each side of the forward-thrust torso. It walks on bird's legs, which gives it a hopping-bobbing gait, though this pilot seems to have been able to conquer that tendency. Quite an achievement, with the low gravity on the asteroid. In addition to the standard Catapult features, two Marauder-type weapons pods have been added. They have large lasers over medium lasers. Two more medium lasers, one on each side of the torso and two machine guns mounted in the center torso, round out the weapons selection. Yes, a most impressive machine."

Indeed. With an army of such 'Mechs, we could make Blake's dream of a united humanity a reality in short order. Myndo stared through the image at Focht. "I shall order our armorers to modify our existing Catapults to this configuration."

Anger creased the Precentor Martial's brow for an instant, then disappeared as if banished by the force of his will. "I am afraid that is not possible, Primus. As you saw in the battletape, Phelan Kell attacked the machine but failed to damage it. Were we to create a 'Mech with such an array of weapons, we would be unable to armor it sufficiently. On the other hand, if we gave it the armor it needed, the 'Mech would be unable to move because of the current power-to-weight ratios available in our fusion engines. In short, either this 'Mech has incredibly light but durable armor, or it has a power plant of a design surpassing anything we have to offer."

Myndo's mouth went sour. New technology in the hands of someone other than ComStar! "That's terrible!"

Focht's grim nod echoed her concern. "It gets worse. The ranges at which these new 'Mechs were able to hit their targets is 300 to 400 percent better than what our current targeting and delivery system allows. It also appears that their heat compensators are much better or else their pilots can tolerate higher levels of heat because the rate of fire shown would have virtually fried any 'Mech known in the Successor States."

[Ian MacLeary]

Evex, on 16 April 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

That is what the extra x free space is in the design. The problem is it doesn't actually solve the heat problem, since it only be 19 and 18 heat sinks for each respective design. Granted a double heat sink design would work better in the heat managment department. The problem is IS double heat sinks are three hardpoints in size, so for every one double heat sink, your replacing essentially three single hardpoint heat sinks. The problem is from the battle sheet the catapult doesn't look like it has any more empty hard points, unless the spots that say roll again, are actually free space.

If it actually says 'Roll again' on the sheet, that's an empty critical slot. If it says 'Endo-steel' or 'Ferro-fibrous', it's taken by that particular technology but would be rerolled in the event of a critical landing there.

[Evex]

Well with the mechlab cleared up. I can actually get to designing some close to final versions, lucky for all you Timber wold (mad cat) fans. Note: these are considered final versions until we find out how engines work, so all engines are the stock CPLT-C1 catapults. There are not enough criticals to fit both ferro fibrous armor, and endo steel. You'll have to choose between the two.

*Single heat sink version.

Endo Steel version

Model: CPLT-MC
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 65/65 tons
Armor: 10 tons standard
Internal Structure: Endo Steel
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 17
equipment: C.A.S.E
Weapons

2x LRM 10 ( 1 ton ammo each)
2x Large Laser
1x Medium Pulse Laser
Ferro Fibrous version

Model: CPLT-MC
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 65/65 tons
Armor: 9 ton of ferro fibrous
Internal Structure: standard
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 15
equipment: C.A.S.E
Weapons

2x LRM 10 ( 1 ton ammo each)
2x Large Laser
1x Medium Pulse Laser

**Double Heat Sink

Endo Steel version

Model: CPLT-MC
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 65/65 tons
Armor: 10 tons standard
Internal Structure: Endo Steel
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 14
equipment: C.A.S.E
Weapons

2x LRM 10 ( 2 ton ammo each)
2x Large Laser
1x Medium Pulse Laser
1x Medium Laser

Model: CPLT-MC
Name: Matapult
Class: Heavy
Mass: 65/65 tons
Armor: 10 tons Ferro Fibrous
Internal Structure: standard
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: none
heatsinks: 14
equipment: C.A.S.E
Weapons

2x LRM 10 ( 1 ton ammo each)
2x Large Laser
1x Medium Pulse Laser

* Single Heat Sink explanation: Both the endo steel and ferro fibrous armor are distributed as 4/3 ratio across the arms and torso. The LA/RA having 4, while the LT/RT has 3. I also added case to both versions to prevent the LRM-10 ammo from going boom, this unfortunately prevents the ferro fibrous armor from reaching 10 tons. The endo steel version has slightly better heat efficiency due to having two extra heat sinks.

** Double Heat Sink explanation. The criticals for both endo steel and ferro fibrous armor are the same, as the single heat sink versions. There are only enough critical spots in the CLPT-C1 Catapult to fit four double heat sinks, when using ferro fibrous or endo steel. Ferro Fibrous version is able to get a full 10 tons of armor, while the endo steel version can squeeze in an additional two tons of ammo for the LRM-10s, and one medium laser. Ferro Fibrous version has slightly better heat dissipation due to not having the medium laser.

[Evex]

Yes, I'm sort of reviving this topic with an update on what I've come to call project: matapult. The reason you haven't seen any updates from me is that recently I've been busy. Well to be clear I've been busy playing around with different designs, which don't revolve around the matapult platform. I've also come to realize that the matapult has some glaring heating issues that need to be brought under control. I'm also trying to scale down the timber wolf (mad cat) a bit better into a 65 ton frame. This has lead me to a few discoveries in that you can only one of the timber wolfs main draws which is its armor, or its speed. Either way I'll probably build to different versions at some point focusing on those two aspects.

Just so you know how I go about designing this at current. I normal start with a stage one design, which I represent in the model number as S1. This is basically just taking the base catapult, and seeing how much of the design I can fit into it. After this I go into stage two, which is represented in the model number as S2. Here I play around with things like xl engine, ferro fiberous, endo steel and double heat sinks. I also make any changes to weapons, or heat sinks with the extra weight gained. I've also begun to build battle mechs under the philosophy of "build smarter, build cooler". Basically build the mech to run as cool as possible while mitigating losses in armor, speed, and attack power of a battlemech. I'm also using SSW on era specific rule set, and locking the tech available at 3049 with my more recent builds. Its most likely going to give me the most plausible, built for the matapult in MW:O. This last part I need help from you guys, but does anyone know where I can find the technical records for the Timber wolf (mad cat) Prime?

[Stormeris]

Mad Cat is ugly, i dont understand all this clan-fetishes >.> although i cant wait for the invasion so i could blow up some of them

[Victor Morson]

Yep, MWO is sure launching with a Mad Cat

[Cruxshadow]

None of the abomanations posted here can come even close to a MadCat Mk4 SavageWolf. Sadly they won't have anything like it to start with(if ever) so I will have to see about a C5 Catapult or some other long range fire support/sniper mech.

[Aelos03]

stormeris, on 06 May 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Mad Cat is ugly, i dont understand all this clan-fetishes >.> although i cant wait for the invasion so i could blow up some of them

How can you say that mad cat is beauty

Edited by Aelos03, 07 May 2012 - 04:32 AM.

[Stormeris]

Aelos03, on 07 May 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

How can you say that mad cat is beauty

I didnt say that mad cat is beauty, i said its ugly

[Odanan]

The mech IS beautiful:

http://www.isa.pl/me...201280x1024.jpg

http://wiki.mechlivi...8/81/Madcat.jpg

http://gallery.mcnee...size/madcat.jpg

And not only beautiful: it's fast, resilient and packs a punch. So you don't understand the fetish?