518 replies to this topic

[UncleKulikov]

William Petersen, on 16 April 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I can't imagine wanting to drive a tank. They're so, so easy to immmobilize.

Or destroy with inferno rounds or a flamethrower; at least in tabletop if vehicles overheat they die.

[William Petersen]

UncleKulikov, on 16 April 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Or destroy with inferno rounds or a flamethrower; at least in tabletop if vehicles overheat they die.

Mmm, yes. Roast Tanker. Delicious.

[The unnamed one]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

That my friend is neither a Biped nor a Quad, also it is an abomination to the names Battletech and Mechwarrior. Here is a challenge for you, find a mech that exists in either Mechwarrior video games or the Battletech Tabletop systems that is over 100 tons

the Ares used to be avalible for the table top through Wizkidsbut not anymore and the Ares mech is the only canonical tripodal mech according to sarna.

Edited by The unnamed one, 16 April 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Fetladral]

Quads would make great area denial mechs. Especially the later ones. I almost want to say the Quads in BT were around before they ever came out in anime. I'm probably wrong about that. But any anime I've seen with Quads in it is from 95 or later. Most are from 2000 or later.

[Alphadeadone]

It would be nice to see them. Unsure if I would use them but having the option there also brings the battletech universe to life.

[Skylarr]

The unnamed one, on 16 April 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Ares mech 125-135 ton mech and Long tom cannon

1st) The Ares is not a quad. It is a Tripodal Chassis. It in production in 3132 (that is 83 years from now). Only a select number of pilots ar choosen to pilot it.

2nd) None of its varients carry a Long Tom.

Why do people keep bringing up Mech Types that are years or centuries away.

verybad, on 16 April 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Yeah, none of the Quad unseens are nearly as popular as mechs like the Warhammer and Marauder. A Goliath or Scorpion release would be filled with requests for those two mechs more than kudos for the quad.

The Scorpian is allot more common than you think.

[JadeTimberwolf]

The unnamed one, on 16 April 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

the Ares used to be avalible for the table top through Wizkidsbut not anymore and the Ares mech is the only canonical tripodal mech according to sarna.

What sourcebook for the Battletech Tabletop game was it introduced in? I'll give you a hint, non it was specifically made for the Clix game which in undoubtably the worst place to even look at for anything resembling canon, and where does sarna say it is canon? For that matter where does sarna say that they only have canon on the site? Not to mention as both myself and Skylarr have pointed out, not a Quad.

[Watchit]

Fetladral, on 16 April 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Quads would make great area denial mechs. Especially the later ones. I almost want to say the quads in BT were around before they ever came out in anime. I'm probably wrong about that. But any anime I've seen with quads in it is from 95 or later. Most are from 2000 or later.

Well, there were quad tanks in the Ghost in the Shell manga that came out in 1990, but those "meks" are a completely different breed of animal from battletech mechs, so I don't know if that counts or not

[Motionless]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

What sourcebook for the Battletech Tabletop game was it introduced in? I'll give you a hint, non it was specifically made for the Clix game which in undoubtably the worst place to even look at for anything resembling canon

It's canon -- it can't be said more simply than that.

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

and where does sarna say it is canon?

All Sarna articles are by default canon and have notices on the pages if they are not.

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

For that matter where does sarna say that they only have canon on the site?

Why ask a question like this if you haven't even bothered to check what sarna says about this issue? You're just making a gamble that Sarna doesn't have canon policies or that the person you're arguing with will take your word for it and not bother to check Sarna's policies on the canonicity of material that can be posting on their wiki and how non-canon material needs to be marked as such.

So to answer your question: Right in their policies.

[The unnamed one]

Skylarr, on 16 April 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

1st) The Ares is not a quad. It is a Tripodal Chassis. It in production in 3132 (that is 83 years from now). Only a select number of pilots ar choosen to pilot it.

2nd) None of its varients carry a Long Tom.

Why do people keep bringing up Mech Types that are years or centuries away.



The Scorpian is allot more common than you think.

I know that and I was pointing out a mech that is over 100 tons and that arilery pieces can be mounted on mech chassies

Motionless, on 16 April 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

It's canon -- it can't be said more simply than that.


All Sarna articles are by default canon and have notices on the pages if they are not.


Why ask a question like this if you haven't even bothered to check what sarna says about this issue? You're just making a gamble that Sarna doesn't have canon policies or that the person you're arguing with will take your word for it and not bother to check Sarna's policies on the canonicity of material that can be posting on their wiki and how non-canon material needs to be marked as such.

So to answer your question: Right in their policies.

Thank you

Edited by The unnamed one, 16 April 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Twilight Sparkle]

I'd have to say yes to this one, but I think the reasons for why are given.

[Victor Morson]

Teulisch, on 15 April 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

i suspect the problem is that in this era, we only have two quads, both unseen, plus they would require additional programming to allow for making those 2 potential models much more expensive to include. while we may see them in the long run, i doubt they will be availible during the first few months of the game because of how overworked the programmers must be.

This is the largest problem. There's just not many quads to go around in 3049, and those that are might not really be wise to include in the game for legal issues.

I have no problem with quads in concept and some later quads are pretty neat but this is really kind of the number one problem.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Motionless, on 16 April 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Why ask a question like this if you haven't even bothered to check what sarna says about this issue? You're just making a gamble that Sarna doesn't have canon policies or that the person you're arguing with will take your word for it and not bother to check Sarna's policies on the canonicity of material that can be posting on their wiki and how non-canon material needs to be marked as such.

So to answer your question: Right in their policies.

I think you may wish to reread the last part of my post you quoted.

"For that matter where does sarna say that they only have canon on the site?"

The answer to that question is nowhere. Also while on the subject of canon, I had this conversation with another poster and I have to agree with them as to what constitutes canon. Canon is constituted by what is written in the novels and supported by the Battletech Tabletop game which following the mech creation rules of the system no mech can ever be made above 100 tons which if that is canon therefor the Ares can not be canon because it contridicts canon.

The unnamed one, on 16 April 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I know that and I was pointing out a mech that is over 100 tons and that arilery pieces can be mounted on mech chassies

Thank you

I never said that Mechs can't carry artillery pieces just that a quad is incapable of mounting 2 artillery weapons because they lack sufficent space, let alone 1 longtom, they are incapable of mounting a 30crit weapon spread between 2 areas without making it so that they don't have the weight to do so. As to Ares being canonical I still stand by it not being able to be canon, see upper half of this post for reason.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 16 April 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

While I would NEVER pilot a quad (similar to how I would never use a Hatchet or Sword), I am not totally against them. Chances are they even if they are in the game, it would be at best one out of 10 or 20 players actually using them, and would become almost more of a novelty than anything. Of course, those who are really in support of them (likewise with those who prefer melee) I wouldn't mind if you guys got to eat your cake, too. Different opinions and that cake just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Twilight Sparkle]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

What sourcebook for the Battletech Tabletop game was it introduced in? I'll give you a hint, non it was specifically made for the Clix game which in undoubtably the worst place to even look at for anything resembling canon, and where does sarna say it is canon? For that matter where does sarna say that they only have canon on the site? Not to mention as both myself and Skylarr have pointed out, not a Quad.

I have my TechManual right here. It has construction rules for Quad mechs as well as standard. Under the 'Design Process' on page 45, for example, it brings up choosing 'Type (biped or four-legged). It refers to this as Quad in other sections, such as the Critical Space table on the top of the same page. Rules for using them in play, of course, are in the same book as the standard ruleset.

[Motionless]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

I think you may wish to reread the last part of my post you quoted.

"For that matter where does sarna say that they only have canon on the site?"

You're just wordgaming here. Sarna ONLY posts canon unless marked otherwise, and the Ares article has no such notification (because it's canon.)

Quote

I had this conversation with another poster and I have to agree with them as to what constitutes canon.

Cool, you can make up your own rules for what you consider 'canon' if you want, but of course it comes down to who actually owns the intellectual property -- I think most other people understand this.

So when you talk about canon, you should make sure and tell people you're talking about your own house version of 'canon' and not what is decided by the people who own and create the Battletech universe.

Edited by Motionless, 16 April 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Twilight Sparkle, on 16 April 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

I have my TechManual right here. It has construction rules for Quad mechs as well as standard. Under the 'Design Process' on page 45, for example, it brings up choosing 'Type (biped or four-legged). It refers to this as Quad in other sections, such as the Critical Space table on the top of the same page. Rules for using them in play, of course, are in the same book as the standard ruleset.

Not sure what your getting at. If you are saying that Quads are a viable option I never said that they weren't, I have only said that the Ares a Clix era mech is not a Quad because it does not fit the classification a a Quad.

Motionless, on 16 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

You're just wordgaming here. Sarna ONLY posts canon unless marked otherwise, and the Ares article has no such notification (because it's canon.)


Cool, you can make up your own rules for what you consider 'canon' if you want, but of course it comes down to actually owns the intellectual property -- I think most other people understand this.

So when you talk about canon, you should make sure and tell people you're talking about your own house version of 'canon' and not what is decided by the people who own and create the Battletech universe.

How do you explain the fact that canon says mechs are only made from 10 tons up to 100 tons but the ares breaks away from canon?

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 16 April 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[Arctic Fox]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

The answer to that question is nowhere. Also while on the subject of canon, I had this conversation with another poster and I have to agree with them as to what constitutes canon. Canon is constituted by what is written in the novels and supported by the Battletech Tabletop game which following the mech creation rules of the system no mech can ever be made above 100 tons which if that is canon therefor the Ares can not be canon because it contridicts canon.

This is incorrect. As of Jihad: Final Reckoning's release there are canon rules for 'Mechs up to 200 tons and a single canon Superheavy 'Mech design at 150 tons. So far that's for biped and quad 'Mechs, though it seems like we'll get rules to account for the Ares' tripodal design in the Era Specific rules section of Interstellar Operations.

The Ares is a curious case, since while it is canon, it has not been incorporated into full BattleTech canon until the BattleTech timeline actually catches up with the Dark Age. But it's really only a matter of time.

Edited by Arctic Fox, 16 April 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Motionless]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

How do you explain the fact that canon says mechs are only made from 10 tons up to 100 tons but the ares breaks away from canon?

I explain that fact by pointing out that you're posting a question is not valid, because you've set up the question in a way where there can only be one answer (a wrong answer.)


Long story short -- Herbert A. Beas II, current Line Developer for Battletech, says Ares is canon. JadeTimberwolf says Ares isn't canon.

Therefor: Ares is canon.

[Twilight Sparkle]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Not sure what your getting at. If you are saying that Quads are a viable option I never said that they weren't, I have only said that the Ares a Clix era mech is not a Quad because it does not fit the classification a a Quad.

How do you explain the fact that canon says mechs are only made from 10 tons up to 100 tons but the ares breaks away from canon?

Ah, I misunderstood what you were seeking there. I thought you were trying to say Quads were not canon.