46 replies to this topic

[Evex]

Just so no one gets confused about what the subject of the topic is. The topic of today's discussion is the weapon known as the flamer. The pen and paper technical specifications of the weapon are.

Type: energy base
Heat: 3
Damage: 2
Range: N/A
Short Range: 1
Medium Range: 2
Long Range: 3
Tons: 1
Critical Slot: 1
Ammo per ton: n/a
Cost(unloaded) 7,500
Ammo Cost(per ton): n/a

Do you think this weapon will be plausible in MW:O, or is it just going to be another one of those weapons that sit on the side like narc beacons and flares? What sort of battlemechs benefit from using such a weapon? How do you think the weapon will be implemented in MW:O, if it is included?

Edited by Evex, 17 April 2012 - 05:18 AM.

[pursang]

Oh, you mean this?

[Evex]

Yup I mean that Flamer Pursang, would you like to sign up to be a test subject.

[Vandul]

Flamers were meant to make infantry popcorn. Beyond that, not very useful.

Edited by Vandul, 17 April 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Swiftfire]

In the correct situation flamers can have devastating effect. If used at the correct time you can shut down your opponent with heat overload and then possibly cook off their ammo. I've had this happen to me on several occasions. It's made me respect the flamer a great deal.

[Sylow]

Simple answer: if you plan to use it as a weapon, pick something else.

If you and our commander know how to use it as a tactical tool, on the other hand, several scout mechs with a flamer will be very valuable. Just consider the bits if info we were given:
- Commanders can use several ways of reconaissance, up to aerial vehicles and satelite scans.
- Commanders can command artillery strikes, airstrikes and even orbital strikes.
- Even without those long range attacks, simply knowing which way the enemies main force is moving is a significant advantage.

So, what to do against all those aerial recon? A scout mech you can hamper with ECM and destroy. For a scout plane, you might just barely still be able to do so if you pack appropriate weapons. But no mech can shoot down the scanning satelite. So unless you find subway tunnels or the likes to advance, it'll be rather easy to watch your moves.

In this case, the flamer might be just the tool you are looking for. Send out several light mechs to set fire to trees and buildings. (The very first video, when it was still MW5, showed that it can handle huge clouds of dust and smoke. ) Now the enemy sees three different paths, covered in smoke but has no way to know what hides beneath. Wish him fun in guessing, which of the three you actually use and which are just fake leads with just a fast light mech to run away when his main fighting force arrives at the very position where you want them to be.

Edited by Sylow, 17 April 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[Lailoken]

Check out the Mechwarrior mod for Crysis Wars: Mechwarrior Living Legends. Its absolutely fantastic.

As for flamer, in MWLL it's a viable weapon. Doesn't do great damage but you don't really have to aim it so long as it pointed at your target. Also good for obscuring vision to throw off someone's aim. But the real purpose is that it makes the targets heat increase.

For example there's a Harasser variant that has 6 flamers, with practice and some guts you can rush assault mechs and cook them till they explode (keep heating a mech after it goes into thermal shut down and it explodes). There are other mechs with flamers but unless you have more than two they're just easy to aim point defence weapons.

As for NARC's they're also a viable weapon, though they require teamwork. There's no point NARC'ing if there isn't someone waiting for you with LRMs or Arrows.

[RedHairDave]

i love flamers in tt, there is something really funny about hitting a mech with 12 heat off a light mech after he just did an alpha strike and watching him have to roll over 10 to not have his ammo cook off. depending on how it works, it could be really funny.

[Kargush]

WOOOOOOOSH! *demented cackle* Burn, my pretties, BURN!

*cough*

Yes, we should have the flamer in the game. Raise heat, torch terrain, that sort of thing.

[Voidreaver]

Mmm... Barbecue!
Nothing quite says "Die you dirty *******!" like turning 'em into your latest Battlefield Barbecue Recipe.

[Orzorn]

Flamers will also be very useful at blinding the heck out of anybody using night vision, thermal vision, or even normal vision. Several light mechs using flamers could totally obscure your view while also totally wrecking your heat.

I imagine that once things like Triple Strength Myomer come out that flamers will really shine, since TSM requires high heat to be effective in the first place, so flamers could easily push them over the edge and force a shutdown (or worse!).

[Strum Wealh]

kargush, on 17 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

WOOOOOOOSH! *demented cackle* Burn, my pretties, BURN!

*cough*

Yes, we should have the flamer in the game. Raise heat, torch terrain, that sort of thing.

So... who else read that first line in the voice of Dilandau from Escaflowne?

[William Petersen]

Evex, on 17 April 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Do you think this weapon will be plausible in MW:O, or is it just going to be another one of those weapons that sit on the side like narc beacons and flares?

What? O.o NARC is awesome, and promises to be even more full of awesome in MW:O than any previous MW title!


As for Flamers... They're mostly for roasting tankers and starting fires. They're not really mean for Mech vs Mech action, so I honestly don't see much need to even implement them. /shrugs

[Cattra Kell]

If we are talking fluff from Novels you also have to remember that the Flamer was the fear of all MechWarriors. The napalm would stick to the cockpit and if you ejected, depending on the mech, you subjected yourself to the burning inferno outside. Other then that its mainly used for infantry.

[SGT Unther]

Well use of the flamer begs the question

"Did you order regular or extra crispy?"

[Shadow Dragoon]

I hope its in the game but at the same time I don't. Liking assault mechs when ever a scout got past me with a flamer I just kinda cried as I over heated from that damn thing.

[Major Tom]

I would probably light up building/fuel depot/tree to throw off enemy thermal imaging.
Against a battlemech, probably not worth the heat unless their armor has been breached.

[Cattra Kell]

Major Tom, on 17 April 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

I would probably light up building/fuel depot/tree to throw off enemy thermal imaging.
Against a battlemech, probably not worth the heat unless their armor has been breached.

I forgot about this fact in the game. The use of the flamer could be used to hit something and make it heat up so it shows up on their thermal scans.

[Tannhauser Gate]

In MW4M and MWLL, flamers are very effective mech heaters. They have tactical use especially on hot maps or energy heavy situations where people will want to run borderline. I wouldnt discount this weapon as useless in MWO at all considering the emphasis on role warfare.

[wwiiogre]

Yes the flamer needs to be in the game, period.

The statistics forgot to mention they caused three heat to the enemy as well as 3 heat to the mech firing the weapon. If PGI implements fully destructible terrain and that would include fires that cause smoke, heat and decrease visibility it would mean they would have to add wind. Since wind really is the difference when we are talking about fires, as well as humidity. Such that there would be a trigger point. In the table top not only flamers caused fires. Every weapon other than the Gauss Rifle had a good chance of causing a fire, and I think a metal slug travelling at super sonic speeds hits anything metal and there is gonna be a big spark plus it should be relatively super heated when it travels that fast or impacts anything, thus causing a chance to create flames. The 2009 trailer showed us destructible buildings even from a mech just landing on them when the Jenner landed on the roof of the building the top two floors of windows blew out from the physics weight. Then the building collapsed when a six pack of SRM's were fired but it didn't catch on fire.

I vote the flamer is in but wonder how much work would it really take to code all the things it needs to make it viable.

In the table top we always house ruled in a variation making flamers much, much worse in an attempt to follow the fiction of the novels. We had napalm sticks to everything with a flamer causing 3 heat to the target the first round, 2 heat the second and 1 heat the third. If a mech spent an entire round or ten seconds trying to get the flamer gel off then it would go away on the second round without causing heat. But that was us trying to make it more useful.

We still don't know if vehicles will be in, which have flamers and a different type and we don't know if SRM inferno rounds will be in. With the rules for fires, inferno rounds, flamers, vehicle flamers and even regular weapons that could catch any type of terrain on fire. I wonder how PGI will handle this.

Since yes, the use of fire is a tactic and a strategy and could be very important to control or distort information warfare. In one of the Natasha Kerensky books she walks a unit thru a forest fire. Burning off all the paint but taking the enemy by surprise.

chris