101 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

LRMS could stand to have their heat doubled almost....though that might be a bit harsh...

[MechNedra]

Dropped in to start playing again now that it is open beta to come into this patch, and 4 LRM boats on every team, it stopped being fun, thanks for wasting my premium time PGI, I don't normally complain, but this is the same LRM crap you fixed two months ago. Enjoy the last of my money for a while.

[Ras187]

MechNedra, on 07 November 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Dropped in to start playing again now that it is open beta to come into this patch, and 4 LRM boats on every team, it stopped being fun, thanks for wasting my premium time PGI, I don't normally complain, but this is the same LRM crap you fixed two months ago. Enjoy the last of my money for a while.

4 lrms boats, no no. All are allmost lrm boats, now that the cat is out of the bag everybody want to try it...u can stick lrm in most mechs. so we are just atm trowing missiles at each others heads. even made a macro auto fire lrms, Eat while Watching everthing get smashed, not very entertaining, = Not Mutch Role ware Left, Pretty mutch smashed one of there oven Pilars of the game, Witch was ohhh so important... abit sad

[Child3k]

OriginalTibs, on 07 November 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Beta is when we are testing new features.Not all functionality is implemented in beta. If all functionality is in the game we are in the final stages of beta. When all fuctionality has been thoroughly tested we arrive at a release candidate.

Actually - usually the beta-step in software engineering/development starts when in fact the software is feature complete. But I can see and understand, that different companies define their milestones differently.

What needs to be said clearly is: Open Beta for a f2p based game is very much like the "final" release. Meaning: Especially on the f2p base the game has to be suitable for new players. So my main point is: A working and effective matchmaking is key for the game and should've been in place - at least to the extent that it would just need some fine tuning - when open beta started.

So - now. Can we please get the LRM trajectory fixed and I'm talkin' yesterday.

Edited by Child3k, 07 November 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[SL the Pyro]

Throwing in my support for the "fix the trajectories and damage" crowd.

-Don't make the Artemis IV missiles home in so well on enemies that aren't in the 'Mech's line of sight. If they are in the line of sight, then that kind of homing is fine, because the unfortunate target deserves it for being stupid enough to walk out in plain view of a LRMboat. Otherwise, keep the homing it as it was before Artemis IV was introduced. The missile grouping is fine.
-Make the superior homing only work on not-in-line-of-sight targets if they are NARC'd/TAG'd. This would actually give NARCers/TAGers a reasonable role on the battlefield.
-For God's sake, reduce the LRM damage back to 1 per missile. The extra damage was acceptable before due to that there weren't many ways to make sure all the missiles hit, but now that there are ways to improve missile tracking, there's no need for the damage inflation.

I'm trying to think like the devs here in that their ideas are as close to the MechWarrior canon as possible. I would honestly not consider these actions a nerf, I would consider them balancing. If people still whine about LRMs after this, they can just wait for the ECM.

[Tevesh]

Since this is the forum where all the LRM whining is going on I think I should post this here. In the Sarna wiki entry about Artemis IV (found here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Artemis_IV ) it says:

"the firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy."

As far as I can tell, all LRMs in this patch get an increase inaccuracy if using Artemis. If you have no line of sight, LRM's should behave as normal LRMs. This would seem reasonable to me. As it is, I can't play the game right now because every time LRMs explode on my screen I crash to desktop and with 6-8 LRM boats per team I can't get away from the explosions. Oh well, guess I'll go play something else for a week or two while this gets fixed.

[Stingray Productions]

Thanks for the awareness, we await patiently.

[Shiney]

Can we get another missile fix please, LRM's are like they were 4 months ago again

[Wrayeth]

Shiney, on 15 November 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Can we get another missile fix please, LRM's are like they were 4 months ago again

TBH, there was nothing wrong with LRMs 4 months ago. They were an effective fire-support weapon, and my triple LRM15 AS7-D-DC would usually end up with top damage and top (or nearly so) XP. And that was without Artemis! I'd recommend you try something with two Artemis-enhanced LRM20's. It won't be the same as the previous (-ly broken) LRMs, but it's still very effective at dealing damage.

[Justin Xang Allard]

Garth Erlam, on 06 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

We're aware that missiles are counting as zero damage, and have a fix incoming within an hour or so. Stay tuned!

Thank you for looking in to this, and taking the time to take care of it.

[Kommisar]

FWIW (which is, admittedly little), the LRMs seem just fine right now. They are a threat; I don't want to take a volley of LRM fire on my Atlas. But they are not flying death; my Atlas can take a reasonable volley and not be a burning, crippled hulk.

They are what they are meant to be, a support weapon. A weapon for softening up targets to give you (or your team) an edge once the main line engagement begins. You can dish out a good amount of damage with them, but you are not going to rack up kills with them. Just lots of assists and some componenet kills. If you are upset that your kill rate dropped with your LRM boat, well you need to switch to a different play style. Grab a front line mech and get kills.

Or, if you want your indirect artillery fire to cause serious harm, wait for the Arrow IV system to come out and enjoy launching mech-killing cruise missiles.

The LRM was never intended to be the mainstay weapon system of BT or MWO. It had a brief period, between patches, where it ruled the battlefield and players loaded up on them. Especially in organized groups that could loadup on them and coordinate their launches. But the days of being able to pop an assault mech with one volley is over.

As for the Artemis System, it was way over-powered on launch. Now, I'm not entirely certain as to what it is doing or if I feel it is worth the weight on my mech.

[LordSkippy]

Kommisar, on 15 November 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

LRMs seem just fine right now. They are a threat; I don't want to take a volley of LRM fire on my Atlas.

That's where you're wrong. They are not a threat. The only time I even bother trying to break lock is when I'm not currently engaged in firing on a target and cover is just a few steps away. The amount of missiles that hit in the typical volley does very minimal damage, and isn't worth worrying about. People have started stripping AMS from their Mechs because of this. Combined with how ridiculously easy it is to break lock and avoid all damage altogether, LRMs are not worth the tonnage, and really not worth the rearm cost. For long ranges, you're better off with a ballistic, large laser, or PPC. They do more damage, are easier to use effectively, and harder for the target to avoid once fired. LRMs do have indirect fire, but with the damage output as it is now, your team is better off with the scout concentrating on hit and run attacking and not keeping target lock for LRM boats.

[SmithMPBT]

LRMs are in line with the damage output of other weapons now. People use the spread argument to claim there not balanced. Well LRMs spread, its what they do. They have SUPER long range for a purpose. To soften the target before engagement with other weapons. If you give a LRM20 a hardlock, super range and a tight cluster then theres no point in having anything but missile boats.

[LordSkippy]

SmithMPBT, on 15 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

LRMs are in line with the damage output of other weapons now. People use the spread argument to claim there not balanced. Well LRMs spread, its what they do. They have SUPER long range for a purpose. To soften the target before engagement with other weapons. If you give a LRM20 a hardlock, super range and a tight cluster then theres no point in having anything but missile boats.

That is blatantly not the case. On paper their damage may look to be in line or even over powered, but it isn't working out that way in practice. The only people saying they are "just fine" are those that think that all Mechs should be brawlers and are glad to see LRM damage and use drop. For the tonnage used, time investment to get payload to target, and the various ways to mitigate (AMS) or negate (break lock and cover) their damage, they are very poor choice of weapon to take. And that doesn't even take into account the rearm costs.

Your arguments are very old, and have been refuted several times. Their range is actually shorter than long range energy and ballistic weapons. LRMs are not effective past their max range, while other weapons types still deal damage past their max range, just at reduced amounts. Also, the spread does effect the balancing of LRMs. Too much spread, and you greatly reduce the amount of damage. On paper, an LRM15 with a spread that delivers an average 80% hit rate in a volley will deal 20 damage across the entire target. A spread with that delivers an average 60% hit rate will 15 damage across the entire target. That's a 25% damage reduction just by adjusting the missile spread. 20 and 15 damage sounds like a lot, and for an energy or ballistic weapons, it would be. But remember, it is across the entire target. You're really only taking 2 to 5 damage in any area. For the tonnage, a group of small lasers are much more effective.

And apparently the devs also do not believe they are "just fine," since they will be getting a small boost to damage in the next patch (from 1.7 to 1.8). They should have made a conservative reduction of damage from 2.0 to 1.9 when they nerfed, instead of going to 1.7. But everyone knows how MMOs work; over nerf, then slightly boost, repeat small boosting until the numbers start saying what you want.

Full disclosure: I'm a cat pilot. I'm haven't ran LRMs since open beta, running a low tech laser based build for C-bill grinding (cheap repairs). Judging from the damage I've received from LRMs, I'm not considering using them until I start fearing them on the battlefield again. When you can safely ignore the incoming LRMs to finish off the Mech you're brawling against or cross a large open area, that says they are not worth it. I'm going to stick to energy/ballistic/SRM based builds, or switch to another chassis entirely.

[SmithMPBT]

Do you remember what a match was like before the Nerf? 5+LRM boats wait for a scouts LOS. LOS confirmed. 5 Boats fire, dead mech, next target. 5 Boats fire, dead mech, next target, and so on. Enter the Nerf. Now it takes about 2 volleys from 5 mechs. IMO thats a fair reduction, 1 extra click isn't too bad. More importantly, we start to see a mix of mech types again. Brawlers, Laser Boats, LRM Boats, Scouts.

[Sprouticus]

A 0.1 dmg/missile bump has been confirmed. This removes 33% of the nerf they put in place.

I was on the fence about whether LRM's were working as intended, I have noticed that they are just not super viable right now.


Going gtom 1.7=1.8 seems like just enough of a bump to put naked (non Artemis/TAg/NARC) lrms's to be decent without the LRMs with help being OP.

[Battlefinger]

Anyone suggested leaving the damage, but sharply decreasing the firing rate? Like, 2.5* as long as it is at the moment? I think that'd be a pretty decent solution.

[Miken]

SmithMPBT, on 16 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Do you remember what a match was like before the Nerf? 5+LRM boats wait for a scouts LOS. LOS confirmed. 5 Boats fire, dead mech, next target. 5 Boats fire, dead mech, next target, and so on. Enter the Nerf. Now it takes about 2 volleys from 5 mechs. IMO thats a fair reduction, 1 extra click isn't too bad. More importantly, we start to see a mix of mech types again. Brawlers, Laser Boats, LRM Boats, Scouts.

After group size was reduced the number of LRM boats decresed. Not because LRM was nerfed, no! 20 November you will see 4-6 LRM boats but only in group battles.

[SmithMPBT]

Sprouticus, on 16 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

A 0.1 dmg/missile bump has been confirmed. This removes 33% of the nerf they put in place.

I was on the fence about whether LRM's were working as intended, I have noticed that they are just not super viable right now.


Going gtom 1.7=1.8 seems like just enough of a bump to put naked (non Artemis/TAg/NARC) lrms's to be decent without the LRMs with help being OP.

Great, a Zombie Dual LRM Atlas should go from a current 450+ average damage to 700 when its hard to get a stock AS7-D to 500.

[gbrown]

I was in a match yesterday and watched my missles hit several targets and watched the display register the hits as their armor lit up in the target display and at the end of the match recieved 5 assists with 0 damage. Still needs fixing!