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Repair Bills Discourage Playing With Own Mechs


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#41 Kommisar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

200K CBills after a match? That has to be a bug. I run Atlases and I've never racked up that size of a repair / rearm bill!!!

The real hurt, for me, is armor. Armor repair costs are massive. I costs more to repair my armor than the components that the armor is suppose to be protecting. And if you threw on the Ferros Fiber; you are not going to be making much money. Us Assault mechs have a LOT of armor. Armor that, I might add, is less effective as defense than bad net code... but I digress.

I can make money in my Atlas now, but it is tough. Here is how:

1) Check your gear. LB-10x and UAC/5s are expensive. Worse, their ammo is very expensive. I can fully rearm 3 to 4 tons of AC/10 rounds for under a 1000 CBills. 1 ton of LB-10x... try well over 5000! Not sure what the exact costs are here but the price differences are significant. Same for the Ultra AC/5 and the AC/5. Ultra rounds are costing a premium.

2) Don't rearm. I hate this, personally, but it's the only way to make money most rounds if you are running a high cost ammo weapon.

3) Don't repair. I hate this as well. But you'll get back up to something like 75% armor for free. That alone will save me about 45,000 CBills per rounds just in armor costs. Then, target specific systems for individual repair. Like my AC in the torso. They get shot at a lot and I need them tough and working.

4) Alter your play style. Stay with the group. A LOT. Pick another assault and just shadow him. Even if he is a complete moron. He'll draw fire at least. Don't go standing up high looking around in the distance. Don't start trading long range shots with Guass rifles and LRMs. It is costly.


Now, with all this said, it is a LOT tougher to run and make a profit on the assault mechs. Especially compared to their effectiveness currently against fast, ECM equiped lights. The game is heavily stacked in the favor of light mechs right now. Especially if you don't have good teammates to drop with that can help screen you. I make a lot more money per round when I have HMinus or Connor in their Hunchback acting as bodyguard for me when those Ravens show up.

I really think they need to revamp the armor repair costs. Just seems silly that my armor is more expensive than my internal components. And this just gives extra motivation to guys playing base blitz every rounds and trying to avoid combat. You're selling a combat game. People want to play a combat game and blow stuff up with giant robots with big guns. They don't want to play ring-a-round-the-poses with a bunch of light mechs that they can not effectively engage and just hope that they can rush the cap faster than the opponent.

#42 nom de guerre

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:51 AM

I run 2 of the most expensive builds out there and have no issue breaking even w/o premium.

#43 Franchi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

I have no trouble wracking up a 160k repair/rearm bill in my SRM6 cat, heck on a loss i can lose money with premium on.


That is the cost of running every upgrade except Ferro and making your enemy shoot every section of your mech to pieces.

#44 Nonsense

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:13 AM

View PostBluten, on 06 November 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Why does an Atlas pilot get paid as much as a Jenner?


Because Atlases have about as much in armor as the weight of an entire jenner.
Because the devs probably have item, ammo, and repair costs factored into the future design of community warfare.

I have a CTF-1X with a 5xLL build. The max repair bill I've seen is 55k.

#45 Cleverbird

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:14 AM

This is why I like my mediums so much, they're nice and cheap to repair... even if I lose, I still make a small buck!

#46 nom de guerre

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:14 AM

View PostFranchi, on 14 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

I have no trouble wracking up a 160k repair/rearm bill in my SRM6 cat, heck on a loss i can lose money with premium on.


That is the cost of running every upgrade except Ferro and making your enemy shoot every section of your mech to pieces.


yep I've run srm and lrm cats and with them the key to making $ is winning more than you lose.

#47 Noodlesoup

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:01 AM

i constantly make money while playing MWO. maybe 1 out of 10 matches i'll "lose" some money but rarely any substantial amount (usually break even in a loss if I get completely blown up).

If you're losing money, you're driving a mech you cannot afford to repair, and/or you are using weapons/upgrades that are expensive to fix.

go with a simpler mech, it literally costs roughly 10k to repair a destroyed commando. as you scale upwards, the costs go up, pick something smaller and lighter and/or use less expensive technology/weapons. the eco model is designed to discourage everyone from using the highest and most expensive tech due to the cost of repair.

#48 De La Fresniere

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

I can't be bothered to read one more of these threads, but yes...

On my Centurion I make 114,000 per game on average and lose 119,000 per game on average, meaning I actually lose C-bills over time.

The catch is, that's if I repair and rearm.

I switched to a Cicada recently. I don't rearm anymore, which brings my repair bills down to about 60,000, and I don't repair items either, which brings my bills down to 18,000 or so. Meaning I make close to 100,000 per match.

I felt bad doing it a first, feeling like I was cheesing the system... but the truth is, unless you want to play 10,000 matches to buy a single mech, or want play Trials and awfully geared mechs all the time to reduce repair costs, the cheese is good.

tl;dr, don't rearm and don't repair items (armor and structure sufficient).

Hopefully they'll reduce the costs by a lot, down to 1/5th or 1/10th of what they are now. Alternatively they'll improve winnings based on the player's performance, because right now, getting kills and dealing damage generates negligible bonuses; you get nearly as much for sucking as you get for being a sexy mechgod.

#49 Atayu

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

Making Cbills in a pimped out expensive custom mech is completely possible but so is loosing cbills. The more upgrades you have on a mech the more it will cost to repair. The more expensive weapons you have the more it will cost to repair. The more ammo you carry the more it will cost to rearm. The simple truth of making money in a high end mech is do lots of damage and take very little. If you are running a high end mech with more then 1 upgrade expect to make very little or loss on deaths plain and simple. I also see people wasting ballistic ammo all the time. Remember it works out with ballistic weapons if it is a hit it will increase your profit if it is a miss it will lower it. I say this because the damage of the hit pays for the shell plus some, where as a miss you just wasted those cbills for the shell for no profit at all.
If you are running a Atlas with FF, ES, DHS, Atramis in it You will most likely loss money even if you just get a part or 2 took off during the fight and still win. But if you were running a commando with a standard engine no upgrades it is almost imposable to loss cbills with that thing even if your team losses the match.
To put it plainly the more expensive of mech you play the batter you have to do in the match to still make cbills.

#50 SpiralRazor

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:34 AM

View PostsiLve00, on 06 November 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

uhm actual... the rep costs are fine.. and ammo costs too.
its perfect... ( if they take back in missle damage .. i miss those cbills )

its just not true that you dont earn cbills.. you can do it right now with every mech.



lol!!! wut u say?

View PostAtayu, on 14 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Making Cbills in a pimped out expensive custom mech is completely possible but so is loosing cbills. The more upgrades you have on a mech the more it will cost to repair. The more expensive weapons you have the more it will cost to repair. The more ammo you carry the more it will cost to rearm. The simple truth of making money in a high end mech is do lots of damage and take very little. If you are running a high end mech with more then 1 upgrade expect to make very little or loss on deaths plain and simple. I also see people wasting ballistic ammo all the time. Remember it works out with ballistic weapons if it is a hit it will increase your profit if it is a miss it will lower it. I say this because the damage of the hit pays for the shell plus some, where as a miss you just wasted those cbills for the shell for no profit at all.
If you are running a Atlas with FF, ES, DHS, Atramis in it You will most likely loss money even if you just get a part or 2 took off during the fight and still win. But if you were running a commando with a standard engine no upgrades it is almost imposable to loss cbills with that thing even if your team losses the match.
To put it plainly the more expensive of mech you play the batter you have to do in the match to still make cbills.


ballistic shells dont cost crap compared to missiles...even if i dump ALL my ammo, im still only paying like 11k to rearm all of it...bad comparison.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 14 December 2012 - 11:35 AM.


#51 Ricama

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

The only issue is that PGI needs to make money. It would be nice to be awash with cash but why would anyone buy any of the + c-bill mechs if they could simply get all they need with any purchased mech? You have a choice: use a PoS trial mech, use your own and make less money or buy a hero mech and make reasonable amounts of money with a good mech.

#52 Dayuhan

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

Repair costs go down significantly if you use low-tech options in your 'mech design. I have three Centurion builds, one has almost all the upgrades (Endo Steel, DHS, XL engine, AMS, Beagle Active Probe). When it gets severely damaged in combat the repair costs can be considerable - 75K or more. I also have a low-tech Centurion build (Standard engine, SHS, standard AC10 and large laser for weapons) - the highest I have ever paid to repair this one is about 30K.

So if you find your repair costs are too high, make a low-tech version of your 'mech and use it for a while and you will find you start making c-bills again.

#53 Fate 6

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

View PostLogicSol, on 06 November 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Play a cheaper mech. You can also save CB by not rearming, as you get 75% of your ammo back for free.

This is 100% a troll post.

Playing a cheaper mech = playing a trial mech. If I want to play my Atlas I shouldn't feel bad about it.
Not rearming means I will run out of ammo. I'm not going to load up my mech with more ammo than I need because I need the tonnage for other things.

#54 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Trials suck yet bring more money. I don't get it. It's like the money is compensation. Why not just make them "not" suck then bring in regular money?

#55 Fate 6

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:06 PM

View PostDayuhan, on 14 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Repair costs go down significantly if you use low-tech options in your 'mech design. I have three Centurion builds, one has almost all the upgrades (Endo Steel, DHS, XL engine, AMS, Beagle Active Probe). When it gets severely damaged in combat the repair costs can be considerable - 75K or more. I also have a low-tech Centurion build (Standard engine, SHS, standard AC10 and large laser for weapons) - the highest I have ever paid to repair this one is about 30K.

So if you find your repair costs are too high, make a low-tech version of your 'mech and use it for a while and you will find you start making c-bills again.

You're missing the point. People want to play with the mech they spent so long buying and upgrading to their playstyle. To unlock their next mech, they want to use their upgraded mech not some piece of crap downgraded version. I've given up grinding to my next mech in the variants I enjoy because it's too expensive when I die and not enough reward when I live. My current grinding mech is a Jenner with a 200 Standard engine, 6 ML, and SHS. The repair cost is low, but the mech sucks. That shouldn't be the tradeoff I'm forced to make. The tradeoff of running a bigger mech is the vulnerability to fast mechs, their slowness (vulnerability in open areas), etc. The tradeoff of running an XL engine is getting side torso killed. These are the tradeoffs, there should not be an accompanying CBill cost as well.

The point is, people shouldn't be punished for playing the way they want to play. That's just unreasonable, and this game will crash and burn if it isn't changed. I know I'm already losing interest since I can't grind in the mechs I actually enjoy playing. Instead of weighing the pros and cons of the actual mech setup, I am basing decisions off how much I will be punished in CBills. Games don't thrive off of that, so if PGI wants to keep the economy how it is they can say goodbye to their profits in the long (or even not-so-long) run.




EDIT: As another note, I felt really good about the game when I had free premium running. I haven't activated mine because of my busy schedule, but the speed of the economy felt great when premium was running. It still kind of sucked to run large mechs (especially any assault with an XL), but I've already addressed that point above.
To make a parallel, it would be like saying that someone in LoL should make less IP if they use a champ that costs 6300IP to unlock. That would be stupid. Or maybe 6-item AD carries should make less IP?

Edited by Fate 6, 14 December 2012 - 12:24 PM.


#56 WildeKarde

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

Well I tried a 3D with gauss, ultra 5 and ER llaser and always turn a profit even on a bad loss, swapped out to pulse lasers with lb10x and a loss I would always lose money. Considering I have less ammo to pay for it makes me wary of the shiny toys in the mech.

#57 Ecouto

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:19 PM

Light mechs for me ;) low cost

#58 Tesunie

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

So. From what I have read so far (skipping the bottom of the last page, sorry guys), people think it's more fair for an assault mech to be the same to repair as a 25 ton mech? That 100 ton mech is four times the mass of a 25 ton mech. It's going to cost more to fix. The thing that counters is, assults and heavies are suppose to be able to cause more damage, due to ability to get more weapons on them. You get paid extra for more damage you caused in the game.

On another note, upgrades are suppose to be expensive. By lore, Ferro-fibrious armor is very hard to make, rare to come by, and expensive to replace. It's lost tech. Same with Endo-steel, more lost tech (and shouldn't be able to be replaced in a mech made with standard frames... but that's different). Many of the other upgrades are also suppose to cost more, as it's harder to find, and thus harder to replace.

If anything, what isn't right is getting a portion of repairs and ammo for free, but that's once more a different story and I think they did that so even if you went broke, you could still at least play the game with your custom mech.

I'd also like to mention that, by lore, we shouldn't be able to do half the customizing that we all do. Mechs were normally made a certain way, and that was the way they stayed unless you where rich or was only ripping out a weapon for more armor or replacing with a smaller version (most times).

It only makes sense that a mech fitted with all the "good stuff" is going to be harder and more expensive to maintain. It's just harder to fix up. It's like, fixing up a Model T in todays age. It's lost tech (not made anymore) is the best descriotion I can come up with. Can it be fixed? Yes. Is it cheap to fix? Heck no. It's going to cost a good sum of money. Same with a mech using lost tech. Supply and demand at it's finest.

Oh the other side, I play with Cicada's (so far) and I have never lost money that I've noticed so far. Even when I get blown to pieces, I still seem to come out even, if not with a little more. I have fielded AC 20s, UAC 5s, AC 2s, and even missiles on a hunchback I've since sold. I have Endo and Ferro on it, but not double heatsinks nor XL.

Honestly, I made the most money on my Jenner with no upgrades. Standard is, well, standard. It's easier to get, thus cheaper and easier to repair. Lasers naturally have no ammo costs, so they naturally are cheaper.

I find (so far from my limited experience) that the economics of this game seem fairly balanced. I'll soon be getting my first Assalt with my free account, a nice Stalker when it comes out. I'll be able to give more feed back then, but I have a feeling I'll still at least make ends meet. And if not, I'll have my Cicada's to fall back onto once again.

Best I can suggest (after this long post, sorry) is to make several mech designs you enjoy. Some more standard for real c-bill grind, and one for any other time when you don't care. If you only want to play one mech, try to stay with more standard items with fewer upgrades. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And if you are desprate (which I haven't had any time I lost so much money I couldn't go on), pick up a starter trial mech again. Sometimes it's good to change the pace up and experience something new. The more diverse you are, the better lance mate you will be.

#59 LordHarco

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

Dont know what you are doing wrong but i make 5 to 6 mil in 3 to 4 hours. And before you say it i rarely play founders mechs hate the jenners cats and hunchys. play the atlas some but mostly play the phrat and dragon. usually make between 130k for a loss to 250k for a win that comes out to about 83000 without preimum to 165000 most of my repair bills on a loss come up to about 45000 and a win about 20000. Of course i use very little tech 2 components other than the ultra ac's and dhs. On mechs with out that equipment my repair cost are about half the about mentioned.

View PostTesunie, on 14 December 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

So. From what I have read so far (skipping the bottom of the last page, sorry guys), people think it's more fair for an assault mech to be the same to repair as a 25 ton mech? That 100 ton mech is four times the mass of a 25 ton mech. It's going to cost more to fix. The thing that counters is, assults and heavies are suppose to be able to cause more damage, due to ability to get more weapons on them. You get paid extra for more damage you caused in the game.

On another note, upgrades are suppose to be expensive. By lore, Ferro-fibrious armor is very hard to make, rare to come by, and expensive to replace. It's lost tech. Same with Endo-steel, more lost tech (and shouldn't be able to be replaced in a mech made with standard frames... but that's different). Many of the other upgrades are also suppose to cost more, as it's harder to find, and thus harder to replace.

If anything, what isn't right is getting a portion of repairs and ammo for free, but that's once more a different story and I think they did that so even if you went broke, you could still at least play the game with your custom mech.

I'd also like to mention that, by lore, we shouldn't be able to do half the customizing that we all do. Mechs were normally made a certain way, and that was the way they stayed unless you where rich or was only ripping out a weapon for more armor or replacing with a smaller version (most times).

It only makes sense that a mech fitted with all the "good stuff" is going to be harder and more expensive to maintain. It's just harder to fix up. It's like, fixing up a Model T in todays age. It's lost tech (not made anymore) is the best descriotion I can come up with. Can it be fixed? Yes. Is it cheap to fix? Heck no. It's going to cost a good sum of money. Same with a mech using lost tech. Supply and demand at it's finest.

Oh the other side, I play with Cicada's (so far) and I have never lost money that I've noticed so far. Even when I get blown to pieces, I still seem to come out even, if not with a little more. I have fielded AC 20s, UAC 5s, AC 2s, and even missiles on a hunchback I've since sold. I have Endo and Ferro on it, but not double heatsinks nor XL.

Honestly, I made the most money on my Jenner with no upgrades. Standard is, well, standard. It's easier to get, thus cheaper and easier to repair. Lasers naturally have no ammo costs, so they naturally are cheaper.

I find (so far from my limited experience) that the economics of this game seem fairly balanced. I'll soon be getting my first Assalt with my free account, a nice Stalker when it comes out. I'll be able to give more feed back then, but I have a feeling I'll still at least make ends meet. And if not, I'll have my Cicada's to fall back onto once again.

Best I can suggest (after this long post, sorry) is to make several mech designs you enjoy. Some more standard for real c-bill grind, and one for any other time when you don't care. If you only want to play one mech, try to stay with more standard items with fewer upgrades. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And if you are desprate (which I haven't had any time I lost so much money I couldn't go on), pick up a starter trial mech again. Sometimes it's good to change the pace up and experience something new. The more diverse you are, the better lance mate you will be.

lol my atlas cost me more to repair than my hvy mechs usually by about a factor of X 1.5 but then i usally make more on it than the hvys (destroy more mod's and do more damage )

#60 malibu43

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

I'm on the fence about this one.

One the one hand, I can see why there should be some disincentive to completely trick out your mech with every upgrade imaginable. Even if the initial cost to buy the items is expensive, if there's no reason not to run them (DHS, ES, XL, Artemis) they will eventually become the norm as all players (both free and not free) eventually grind out enough CB to buy them. The higher repair/rearm costs possibly keep this from happening (the XL engine is the only one that has any disadvantage other than high repair/rearm costs). And of course there has to be incentives somewhere for people to actually spend money on the game.

On the other hand, it is frustrating to not be able to run "my favorite" build all the time. If I spend a butt ton of CB or MC on an XL Dragon, I want to be able to use it a lot. I don't one to run it every once in a while and run something less fun in between. In some cases, it also looks like some of the stock assaults can net you a loss if you're cored and don't win the match. Should you pay more for bringing more to the match? Maybe. But if one of the dev's goals was to "run the mech you want to run," this doesn't really meet that goal (depending on how you interpret that).

I bought MC a couple weeks ago and actually bought a Dragon with it (so I payed real money), but now I hear everywhere that a Dragon is useless without an XL (I don't know that that has necessarily been my experience so far). I have enough CB saved up for an XL now, but I'm having a hard time parting with 5M CB just to have a mech that loses money if my team loses. And winning/losing is something difficult to control if you PUG most of the time (which I do). And if this game is going to be successful, PUGGING has to be as well.

My 2 cents.





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