769 replies to this topic

[SpritZzz]

well i just had a couple of matches with my lrm boat Atlas-D-DC sporting 3* lrm15 artimis and all. In the last match i had a atlas target out at abot 650 meter and i send 7+ salvoes at him with clear sight and no cover for him that is like 250 misiles i i saw good hits all over his mech but after all that shooting with misiles and not even bringing him down to orange armour i decided to close the distance and just shoot with my 2 med-lasers and i did more dammage with those before he got me with ac-2s and large lasers

i think the nerf bat hit a bit to hard!!! launching 1800 lrm and doing sub600 damage is just useless

i must admit the OP damage from before the hotfix was also a bit to the wrong side but some kind of middelground is needed here i think, also as a side note then lrm boat will get even more useless when defensive systems like ECM gets into the game

just my two bits on thís subject

[Reaver225]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

The arcing change means that you no longer need to actively seek cover....as long as you are somewhere near a hill, building or other obstacle, the LRMs will hit it instead of you. Pre-artemis, you needed to either find a large obstacle, or hug a smaller one. No hugging is needed now. Unless you are brain dead and standing in the open, you cannot be hit by LRMs.

"what am i doing? i should be boating lasers instead".

The LRM flight path is now the same as it was before the artemis patch; the 90 degree turn that they were making was the same as what happened in the closed beta.

That smacks to me like someone accidentally messed it up, and the curve was how it was supposed to be like.

LRMs before the artemis patch USED to miss a lot. The only reliable way to hit with a majority of them was to get the target TAG'd like pre-artemis patch.

Laserboating? They just got fixed from a bug that made them be only 25% heaty as they should be, too many lasers will just overheat far too easily.

LRMs are still plenty powerful, just make sure someone's got a TAG to hit properly.

[miscreant]

Titanium Booger, on 08 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

This guy knows what hes talking about... the intention of Lrms is a Support weapon.. NOT a primary... this is Role warfare.. lrms as they were left little to no room in the game for stragety save for running and hiding and hoping the opposing team ran out of LRMs first if u wanna play tower defense i suggest u get a tower defense game, this is a simulator. Brawling in my opinion is more fun and is where real pilots display their talents any noob can steal a lock and press the big red mouse button..

personally I still think that Line of site Locking should be limited to first person Line of site only unless enemy unit is narc'd or tagged that would put Lrms in exactly the role they should be used in, a support arterilly weapons in team warfare

Perfect - Glad somebody said it.

[Thirdrail]

I spend a lot of time in a 2x20 love cat, since it's my founder mech, and I'm trying to save as much money as possible. I'm very happy with today's patch.

It took me a couple of hours to adapt, but now I'm back to getting LRM kills just fine. I notice, too, that my endgame damage is in line with everyone else, instead of being double or triple my cohorts. That tells me I'm looking at a fair game mechanic.

Think of it this way. Direct fire weapons require spatial skill. Indirect weapons (now) require tactical skill. Whichever weapon type you choose to use, you actually have to be good at something to get good results. I find this new way a lot more engaging than the previous weeks I've spent spamming mouse 2 at a little red rectangle.

I will say, on the counterpoint: Artemis is very close to being non-optional now. And, if ECM is going to further debuff missiles, they might become a little underpowered once we reach that point. In the game we're playing right now, today, I think they've done an excellent job with the hotfix.

[Karyudo ds]

RragnarR40k, on 08 November 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

/end of story...!

Oh, no such thing sir. No such thing.

Thepotatomasher, on 08 November 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

one thing everyone is failing to mention is the critical chance of destroying internals. so what..you're not getting tons of kills, but that doesn't mean you're not knocking out criticals.

I love me some "component destroyed" messages! I'd have to agree, having used a shiny blue dual LRM 15 Cat for awhile now they feel good now. I can't kill half a team in seconds but even losing I can still net kills and the rearm bill for Artemis seems alright. Still end up paying more with it than without but I was about to uninstall it before.

[Xenroth]

Jesus i played a lot for now and the thing that ****** me up most was that in every game you had at least 1-2 gaussapults, but they are not as before they were before with only 2 gauss and nothing else because they reached their tonnage , no they also have lasers now ... thx to endosteel and ferro fibrous ... which makes them the new abuse ...

Edited by Xenroth, 08 November 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[Kibble]

Glad to hear LRMs are working again.

Artimis only works when the person firing them has DIRECT LOS on the target. Artimis does not group closer with indirect fire.

[JoolNoret]

Did a little boating yesterday and felt like I was actually up on damage. Didn't even know there was any nerfing done lol. I've been focusing on boating smarter lately though (ie. only firing when I have a solid lock and paying attention to where my missiles hit.). I guess it's paying off.

[Bogus]

LRMs were not supposed to be a pwnwagon and never were in previous games, they're for softening up big targets at range before brawlers close to finish the job. LRM boats ODing the rest of their team even before Artelulz was not working as intended, it just wasn't a balance priority in the face of so many FOTM boats until last patch made it egregious.

[Suskis]

SpritZzz, on 08 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

well i just had a couple of matches with my lrm boat Atlas-D-DC sporting 3* lrm15 artimis and all. In the last match i had a atlas target out at abot 650 meter and i send 7+ salvoes at him with clear sight and no cover for him that is like 250 misiles i i saw good hits all over his mech but after all that shooting with misiles and not even bringing him down to orange armour i decided to close the distance and just shoot with my 2 med-lasers and i did more dammage with those before he got me with ac-2s and large lasers

i think the nerf bat hit a bit to hard!!! launching 1800 lrm and doing sub600 damage is just useless

i must admit the OP damage from before the hotfix was also a bit to the wrong side but some kind of middelground is needed here i think, also as a side note then lrm boat will get even more useless when defensive systems like ECM gets into the game

just my two bits on thís subject

This.
This is what I am saying. If I shoot 4LRM20 we have 80 missiles going towards a target, capable of doing 160 points of damage. If we assume an average 100 damage pts, it's not that hard to understand that 3, maybe 5 salvos mean 300 to 500 damage points (at average). This is more than the full amount of armor any light mech has!

The right way to adjust LRM is to lower their hit chance outside their proper range, to spread the damage all over the target, to force the pilot to keep the crosshairs red during the whole flight, to have them better chance to hit directly that indirectly. This would make sense. Not what we see now.
LRMS cost you a fortune in reload (sometimes you spend as much as you earn in the match in repair and reload), in equipment (4LRMs are 2 million cbills!) they have a SLOW cycle (shooting at 1000m takes a LONG time to hit) and make you dependant on spotters that, often, with PUGS don't even know what their role is.
Also, many of us have not the latest hardware to play on. I play at 8 FPS at best. I don't even see Cicadas when they are circling around me sometimes... LRMS are almost the mandatory choice when it takes over 1 second to fire a weapon after you press a button. Don't think skill is ONLY playing MWO as it was Halo.

(btw: when you do your maths calculating that an LRM20 does 40 damage, you should also remember that armor is double as well. where in TT game you have 9 pts of armor you have 19 in this game).

[Gabrielpendragon]

Isn't C3 and C3 slaves required for non los locks? also i have heard that artemis isn't function fully as intended yet. shrug. just wait for long toms, possibly even artillery sights like the arty in WOT have...

[HC Harlequin]

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed that the large salvo boat damage (3x LRM15/LRM20) won't even kill a solo HBK or CAT running 600 meters straight for you in the open?

[Dakkath]

Damage per missile was reduced from 2.0 to 1.7.

I believe. Also they tweaked the incoming angle, so you are no longer head shotting everything

[Namwons]

1.7, not 0.7

[Pafetik Bazerka]

Currently piloting a LRM Boat and know they are very far from useless, in fact I think they could take anther 0.1-0.2 off damage for an even better balance against against the other weapons, They still hit just a tiny bit harder than they probably should and I still see them used extremely effectively en-masse but atleast they are not the only weapon on the field anymore.
But that may be a moot point if, further balance may come from other weapon tweaks.

Those complaining are probably not able to see beyond LRM boats, and cant stomache the idea of not getting insta kills. Make your boats mobile, keep your tagets at medium ranges and keep your self hull down. Its delivers good punches, and its a lot more fun and exciting than the pre hot fix days. It basically make slow moving missile racks redundant but IMHO 'good ridance'

Good work PGI but please be a bit quicker to the fix next time,

Edited by Pafetik Bazerka, 08 November 2012 - 04:38 PM.

[Suskis]

Gabrielpendragon, on 08 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Isn't C3 and C3 slaves required for non los locks? also i have heard that artemis isn't function fully as intended yet. shrug. just wait for long toms, possibly even artillery sights like the arty in WOT have...

C3 work swapping ranges. If one mech in a C3 network is at 100 meters distance, all mechs in the same network can treat the target as it was at 100 meters (if this helps them. if this make the target harder to hit, they can ignore it).
LRMs have always had the indirect fire option that make the target harder to hit, but allows them to fly over obstacles blocking LOS. This is how rules have worked since day 1.

[CrowTRobot]

Suskis, on 08 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

...

(btw: when you do your maths calculating that an LRM20 does 40 damage, you should also remember that armor is double as well. where in TT game you have 9 pts of armor you have 19 in this game).

I love how proponents of OP LRMs consistantly use this point of logic to defend their builds. If LRMs naturally do double damage due to armor being doubled, then how come no other weapon does double damage? The AC/20 still does 20 damage, for example. The reason armor was doubled was to make matches last longer, since the game is in real time.

[Bru1zer]

JediMastaDJ, on 08 November 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

As per TT rules, you could launch LRMs if you had a spotter.

Ignoring TT rules, since everyone gets shared targeting data on a team, this is still a logical step to take. You also fail to mention that someone DOES have to have line of sight on the target: the spotter. If the spotter loses line of sight, everyone loses line of sight. I know this because I act as a scout all the time for my clan. I make sure to maintain LOS on a target that has LRMs launching at it so that they hit more frequently. If I lose LOS, then my teammates might just have wasted an expensive volley of missiles.

V true, but we have strayed so far from TT already what does it matter, if I wanted to play TT rules I would be looking at mechwarrior tactics not MWO, I didn't think I needed to mention how spotting currently works, we all know how the game currently plays.

I never played TT I started with MW2 and have played every MW FPS franchise since, I have two master cats and 2 elite jenners I am well aware of how the game currently works from both sides (as a spotter and as battery)

My point is presently you can have 7 missile carriers behind cover and one spotter (not a great team makeup but stick with me), the target gets no indication they are spotted which is all that is required for the other 7 to launch from safety.

If it was changed so the missile carriers required LOS themselves then you wouldn't have LRM only mechs sitting behind cover, they would have to get in the thick of it.

All that is needed is one our scouts to rush behind enemy lines and target the enemy, they have no idea we are there until it's too late, game is over, it's boring.
If the locking mechanic was changed you wouldn't have everyone with LRMS shooting at the first poor sap that gets targeted.

[HC Harlequin]

I think you guys are wrong.

1440 missile loadout on 3xLRM 15 with Artemis so far. All missiles fired each iteration on locked tgts in open.

553 damage, 2 kills
698 damage, 1 kill
634 damage, 2 kills
326 damage, 3 kills
630 damage, 1 kill
732 damage, 1 kill
443 damage, 2 kills
498 damage, 3 kills
471 damage, 0 kills

So. for example. I can send 45 missiles in one salvo against a heat shut down Atlas in the open, stationary, with no one else around to provide additional AMS. If 1.7 is correct, which it obviously isn't,then max damage would be around 76 damage. 76 damage compared to 614 max armor on an Atlas would be around 12% damage. But no. The actual percentage is around 2%. The Atlass goes to 98 or 97% on the first salvo.. then to around 95% on 2 salvo's.. etc etc.

Edited by HC Harlequin, 08 November 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[AceTimberwolf]

Lol two things. Lrm dmg was 2.0 so 4 lrm. 20S was 160 points of dmg. Second LOL u lrm'd. A light much. Wat kind of person does that?

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 08 November 2012 - 05:20 PM.