193 replies to this topic

[Cruxshadow]

What is the difference between min/maxing and optimization?

[SquareSphere]

from the dev videos over on IGN about the mechlab it looks a lot like the MW3 mechlab with the expection of having "slots" for different sections of the mech. That being said if the Awesome can carry 2 energy weapon in each major section (2xarms, 2x side torsos) you bet someone will try boating 8 of something with everything else to Heat Sinks.

[Ramien]

Cruxshadow, on 29 May 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

What is the difference between min/maxing and optimization?

That depends a lot on who you ask.

Some people would say that any customization of a 'Mech from canon loadouts is min-maxing. Thus, optimization = min-maxing.

Some people would say that min-maxing is an extreme form of customization where the designer takes advantage of rules loopholes or outright bugs/unintended consequences in order to create a 'Mech with an unfair advantage - a theoretical example would be loading up a K-2 Catapult with PPCs and extra direct fire weapons in the arms because you found a way to direct fire from behind total cover because the weapon arms of the 'Mech are slightly higher than the main body, so you just have to be right behind the building or hill and the clipping allows for shooting across the top of the terrain.

[Deathz Jester]

So what you're saying is.... I can't customize MY mech?

[Ramien]

Iron Harlequin, on 29 May 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

So what you're saying is.... I can't customize MY mech?

You can, but some people really think you shouldn't.

[Deathz Jester]

Ramien, on 29 May 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

You can, but some people really think you shouldn't.

Then what would be the point of playing this game, or having a mechlab then?

[MaddMaxx]

SquareSphere, on 29 May 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

from the dev videos over on IGN about the mechlab it looks a lot like the MW3 mechlab with the expection of having "slots" for different sections of the mech. That being said if the Awesome can carry 2 energy weapon in each major section (2xarms, 2x side torsos) you bet someone will try boating 8 of something with everything else to Heat Sinks.

And even that is fine as they will have pigeon holed themselves into a Single Battle range. Once noted, their individual effectiveness against a coordinated group will drop like a stone, or they have to have friends that can fill in the Support gaps, or other Roles required to win.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 29 May 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[enc0re]

Getting rid of the mech lab would clearly ruin the game for some. But the idea of an optional canon mode is nice. So that if you feel like playing with a non-optimized, flawed canon design; so is everyone else. It would be similar to role-playing versus non-roleplaying servers in WoW, only you wouldn't need different serves. It would just be a match-making preference.

[AussieGiant]

If they keep the mechlab framework from battletech basically intact, then everyone can go to town as far as I'm concerned.

It was one of the most robust, balanced and well thought out mechanics in any game. Customising was one of the greatest aspects of the game.

[MaddMaxx]

AussieGiant, on 29 May 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

If they keep the mechlab framework from battletech basically intact, then everyone can go to town as far as I'm concerned.

It was one of the most robust, balanced and well thought out mechanics in any game. Customising was one of the greatest aspects of the game.

And when not kept in proper check, resulted in the demise of the franchise, as we knew it. Now, 10 years later, we do not want a repeat of that right?

[Eximar]

Never forget that a chunk of players will succeed in creating a worse mech for themselves in the 'lab.

Max/minners. Gotta' have those, too.

[Joseph Calvert]

I will customize my mech to maximize it's ability to frag the daylights out of your mech and still walk off the field.

Edited by Joseph Calvert, 29 May 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[AussieGiant]

MaddMaxx, on 29 May 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

And when not kept in proper check, resulted in the demise of the franchise, as we knew it. Now, 10 years later, we do not want a repeat of that right?

Absolutely correct. The mech lab and how tech was introduced through it was the control mechanism in balancing the game. Screw that up and then it's all over.

[Sassori]

So much misinformation in this thread...

[Refizul]

Not wanting people to run around in mechs that abuse some imperfect rule is one thing. Complaining about people that try to create the perfect mech for themselfes is something different. Trying things out in the Mechlab is something alot of people enjoy. Why take that away just because it may be possible to abuse it? Why not just let the devs to try fix such problems should they really happen? This is after all not a SP game where after a few patches the support ends.

Optimising or min/maxing is part of pretty much ANY competitive game I can think of. It's even part of the TT game. Getting as much out of the BV as possible or using the mechs suitable for the scenario is also min/maxing. What about creating the best build order possible in StarCraft? Or what about getting the best weapon loadout in "insert modern shooter" ? Since when is all of that a bad thing?

What will you do once Omni Tech start spreading? That, aside from all the custom mechs, is pretty much min/maxing made canon.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I've said this before, I'll say it again:

All U.S. Infantry are dishonorable, cheating, no-good Min/Maxers who wear heavy ballistic armor on their torsos and no hardplates on their legs or arms.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 29 May 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Lets just remove all the features of the game that the devs spent their time on, then we'll have a fun, playable, exciting experience!

[Max Liao]

Iron Harlequin, on 29 May 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

So what you're saying is.... I can't customize MY mech?

99% of 'Mechs aren't owned by the pilot. Just as an F22 isn't own by its pilot(s). It's not like anyone can go to the local 'Mech dealership or Rent-a-Mech to pick up the combat vehicle of their choice.

While customization exists, it was to give a framework for what fits where. I think it was the Mercenary's handbook or maybe the original MechWarrior RPG that showed that it was quite expensive and time consuming to replace weaponry or load outs - and often came with mixed results. "Well, Bob, you've got a new large laser. The thing is, I wasn't able to get proper coolant to it." [+2 heat until a full repair bay can be found to fix it.]

[LordDeathStrike]

Prosperity Park, on 29 May 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I've said this before, I'll say it again:

All U.S. Infantry are dishonorable, cheating, no-good Min/Maxers who wear heavy ballistic armor on their torsos and no hardplates on their legs or arms.

actually ild be wearing armor on my limbs too, but thats cause i dont wanna be a limbless torso if an IED goes off next to me. /sarcasm pwns

[Major Bill Curtis]

Cruxshadow, on 29 May 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

What is the difference between min/maxing and optimization?

When you do it, it's optimization.

When the other guy does it, it's min/maxing.