388 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

I've been playing Battletech (table-top) and all Mechwarrior computer series for the last 20 years, so I can say I'm a long time fan.

It's only me or more people think the Autocannons 2 and 5 are seriously underpowered? They weight too much, use ammo (which is always a risk) and deal a very small damage. OK, they are long range, but any mech can sustain single 2s and 5s of damage for a many turns.

The "Rapid-Fire" rule (two shots at the same time, with the risk of complications) improves the use of these weapons, but will it be implemented in the game? Please, devs, say yes!

I would suggest the developers to make it possible for the pilot to shoot again immediately after a shot with the autocannon: the second shot would be harder to hit and has a small chance to jam/destroy the gun.

[pursang]

In comparison with other ACs like LBX's and RACs? You bet.

[Omigir]

I dunno.. the Awesome's nipples look *REALLY* useful to me :3

(In all seriousness, i would *LOVE* to see the 2's and 5's loose some range for some more DMG. sniping with 2's and 5's is going to be.. negligible... at best..)

Edited by Omigir, 13 April 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Zerik]

As is, I've found clustering a large number of AC2's (3-4) and hammering the same area with consistant fire will drop most 'Mechs by the time the distance is closed between me and them works out rather well...But I imagine in an urban setting that AC2 toter would get splatted.

[Danko]

Even if damage is underpowered, knockback may be not Firing at someone not being able to return fire with precision should be a great advantage...

http://mwomercs.com/...e-defense-role/

Edited by Danko, 13 April 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[Judas Ebon Michaels]

If you take non-Mech combat units into account, I'd rather pepper a light vehicle with a smaller AC, than waste a Gauss slug.

[pursang]

Judas Ebon Michaels, on 13 April 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

If you take non-Mech combat units into account, I'd rather pepper a light vehicle with a smaller AC, than waste a Gauss slug.

Well, unfortunately MWO won't have any light vehicles for you to "pepper".

[ASC]

I think they are probarbly going to be useful in certain situations, as they will give long range aimed damage for less than PPC/Gauss

eg a light mech tries to flank you and chew up the catapault thats been giving you long range support. bouce a few AC rounds off it and you'll expose it enough for the catapult to finish it quickly and get back to helping you.

Having said that, i'm not really interseted in any mechs using AC/2 or AC/5 as their feature weapon.

[fearfactory]

Odanan, on 13 April 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

It's only me or more people think the Autocannons 2 and 5 are seriously underpowered?

The Clint frowns at this statement.

[SGT Unther]

IMO AC2 and AC5 are better suited for lighter mechs. Heck the Clint(40t) and the Sentinel(40t) had an AC5 mounted on them, and in all honesty those mechs will likely be fighting other recon mechs so against those mechs an AC5 would be effective. Heavy or Assault mechs should IMO mount an AC10 or AC20.

[Soviet Alex]

(Yawn) Another "buff AC2 & 5" thread. No ,they aren't competitive with PPCs or gauss rifles in Battletech. but we know nothing about how they'll play in MW-O, so let's wait & see.

[Naughtyboy]

well..i think AC2 and in some way AC was/is intended for AA usage ..look at the Bane 10 x uac2s...or rifleman or jagermech or blackjack paired small ACs good tracking abilites aimed for anti aircraft use. vs mechs i agree they might not be as useful in this game as in other
mechgames.

[pursang]

Soviet Alex, on 13 April 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

(Yawn) Another "buff AC2 & 5" thread. No ,they aren't competitive with PPCs or gauss rifles in Battletech. but we know nothing about how they'll play in MW-O, so let's wait & see.

Considering that the devs are sticking fairly close to the established canon and lore of BT/MW I wouldn't expect AC/2s and AC/5s to be much different in this game. And besides that, a little speculation in the absence of real information never hurt anyone.

[Mason Grimm]

I gotta say I disagree...

AC2 and AC5, while not very high damage weapons, allow a player to sit at an extremely long range and plink away. You trade damage for increased range.

[Malkenson]

Good range, and what about rate of fire? While AC's may not cycle as fast as a machine gun, they may still have a faster rate of fire than a laser or PPC. Light AC's and smaller LRM racks can also be used as supporting long range fire to help certain short range weapon units close with an enemy unit. Besides, the Dragon has an AC/5, so a light auto cannon is already on a Mech in the game.

[Victor Morson]

This is a serious concern - there was a long running thread on the Suggestions board here:
http://mwomercs.com/...uld-it-be-done/

It also got discussed in terms of a BV system here
http://mwomercs.com/...r-battle-value/

Long story short, I complete agree with you; their weight to damage and only very, very limited range advantage over other weapons is terrible; the options for balancing them mostly include increasing their ROF while maintaining higher damage, severe rock or giving them a niche (Living Legends AC2s and AC5s do bonus damage against aircraft and hovercraft, making them invaluable - if NPC aircraft are in MWO, they could serve the same role in theory).

Mason Grimm, on 13 April 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

I gotta say I disagree...

AC2 and AC5, while not very high damage weapons, allow a player to sit at an extremely long range and plink away. You trade damage for increased range.

AC5s have similar ranges to PPCs, for half the damage; AC2s only have a tiny few hex range advantage over other long-range weapons and definitely not enough to justify a weapon that does the damage of a small laser for 6 tons. If you look at LRMs, for example, you are talking several times as much damage for the same weight in the same range bracket. The same goes for other long range weapons; their TT damage/range is nearly as effective as you'd think due to range.

Really that's the size of it: They're overweight. If they had only weighed 3 tons or so, they'd probably been considered a decent weapon since you could put multiples on a 'mech. As it stands AC/2s and 5s weigh so much they become the "main gun" of 'mechs and take a lot out of them making their tiny range advantage not count for much.

Edited by Victor Morson, 13 April 2012 - 04:55 AM.

[Shai tan]

Nipples? Useless? Everyone knows ya gotta have grease nipples on a Mech!!!! ;p

[Vandul]

Add some kind of penetration factor to small bore AC's and they become useful. Changing the game mechanics for this probably isnt worth it.

[ice trey]

Individually, I'll agree they're not much more than a stop-gap.

Still, I'll tell you one thing about low-cal autocannons: They're all about keeping heat to a minimum.

Sure, you can fire off an LRM10 rack, but you're going to be making 4 heat and only hitting with 6 of those missiles on average. Plus, you'll only get 12 volleys to the ton, while an AC5 gets 20 shots per ton, and doesn't waste potential damage from missed missiles. Sure, you could use a PPC, but you'll be racking up 10 heat in the process. That might not be a big deal for a light 'mech (or even some mediums), if we're playing in the pre-Double Heat-sink era, the low-cal ACs mean that not only can you reach out and touch someone, but you can do so without fear of roasting your ride.

Consider, for a second, the Rifleman (2X LLas; 2X Medium Las; 2X AC5) - It's not got enough heat sinks to fire off it's whole armament safely. In fact, an alpha strike even while standing still is enough to risk an ammo explosion. It can only reliably fire the two autocannons per turn (Coupled with a Large laser or a brace of mediums), but those ACs are really the best way to avoid shutdown. Also worth considering is the difference between the Dragon and the Grand Dragon. The Grand Dragon swaps out the Dragons' old AC5 for a PPC, sure, but that PPC means that the dragon now has to watch it's heat curve - Firing it at the same time as the LRM10 mean that you're building up heat each time. The vanilla Dragon can pummel opponents with that AC5 all day, even if it takes two engine hits, spilling ridiculous amounts of heat into the 'mech.

There's a time and a place for low-caliber ACs, they have a bad rep because they're way heavier than the energy weapons and don't have the wow-factor of a wall of missiles or big-bore ACs, but as a ranged weapon that is both ammo and heat efficient, you can't really go wrong.

Of course, when the age of the Ultra Autocannons and gauss rifles rolls out, then yes, the low-cal ACs will become very redundant, very quickly. It's something the tabletop tried to remedy by making specialty ammo types, but they're still not very popular weapons systems unless someone uses random 'mech tables.

Edited by ice trey, 13 April 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[Mechteric]

While its true in most prior Mechwarrior games these 2 AC's have been woefully underpowered, I think Mechwarrior Living Legends makes a somewhat decent case for their usefulness. They still aren't much use against heavy and assault mechs, but used against lights/mediums and aircraft they are quite potent, especially due to their range. Hopefully MWO can use a similar formula if not improve upon it.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 13 April 2012 - 05:10 AM.