89 replies to this topic

[HavoK 99]

I tend to think of it like say world of tanks you cant run the biggest t10 tank without a prem acct even with prem you only make like 2-6k most times. Without premium in WoT you start loosing money around tier 7 maybe 8 if your real good.
I dont see why people think they should be able to run a atlas with endo and DHS and whatever weps they want and think it should make them 100s of thousands.

[Mechwarrior413183]

I guess you could look at like WoT where for an average or maybe sub-average player the high tiers are not sustainable without playing low tiers, so here it's ammo+upgrade heavy mechs as the unsustainable and standard energy as the money makers. AC costs aren't that bad, so I guess it's just missiles(maybe Gauss) free players are priced out of without laserboats to fall back on.

Edited by Mockeryangel, 06 November 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[Katface]

A few weeks back on NGNG podcast I believe someone asked Paul what he thinks of particular "Boat" builds. His response was something along the lines of "There will always be players who will find the best possible builds mathematically, and we cannot stop that, however we may make it economically not profitable."

If this was the goal to remove SSRM / LRM boats from becoming farming loadout's I don't see a problem with that. You simply go farm in a mech that is cheaper to repair and rearm. Once P2 of Matchmaking drops and you are back to 8v8 premade drops you can run your neutral or cbill loss mechs when the games are more important to you and have some money to fall back on. Until then I do not have a problem with the Dev's making boating costly and inefficient as a way to nerf the over-usage of these builds.

-Kat

[LogicSol]

Katface, on 06 November 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

A few weeks back on NGNG podcast I believe someone asked Paul what he thinks of particular "Boat" builds. His response was something along the lines of "There will always be players who will find the best possible builds mathematically, and we cannot stop that, however we may make it economically not profitable."

If this was the goal to remove SSRM / LRM boats from becoming farming loadout's I don't see a problem with that. You simply go farm in a mech that is cheaper to repair and rearm. Once P2 of Matchmaking drops and you are back to 8v8 premade drops you can run your neutral or cbill loss mechs when the games are more important to you and have some money to fall back on. Until then I do not have a problem with the Dev's making boating costly and inefficient as a way to nerf the over-usage of these builds.

-Kat

Well said.

[gregsolidus]

So what about builds which were designed to boat like the Catapult and Trebuchet?

Edited by gregsolidus, 06 November 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[LogicSol]

gregsolidus, on 06 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

So what about builds which were designed to boat like the Catapult and Trebuchet?

They are more expensive to run.
You have 4 free mech bays, put a cheap mech in one of them.

[Hellcat420]

gregsolidus, on 06 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

So what about builds which were designed to boat like the Catapult and Trebuchet?

you will have to go play a real mw game

[Draco Argentum]

LogicSol, on 06 November 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Play a cheaper mech. You can also save CB by not rearming, as you get 75% of your ammo back for free.

You don't really think that is good design do you?


Or do you?

[Hellcat420]

Draco Argentum, on 06 November 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

You don't really think that is good design do you?


Or do you?

lol its a good design if you want to chase away your customers.

[LogicSol]

Draco Argentum, on 06 November 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

You don't really think that is good design do you?


Or do you?

The only reason it's a "bad design" is because it doesn't play to peoples sense of entitlement.

Somethings are more expensive than others, these things are not needed to win.
These things are still accessible to free player, only require more effort to obtain and maintain.

Missile-boats are not Cb farming mechs. I'd be fine with certain mechs losing money even if there were no premium available.

[Draco Argentum]

LogicSol, on 06 November 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

The only reason it's a "bad design" is because it doesn't play to peoples sense of entitlement.

Somethings are more expensive than others, these things are not needed to win.
These things are still accessible to free player, only require more effort to obtain and maintain.

Missile-boats are not Cb farming mechs. I'd be fine with certain mechs losing money even if there were no premium available.

No. I specifically asked about the free reload. It circumvents your vaunted cbill balancing mechanism in a stupid way.

[LogicSol]

Draco Argentum, on 06 November 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

No. I specifically asked about the free reload. It circumvents your vaunted cbill balancing mechanism in a stupid way.

Er, what?
Personally I'd like to see a 25% free rearm with cheaper ammo, so there is more variance from conserving ammo, but the 75% mark lets free players still be competitive if they run out of money to repair.
Don't really see anything bad about it.

[James The Fox Dixon]

LogicSol, on 06 November 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Er, what?
Personally I'd like to see a 25% free rearm with cheaper ammo, so there is more variance from conserving ammo, but the 75% mark lets free players still be competitive if they run out of money to repair.
Don't really see anything bad about it.

Now see here, you think the economy is fine, so now you're suggesting that it isn't fine?

[Holcane]

Play Safer, Don't use LRMs to start with.

[Elizander]

LogicSol, on 06 November 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

It's simple really.
If your mech is too expensive for you to maintain, play a cheaper one.
Use the cheap one to build up money to run your expensive one.
Alternatively you can sell your expensive one to buy a lower cost one, or find a configuration that costs less money to run.
You can also use the free 75% rearm to save money.
You can even forgo repairing your mech completely, as no matter what it is repaired to a usable state for free.
Are you handicapped, yes. Will that let you save up money while using your own mech? yes.

You can also support that game and buy premium time.

Indeed, if you are handicapped (looking at it selfishly) you blow up more, right? But you're not repairing or rearming anything anyway, so it's okay to explode.

Until they penalize your earnings by going in with an incomplete mech (% reduction in earnings depending on current state of mech) then this is another good way to earn.

Edited by Elizander, 06 November 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating...

...absolutely under no circumstances should a player ever loose money regardless of chassis, endo, ferro, DHS, ballistics/missiles, ammo, etc. unless they've TK'ed or heavily damaged friendlies, pretty much the only situation warranting punishing the player. Barring TKs, there should absolutely always be forward progress. It doesn't matter if the pace of progress is glacial, but once a person earns their ride, it should never ever become a liability within the game economy.

If I weren't a fan of the series, it would be a sure fire way to turn me off from the game.

[FerretGR]

http://mwomercs.com/...age__p__1334941

[Lanessar]

There is a problem of risk versus reward. In another thread I ran three matches for comparing winnings versus repair (NOT rearm).

All three were winning matches. During none of the three was I disabled or killed.

Two matches I participated in and received damage (also kills and assists), one I didn't (and did about 87 damage). I earned about 25% more Cbills for NOT participating.

That shouldn't be possible. Expensive tech or not. The founder's bonus netted me about 7K more than approximately the same stats in a trial mech, because of the repair cost. I'm willing to make allowances for the XL engine I was running, but...

Anyhow, I don't have a problem with repair costs. But participation should be rewarded a heckuva lot more.

Edited by Lanessar, 14 December 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[Dirkdaring]

People don't understand. It's supposed to be like this. They want you buying premium time.

That's it. Period. It's not some long complicated 3 paragraph answer.

It's to make you want to buy premium time.

[FrostPaw]

I'm going to assume you're a free player with no founders/hero mechs or premium time. So your contribution to the game is essentially your mech in the match maker. Nothing wrong with that, it's a free game, everyone needs team mates, however being a free player means you do have drawbacks which make it attractive to spend money.

In this instance you can still play your own mechs, just not every match. You can sustain your own mechs by occasionally playing in trial mechs or you can pay PGI for some MC and then make a boat load of cash even if you lose. It's more work without premium because thats the idea behind premium, but it's still optional, you are not prevented from playing your own mechs, you just can't play them every match.

If you are a free player, you shouldn't be using any upgrades or lrms, both are expensive to maintain and will hurt you win or lose without premium/founders/hero. Smaller mechs are cheaper to maintain too, if you're a free player in a Heavy or Assault, you'll need to perform more reliably than in a light or medium. Not saying this is right, but it is how it is, lights and mediums make decent money because you have the potential to do everything heavies and assaults can but if you don't its less punishing on your bank balance.

Being a Free player entitles you to play the game without spending money, you can do that just fine. If you want to continue playing a free game your way for weeks or months at a time, I can't see why you wouldn't be willing to buy some mc for that kind of entertainment. People order pizza and see a movie for far less time spent enjoying them.