791 replies to this topic

[Kaziganthi]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

lol XD

Oops sorry Dren, didn't realise that was your post

Edited by Kaziganthi, 13 November 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Violette]

Kaziganthi, on 13 November 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

Oops sorry Dren, didn't realise that was your post

Oh god, you can't even be a proper partisan. I'd give you trouble about that but it seems too cheap, too easy!

[Kaijin]

Violette, on 13 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Oh god, you can't even be a proper partisan. I'd give you trouble about that but it seems too cheap, too easy!

You already did, and rightly so.

[Grizley]

When I've seen LRMs used effectively lately it's not for MASS MEK SHEDDEN DMAGES!!!!one!!one1!! That was a brief, and thankfully past portion of the game. That was hands down the worst two days of gameplay MWO has offered.

• They can still kill lights very quickly, and since they autohit they ignore lagshield.
  
• They work great as part of a mixed weapons platform. I see Hunchbacks with an LRM15 or a pair of 10s then 4+ medium lasers. Most Atlas pilots have an LRM20, etc etc. You use them to soften up the enemy so when they get to you it takes a volley or two less of short range weapons to put them down.
  
• They work wonders at suppressing snipers, especially chainfired. A K2 who just sits there and plinks at you while he is eating constant LRM fire will die first. Cockpit rock spoils his aim. Good snipers will hide when they see LRMs inbound. That at least means they aren't firing while you or your allies close.

There are not a lot more versatile weapons.

I think LRMs are in a fantastic place, useful but not dominant. Pure LRM boats are not the way to go, which is fantastic. Yet you never feel like you should drop your LRMs for something else.

[Dren Nas]

Grizley, on 13 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

I think LRMs are in a fantastic place, useful but not dominant. Pure LRM boats are not the way to go, which is fantastic. Yet you never feel like you should drop your LRMs for something else.

I agree completely about when missiles were bugged; however, I think that pure LRM boats should have a place in the game.

While we may disagree with that thought, based on your quote there I think we can both agree that at this time pure LRM boats are underpowered.

[Valdez Raptor]

Grizley, on 13 November 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

When I've seen LRMs used effectively lately it's not for MASS MEK SHEDDEN DMAGES!!!!one!!one1!! That was a brief, and thankfully past portion of the game. That was hands down the worst two days of gameplay MWO has offered.

• They can still kill lights very quickly, and since they autohit they ignore lagshield.
  
• They work great as part of a mixed weapons platform. I see Hunchbacks with an LRM15 or a pair of 10s then 4+ medium lasers. Most Atlas pilots have an LRM20, etc etc. You use them to soften up the enemy so when they get to you it takes a volley or two less of short range weapons to put them down.
  
• They work wonders at suppressing snipers, especially chainfired. A K2 who just sits there and plinks at you while he is eating constant LRM fire will die first. Cockpit rock spoils his aim. Good snipers will hide when they see LRMs inbound. That at least means they aren't firing while you or your allies close.

There are not a lot more versatile weapons.


I think LRMs are in a fantastic place, useful but not dominant. Pure LRM boats are not the way to go, which is fantastic. Yet you never feel like you should drop your LRMs for something else.

They don't hit light mechs easily, since many light mechs can outrun them well enough.

Many other mechs have taken them off, including atlases and other mechs.

Lastly I have out snipped LRM mechs with my AC20 at a distance not to even mention my guass rifles since they do so little damage, I can easily stand there take a hit, aim fire in between the LRM shots.

[Grissnap]

Not that it will make a difference: I run 2 LRM-10s on my C1 and tend to get really high damage numbers anyway. While far from being an LRM boat, I am definitely doing a lot of damage and softening up targets (especially Lights and Mediums) with my LRMs. I can usually strip armor off a light in 3 salvos, though good lights know not to be out in the open or disengage from brawl when getting pelted with LRMs.

Occasionally I've gone up against teams with 2 or 3 dedicated LRM boats, and they were very effective.

I am still cautious enough about LRMs that I always try to stay aware of cover.

On the other hand, if there is just 1 LRM boat, LRMs are not deterrent enough for a Medium or larger to risk taking a couple salvos to get within 180 meters.

For me all of the above seems to me that the current state of LRMs are close to balance. Please note I say close to balance, not in balance, as I think some further experimenting with damage/spread is warranted.

The reason I say this is, I am now seeing more river brawls in River City and Forest Colony than before and I think this is evidence that the number of people running LRMs is probably lower than it should be. Whether this is an effect caused by the schizophrenic leap between the (undisputed) overpowered levels of Nov 6 - Nov 8 and post hotfix, or whether it is actually that LRMs are underpowered, is still (as evidenced in this thread) up to debate.

I believe in time we will see which is actually the case.

As for me, I love being a support so I will continue using LRMs, unless they decide get rid of the free 75% ammo, because there is no way I would be willing to go into the red each game (even if I win) to pay for artemis ammo.

Edited by Grissnap, 13 November 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[Wispsy]

My DDC has been averaging between 600-1000 damage all night, only weapon that is not lrms is 1 large laser. Missiles are doing damage.

[Kaijin]

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

My DDC has been averaging between 600-1000 damage all night, only weapon that is not lrms is 1 large laser. Missiles are doing damage.

So it finally comes out. You run a DDC. A 100 ton mech with enough room and tonnage to carry uber armor, nearly endless reloads, and enough heat sinks to chain-fire your LRMs until you do run out of ammo.

Try it in a proper 'fire-support' mech like...i dunno...A Catapult! That's what this thread is about after all. How LRMs are nerfed for Catapults.

[Wispsy]

Kaijin, on 14 November 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

So it finally comes out. You run a DDC. A 100 ton mech with enough room and tonnage to carry uber armor, nearly endless reloads, and enough heat sinks to chain-fire your LRMs until you do run out of ammo.

Try it in a proper 'fire-support' mech like...i dunno...A Catapult! That's what this thread is about after all. How LRMs are nerfed for Catapults.

Multiple times I have stated I have mainly been running an lrm RAVEN with a single lrm 20 tag and medlas. Doing 300-600 average on that.

Edit: I just made my DDC tonight and although it is not quite finished imo it still works absolutely fine.

Edited by Wispsy, 14 November 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[Kaijin]

Kaijin, on 13 November 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Could you be more specific about these elements of strategy that are flourishing now that LRMs can be pretty much ignored?

I've been waiting quite patiently, Violette.

[Scratx]

Kaijin, on 14 November 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

So it finally comes out. You run a DDC. A 100 ton mech with enough room and tonnage to carry uber armor, nearly endless reloads, and enough heat sinks to chain-fire your LRMs until you do run out of ammo. Try it in a proper 'fire-support' mech like...i dunno...A Catapult! That's what this thread is about after all. How LRMs are nerfed for Catapults.

My C4 and C1 do just fine. The C4 is pure LRM boat.

See: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1416532

[Kaijin]

Scratx, on 13 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I like the fact LRMs are no longer dominant, and I especially enjoy the fact so many people seem to think that means they can just waltz around and ignore that "Incoming Missile" warning.

Why, because LRMs suck, right? /sarcasm

My C4 Catapult is perfectly capable of killing mechs in just a few salvos. Even when I don't get the kill, I heavily influence brawls by literally stripping away the armor of the enemy brawlers. Just takes 2 salvos and most medium mechs will have lost so much of their armor they're indisputably at a severe disadvantage.

Honestly? That's usually all you really need to do to, place your enemies at a large disadvantage with forceful application of iron rain. If you can't seem to do a lot of damage, then you're doing something wrong.

Ask anybody who's seen my C4 in action. It's a true LRM Boat. No Artemis needed. Or wanted, actually, as a particularly bad loss can run me up for 140k already...


Edit: Because people will doubt my tale, I'll say this much ... 4 LRM15 launchers.

Stock armor or less on that, and that's with endosteel and an XL engine, unless you've foregone your 2 ML. OR perhaps you dropped engine size so your top speed is around 40kph? Whatever do you do when you get a Jenner?

[Dorque]

Violette, on 13 November 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

I'm very happy to see that I am not the only one who has noticed that LRMs are still very much in use, and that with great success.

You are absolutely not. In case it's passed YOUR notice, the "argument" in this thread is basically being carried by the same 3 people.

That is all, I'm out again.

[Scratx]

Kaijin, on 14 November 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Stock armor or less on that, and that's with endosteel and an XL engine, unless you've foregone your 2 ML. OR perhaps you dropped engine size so your top speed is around 40kph? Whatever do you do when you get a Jenner?

Stock armor, yes, IIRC, I'd have to doublecheck, but I can do 63kph with speed tweak. No jumpjets, have 2x Small Lasers for self defense and "out of ammo" combat. Which I always hope I never actually have to use but have.

If a jenner comes for me and survives into the LRM dead zone and nobody is alive or able to help me, I die. Duh. Price of being an LRM boat!

Fortunately, I do have the mobility to go look for help, so I am usually among the last to die on any match... lights are not usually my killers.

[Stymir]

LRMs are not supposed to be the be all end all. they are a support weapon. they are supposed to work in tandem with other weapons. and they still can be pretty devastating if used in a team. a LRM boat should never have been racking up the kind of kills like it was in closed beta. it better now than before its possible to get away from LRMs it still takes some skill but it is possible. i dropped with a couple of guys from my company last night and our LRM boat still got two kills thats not bad for a SUPPORT mech.

[Choombatta]

Stymir, on 14 November 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

LRMs are not supposed to be the be all end all. they are a support weapon. they are supposed to work in tandem with other weapons. and they still can be pretty devastating if used in a team. a LRM boat should never have been racking up the kind of kills like it was in closed beta. it better now than before its possible to get away from LRMs it still takes some skill but it is possible. i dropped with a couple of guys from my company last night and our LRM boat still got two kills thats not bad for a SUPPORT mech.

So what weapon should be "racking up the kills"?
Everything except LRMs?

I mean, Gauss Rifles are on "Support" Mechs, so you should have to use them in tandem with other weapon systems to kill something, correct?

What determines a "Support" Mech?
It's loadout? i.e. put any LRM launcher, you are a support Mech?
Is a 4 ERPPC Mech a "Support" Mech?

Is it the chassis? i.e. Catapults are "Support" Mechs.

Is it the way a player chooses to play? i.e. Sit in the back field and fire.
Is a Dragon with LRMs a "Support" Mech?

[Percival Hasek]

I'm done with LRM boats until they fix them. Paying a ton of c-bills for ammo that may as well be made by Nerf Company.

[Mavairo]

Choombatta, on 14 November 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Is a Dragon with LRMs a "Support" Mech?

A dragon with LRMs is Kill Bait. The Crotch Rockets don't like moving above terrain. No seriously, -before- artemis it's not uncommon to see LRM dragons unload their Crotch Rockets, a fair distance from terrain and still see the LRMs smack the terrain. A dragon using LRMs pretty much has to Direct Fire them. Which means planning moves excessively carefully to acquire a weapons lock. (versus being able to just Hit and Fade with ER larges and an AC2 or 2 cranking down range) Long range Dragons are best served with dumping the LRMs off, and putting streak2s or SRM4s in their place.

I have no problems with throwing LRMs down range in my cat. 2 LRM 15s correctly applied is enough to make people wet their pants if they aren't in a light mech. Then I have 2 MPLs and 2 Streak2s to keep people honest that try to close. My average damage is around 300 exhausting my LRM racks completely, if I've been using the missiles properly. 300 basically free or minimal risk to my own armor damage. That's more than enough to soften up a few targets. Then I start closing in with my brawler buddies, and bring my streaks and MPLs to bear. It's not uncommon for me to end a match with only maybe 1 or 2 kills, but 7 or 8 assists.

[Choombatta]

Mavairo, on 14 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

A dragon with LRMs is Kill Bait. The Crotch Rockets don't like moving above terrain. No seriously, -before- artemis it's not uncommon to see LRM dragons unload their Crotch Rockets, a fair distance from terrain and still see the LRMs smack the terrain. A dragon using LRMs pretty much has to Direct Fire them. Which means planning moves excessively carefully to acquire a weapons lock. (versus being able to just Hit and Fade with ER larges and an AC2 or 2 cranking down range) Long range Dragons are best served with dumping the LRMs off, and putting streak2s or SRM4s in their place.

I have no problems with throwing LRMs down range in my cat. 2 LRM 15s correctly applied is enough to make people wet their pants if they aren't in a light mech. Then I have 2 MPLs and 2 Streak2s to keep people honest that try to close. My average damage is around 300 exhausting my LRM racks completely, if I've been using the missiles properly. 300 basically free or minimal risk to my own armor damage. That's more than enough to soften up a few targets. Then I start closing in with my brawler buddies, and bring my streaks and MPLs to bear. It's not uncommon for me to end a match with only maybe 1 or 2 kills, but 7 or 8 assists.

You know exactly what I meant.
What makes something a "Support" only Mech?
Is it the chassis, the loadout, or the play style?

If it is the chassis, than a K2 is support?
If it is the loadout, than anything with LRMs is support?
If it is playstyle, than anything that does not "brawl" is support?